G-III Xi

Marsden

Keeper of the HoF Annex
Hall of Fame Staff
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
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Hello and welcome to the new Gauntlet for HoF III.


  • Mapsize: Standard
  • Difficulty: Warlord
  • Condition: Histographic


You must have your submisions in by 06/14/07. Good luck and have at it!
 
I wonder if I can manage this in time...I generally play these things slowly, and go through a lot of starts.
 
Oh, go ahead and try. I'm sure you can do it.:goodjob:
 
I was planning on improving my play before getting a historograhic victory and becoming quartermaster, but since I also want to try all the gauntlets, my plans changed. I already have a submission for this gauntlet that should make me quartermaster on the next update.:):woohoo:

I had one historographic victories in the past, but only to stop the ai's from winning on dg rather than milking for score. My submission for this scored 8309 points with the Iroquois and took just over 57 hours, although I kept the game running for some time while taking breaks.

I had read some threads about this type of victory in the past, but most were discussed from either higher difficulty levels, larger maps, or the vanilla version of civ. I ran mapfinder for a 60% pangaea warm, wet world with seven opponents and barbs on sedentary to hopefully speed the AA tech pace. It produced 6 maps in a short time and I chose one with a 1726 dom. limit, even though the start wasn't as exceptional as other maps. Since I had little experience with this type of game, I expected to need many starts and mapfinder runs to get a good start. Unfortunately, I didn't take notes or make any saves before 30AD, so this summary will be a little short on detail. Here's a screenshot of the start:
StandardWarlordStart.JPG

From general principles, I wanted an agricultural civ. to maximize pop with extra food. The commercial trait of the Iroquois was also appealing as well as their early UU. The plan was to push to the dom. limit quickly and connect luxuries for their happiness bonus. I also wanted the Pyramids for the pop boost and the ToA for its territoy boost. Since this was warlord, I foresaw little problem with the conquest phase, but also couldn't rely on the ai's to build these wonders as they would take too long. Early exploration revealed four more nearby cows, ivory and some wheat. I sent a settler to the nearest cow, early and worked on setting up some early settler factories with granaries and was soon off to a quick start. Nearby civs Germany, Ottomans, and Babylonians were in my expansion territory and as soon as I got HBR in trade, I started mixing MW's into my worker and settler builds without building any barracks. Wars would commence shortly after the Republic slingshot in 1025BC. I started on Germany first as they had three nearby luxuries that could be connected quickly. My early expansion had gone rather well for me, founding 25 cities and capturing one by 1000BC. I used the GA to build all the MW's I would need for conquest as well as switching two of my five settler-factories to the Pyramids and the ToA pre-build. The Pyramids were completed in 590BC and the ToA in 90BC. I got some tech in trade from the ai's to get out of the AA early and gifted some sci civs up to get the first-tier MA techs in trade while researching to MT. I didn't need cavs, but they helped to limit losses against the Persians who were the last civ to fall on the continent around 280AD.

Here's a screenshot of my empire in 30AD with 80 cities, 6 luxuries connected and a seventh to be connected soon, and the Germans, Ottos, Babs, and Egyptians already eliminated:
Iroquois30AD.JPG

The Japanese were still unmet on an island to the SE. At this point I had 989 domination tiles, 80 cities, 387 citizens, 114 workers, 17 slaves, and 12 settlers. Score was 678 and I was gaining 19 ppt. I finished the conquest of the Chinese and Persians by 300AD and also reduced the Japanese to a OCC prison on their island. I delayed research on education until the ToA pushed me to the dom. limit and I needed to destroy a few cities that would have low-growth to get me back under the limit. Research was 4-turn per tech for the rest of the game and I ended the expansion phase with 150 cities, built up to 238 workers and 45 slaves while railroading and irrigating every tile in my territory. I settled on hills and avoided settling on grasslands when I could and was 6-tiles from the dom. limit with on one tile unworked in my empire by 1000AD.

