Map (Scenario) Advice

TravellingHat · May 15, 2007

Greeting Fans

I'm going to undertake a map for myself and a few friends, and having about as much experience in such things as I have in planning manned missions to Mars, I'm in need of some advice.

Firstly: For performance reasons, I'm going to use a large map, but I want to get as many civs in as possible. The default for a large map game is 8 civs, allowing for Mercurian/Infernal spawning. Is this the limit, and if not, what is the the upper limit still allowing for Basium and Hyborem (both of whom are essential IMO).

Secondly: Is there anyway of stipulating what factions are on the map, but let players select their own leaders (random for AI civs)? Or is the leader set as part of the scenario?

Thirdly: I want to create two barbarian cities. Would I be right in assuming the game will balance "wandering" barbarians against the number of barbarian units already on the map? I want players to have a hard time, but not be utterly swamped.

Fourthly: I have found very early waves of lizardmen can be game destroying, so I'd like to limit them. Will their ruins only appear in jungles (e.g. limiting amount of jungle or land access to it as a means of control)?

Thanks in advance

UTH

Kael · May 15, 2007

TravellingHat said:
Greeting Fans

I'm going to undertake a map for myself and a few friends, and having about as much experience in such things as I have in planning manned missions to Mars, I'm in need of some advice.

Firstly: For performance reasons, I'm going to use a large map, but I want to get as many civs in as possible. The default for a large map game is 8 civs, allowing for Mercurian/Infernal spawning. Is this the limit, and if not, what is the the upper limit still allowing for Basium and Hyborem (both of whom are essential IMO).

16 is the most (because 18 is maximum amount of players and you want to leave 2 open for hyborem and basium). But keep in mind that if you go above 8 you will leave less and less room available for Hyborem.

Secondly: Is there anyway of stipulating what factions are on the map, but let players select their own leaders (random for AI civs)? Or is the leader set as part of the scenario?

No, leaders are set by the scenario.

Thirdly: I want to create two barbarian cities. Would I be right in assuming the game will balance "wandering" barbarians against the number of barbarian units already on the map? I want players to have a hard time, but not be utterly swamped.

Yes, the game won't free spawn barbarians beyond a certain limit. But barbarian cities and monster lairs dont have such a limit and will keep kicking them out.

Fourthly: I have found very early waves of lizardmen can be game destroying, so I'd like to limit them. Will their ruins only appear in jungles (e.g. limiting amount of jungle or land access to it as a means of control)?

Yes, they will spawn only in jungles. Im also adding a tag for scenario makers in 0.22 that you can set that will keep the game from plaving any monster lairs (so you can set the ones you want where you want them).

onedreamer · May 15, 2007

1) I think the limit of civs per map is not dependant on the size. The limit is 18 AFAIK, so you should start with 16 if you want Hyborem and Basium.
2) I think it should be possible, but in all honesty, I don't know !
3) I think there is a limit in the total number of barbarian units present on the map.
4) yes, that would work.

TravellingHat · May 15, 2007

Thanks for the rapid replies chaps. I'll stop banging my head trying to figure out how to set the civ with no specified leader now!

Kael - congratulations to you and the rest of the team on an outstanding piece of work.

Nikis-Knight · May 15, 2007

Yes, they will spawn only in jungles. Im also adding a tag for scenario makers in 0.22 that you can set that will keep the game from plaving any monster lairs (so you can set the ones you want where you want them).

This is great becausee my biggest problem with making a FfH fire map was that every time I opened it up, more ruins and barrows would be placed! (Since you have to actually start the game to enter WB, afaik)

TravellingHat · May 18, 2007

Right, the map's coming on nicely, but have encountered a few minor problems. At this point, I may be wandering into general scenario/modding territory rather than FfH stuff. If so, could someone direct me to the right forum?

I've had a quick look at the map file using a text editor, and it seems to be a tagged text file (XML - not my area of expertise), so I'm assuming I can edit this. I don't know my way around this file, though, so please bear that in mind of you chose to reply with guidance.

Anyway, these are my current bugbears:

1) All civs are aware of each other from the outset. Some can also see various parts of the world they shouldn't. I think this is because I dumped them all together in a corner of the map while I was drafting the rest of the world (so they became aware of each other when I started the game to get into world builder, and that contact subsequently got recorded in the save file). How can I make them ignorant of everything except what they see at the start of the game?

2) Watchtowers, barrows etc are spawning, but I get no goodie huts.

3) When I start a game, I get some resources randomly spawning around the world, wich I don't want (having deliberately limited certain resources by region, or to be exceptionally rare). I haven't actually finished drafting the world, so it still has swathes of empty land, so was wondering if this is a balance thing (e.g. detects a lack of gems, so spawns gems in suitable locations). Can I turn this off, or will it abate when I've fleshed the world out?

4) I positioned some barbarians on strategically important hills, but as soon as the game starts they abandon these positions and head straight for their nearest city (which is actually some distance off). Is there any way to make them hold position until someone comes to oust them (as they do in cities), or is this just the way their AI works?

Any help (or redirection to the proper forum), much appreciated! As a side note, hats off again to you proper modders/writers - I think my own effort is pretty modest, but it gives a glimpse of the sheer volume of work you guys must have undertaken.

Thanks in advance.

UTH

50C107061CA7 · May 18, 2007

TravellingHat said:
Right, the map's coming on nicely, but have encountered a few minor problems. At this point, I may be wandering into general scenario/modding territory rather than FfH stuff. If so, could someone direct me to the right forum?

I've had a quick look at the map file using a text editor, and it seems to be a tagged text file (XML - not my area of expertise), so I'm assuming I can edit this. I don't know my way around this file, though, so please bear that in mind of you chose to reply with guidance.

Anyway, these are my current bugbears:

1) All civs are aware of each other from the outset. Some can also see various parts of the world they shouldn't. I think this is because I dumped them all together in a corner of the map while I was drafting the rest of the world (so they became aware of each other when I started the game to get into world builder, and that contact subsequently got recorded in the save file). How can I make them ignorant of everything except what they see at the start of the game?

2) Watchtowers, barrows etc are spawning, but I get no goodie huts.

3) When I start a game, I get some resources randomly spawning around the world, wich I don't want (having deliberately limited certain resources by region, or to be exceptionally rare). I haven't actually finished drafting the world, so it still has swathes of empty land, so was wondering if this is a balance thing (e.g. detects a lack of gems, so spawns gems in suitable locations). Can I turn this off, or will it abate when I've fleshed the world out?

4) I positioned some barbarians on strategically important hills, but as soon as the game starts they abandon these positions and head straight for their nearest city (which is actually some distance off). Is there any way to make them hold position until someone comes to oust them (as they do in cities), or is this just the way their AI works?

Any help (or redirection to the proper forum), much appreciated! As a side note, hats off again to you proper modders/writers - I think my own effort is pretty modest, but it gives a glimpse of the sheer volume of work you guys must have undertaken.

Thanks in advance.

UTH

WBS, in depth

1) Open WBS in text editor; remove all instances of "TeamReveal";

2) Don't think WBS controls goodie hut spawning. I think they only randomly spawn at the start of a game; once you've entered the WorldBuilder, it's too late. Maybe this would be a good option: enable goodie hut spawning in the WBS.

3) The game looks to see if a map has enough of a key resource; if not, that resource randomly spawns. I think the limit depends on map size.

4) This is an AI thing, I believe. Will setting the unit's AI to CITY_DEFENSE (on a non-city tile) produce the desired effect? Never tried this. Otherwise, you may be out of luck: I don't know if an AI exists for defending chokepoints and the like. Another good option, I suppose.

TravellingHat · May 18, 2007

Thanks for the advice and the link.

Bit of a pain about the goody huts. I must read further on that and see if I can find some way around it.

I'll also check out your suggestion about the AI city defense script. If that works, great, if not, such is life.

Thanks again.

snarko · May 18, 2007

UNITAI_UNKNOWN makes the AI do nothing with the unit.

TravellingHat · May 18, 2007

Thanks Snarko.

I have a mountain pass with forts on hills, and I'd rather like the orcs to stay and guard them. I don't want to have to send them to troll pits like the last lot! Orcs - you just can't get the staff, these days

EDIT (19/05/07)

Well, the civ contacts, map reveals and wandering mobs are fixed (the UNITAI_UNKNOWN did the trick, Snarko). Still no joy on the goodie huts, though. If I do find a way, I'll post it here for those who may find it useful. Thanks for the tips, chaps. Many frustrations have now been removed.

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