Here's a screenshot of 1000AD just a few turns before I joined my workforce to add 232 pop.:
Iroquois1000AD.JPG

My score at this point was 3139 gaining 27ppt. The above map is the final form as I only added one more city to push to within 2-tiles of the dom. limit. None of my border cities were producing culture so my empire would keep this shape for the rest of the game. The luxury slider was always set to keep all citizens happy. Other useful wonder builds were JSBach's, Adam Smith's, and Cure for Cancer. The land on the Japanese island wasn't great, but it was my only source of incense, so I had to keep it. I preferred to join my workers for a one turn boost of 66 points rather than take worker turns to clear the remaining jungles for a small boost in pop. as my few cities near mountains were also working grasslands. There was some nice remaining grassland on the central island, but swithching cities there would have meant a short reduction in pop. while harbors were rushed for only a small gain in pop. Only a handful of my worked tiles were sea tiles. I built aqueducts, hospitals and mass-transit in all cities that needed them. Marketplaces, courthouses, police stations, banks, and stock exchanges were built in all cities to maximize the boost from the commercial trait. My ppt was capped at 32 as I got near max. pop around 1400AD. All builds were complete by 1750AD and every city put on wealth for the remaining turns. My pop hovered around 2660 citizens as some cities had an odd amount of food and would lose and gain pop at a slow rate. My 45 slaves were kept busy cleaning pollution every-turn at an average of ~2 tiles per-turn so the end of the game didn't take as long as the beginning. I used SirPleb's date calc three times and it estimated my final score as 8266. As I finished with 45 future techs and a score of 8309, perhaps the scoring for future tech is as simple as one point each.

I went for the metros both for the extra commerce in the city square and also to minimize the food lost by settling on grasslands with a tighter build. Of my 2660 pop. about 1053 were specialists, so neither money or science was as issue. I actually researched every tech in the modern age at 0% science, the luxury-slider at 90% and still making a surplus. I stopped culture builds at the point Salamanca would go 20K in 2073 and my civ in 2054. I also built the 9 space ship parts and the UN in 1951 to time for a vote in 2050AD, although I needed another civ alive to have that victory option. I did this just for practice as I'm interested in the timed simultaneous victories that Bartleby and others often go for. This was also a good level to learn some things about a historographic victory as survival is not in doubt at this level. Hopefully, in a few months, I'll be ready to do this on a higher level and huge map to improve my historograpic ranking, but I'm happy this will make me a quartermaster now. This will be my last entry for this gauntlet and I think I was fortunate to get so many luxuries early and find a map with a fairly high dom. limit. I'll be interested to see others approach to this gauntlet and as always best wishes to all.:)
 
Good effort, and nicely written! :goodjob:

I started mapfinder before I left for work this morning, I'm going to do a set of Pangaea maps first, and see how I feel about an Archipelago after that.

I chose the Maya, and six Agri AI + one random. I don't plan on using ToA unless I get two SGLs, and I'll be looking to use as many sea tiles as I can reasonably get (especially if I go archi) but the thing about "free" sea tiles is you need to be sure you have enough happiness to be able to work them, viz., denser build at the coast.
 
Thanks, Bartleby.:)

I'm looking forward to your discussion on this. I purposefully avoided sea tiles based on some information I found in Maximizing your Score by SirPleb. I misunderstood the discussion about sea tiles not affecting your score. They do not count towards the domination limit or territory score, but I now see that the citizen working the tile does add to your score. I'll remember this in future milk runs. Best wishes on your run.:)
 
I started to take a look and I've realized that you can pretty easily figure out your potential score for a map.

If you assume that every citizen is happy and you can get about 1 specialist per every 3 tiles (irrigated grass with rails can support 1, but mountains can support 0 and irrigated plains with rails need 2 to support an extra specialist, while sea/coast can't support any specialists - food bonuses change everything) I picked .33 specialist per tile from one of my games.

You get a potential score of:

(Tiles workable * 3.33) * difficulty Sea tiles (gives happy citizens without tiles) can change that some, but not a huge amount.

You can't get particularly higher than that - future techs will help - but since your total score is an average of all scores to date, all you can do is get closer and closer to that per turn max.
 
Well, AT, I hope that means you'll be trying this gauntlet.:)

I found it to be a good map size and level to learn some things about historographic victories. A good game shouldn't take too long and I think it could increase your ranking as well.

Your formula does seem useful as plugging in the numbers for my game gives a very close estimate of my internal game score as given by SirPleb's Calculator for some date/score things. It might be simpler though to just look for a map with a high dom. limit and use a strategy to get to max. pop. and territory as quick as possible. Slow arrival to the per turn max. would seem to be as damaging to your final score as having a bad map. I'm no expert on this though, so maybe I'm wrong. Good luck if you try this gauntlet.:)
 
yup. I will have a game for this. Trying as sumeria - caught a start with 3 cows immediately veiwable, then caught an SGL for mysticism which I used for pyramids.

Caught another SGL later which I used for ToA, which helped me get to near the Dom limit by 450 AD or so. It's now 560 AD - I'm in the IA, railing and building hospitals in the core, dropping down more settlers in the corrupt regions, 11 turns to rep parts (400 workers really cut down on my ability to research!!).

need to go back to middle ages to pick up bach's and smith's.
 
The formula is really just an approximation of what your potential is, more than anything. You can't actually ever get to that, but you should be able to get close.

That multiplier (the .33 part) should be heavily dependent on world type, climate and age. I don't know whether it should be, in general, .25, .33, .5 or what.
 
I played a game (Maya Archipelago) to 500 AD then had a week of Civ fatigue. I picked it up again over the weekend and played through to 1120 AD. I'm going to be rearranging a few cities and the workers have some...work ahead of them but I hope to finish in time.
Score stands at ~2.5 k, I doubt I'll reach 8k. I probably should have been more patient waiting for a good Pangaea.
 
I thought arch was supposed to be better than pangea?
 
True, Archipelago has a higher Domination Limit, but it takes (me, at least) a lot longer to reach it. A full slate of luxuries may need to wait until Navigation.
 
I see, that was why I favored Pangea in the past.
 
I think, on lower levels, pangea will end up better, because you can get pyramids and pyramids drives growth faster.

On higher levels, you can't get pyramids anyway, so might as well go for the max population.
 
That's true, level has a lot to do with strategy choices.

So on warlord, handbuilding the pyramids would be best? or no? Of course, an SGL would be better, but...
 
I would say yes to handbuilding the Pyramids. I built granaries first getting my settler/worker factories set up. When the growth rate was acceptable, I then swithced one to the Pyramids and one to the ToA. Of course an SGL would be great, but there is no chance of losing the build to warlord ai. On higher levels I would probably "encourage" a neighbor to build it and then take it from them.
 
Handbuilt would be better than no pyramids, but for a full-blown milkrun you'd probably be better to ditch any map where you haven't got an SGL by, say, Philosophy. Having said that, I have a tendency to stick to games I should give up.
 
I think, on lower levels, pangea will end up better, because you can get pyramids and pyramids drives growth faster.
Just a few comments glancing at this thread:

1. If you want to maximize score at any level, IMO, Archipelago is the way to go because the Dom Limit is potentially much higher than a Pangaea map.......But it's also a lot more work!

2. Today I submitted a Small Map, Chieftain Level with DL of 1383 and a Final Score of 3778. Thus 2.73 points per tile (excluding Sea tiles).

3. This game, if accepted, will beat #1 Histographic on Small Map: Chieftain, Warlord and Regent levels! (Would also beat #1 on Standard, Warlord level.....No wonder Marsden picked that for the Gauntlet!) In my game, I decided to "Run out the Clock" with over 300 turns left. ;)

4. Could have squeezed out a few more points by relocating cities to more lucrative areas and eliminating some cities on Plains & Grassland tiles, but I already had almost 300 hours in the game and realized it would only be a few points for a lot of work. I sure hope that game is accepted into the HOF!

I thought the HOF was updated on the 16th of the month? :)
 
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