Peace with France?

Hyronymus · May 18, 2007

With Napoleon beaten back severely I guess my turnchat will face a peace offer from Napoleon. I want to know what you consider a fair peace treaty. My guess is that Marseille and Paris are the only 2 cities Napoleon has left. Orleans is always the 2nd city for the French namely etc.

.

Do we go after Marseille ourselves or do we take Marseille through peace negotiations? Do we want :gold:

from Napoleon, and if per turn or a stash at once (or both). Tell me what you want and I'll do my best in the peace negotiations if they come during my turnchat.

Chieftess · May 18, 2007

Hyronymus said:
With Napoleon beaten back severely I guess my turnchat will face a peace offer from Napoleon. I want to know what you consider a fair peace treaty. My guess is that Marseille and Paris are the only 2 cities Napoleon has left. Orleans is always the 2nd city for the French namely etc. .

I love it when a plan comes together! :goodjob:

(For the newer users -- that's an old quote a former moderator liked to use) I'm sure glad we were able to upgrade those axes to bonus vs. melee before the war started! I haven't seen too much of the progess, but it might be nice if we took all of France.

Conroe · May 18, 2007

Hyronymus said:
My guess is that Marseille and Paris are the only 2 cities Napoleon has left. Orleans is always the 2nd city for the French namely etc. .

France has 3 cities; you didn't note Tours. I would suggest finishing Napoleon off. He's never going to be a good friend after this war and a little bit of gold isn't going to be worth the headaches down the road.

Chieftess said:
I love it when a plan comes together! (For the newer users -- that's an old quote a former moderator liked to use)

Showing your youth there, Chieftess! :lol:

Its actually an old quote from an old 1980's TV series called the A-Team.

dutchfire · May 18, 2007

Conroe said:
France has 3 cities; you didn't note Tours. I would suggest finishing Napoleon off. He's never going to be a good friend after this war and a little bit of gold isn't going to be worth the headaches down the road.

Showing your youth there, Chieftess! Its actually an old quote from an old 1980's TV series called the A-Team.

2 techs, and 110 gold (lumpsum + gpt) is nothing to sneeze at. I'd say we take the deal, and try to recover economically.

ordinaryguy · May 18, 2007

Wow he must be pretty desperate to offer *this* kind of deal. Isn't that a sign of weakness? I say we should be able to take out all his cities except Paris, as I think that most of his troops will probably be busy defending the capital instead of his other cities.

Although, I must agree that the deal that is offered to us is pretty good and attractive.

dutchfire · May 18, 2007

ordinaryguy said:
Wow he must be pretty desperate to offer *this* kind of deal. Isn't that a sign of weakness? I say we should be able to take out all his cities except Paris, as I think that most of his troops will probably be busy defending the capital instead of his other cities.

Although, I must agree that the deal that is offered to us is pretty good and attractive.

We're able to do it, we can't afford it though.

Conroe · May 18, 2007

dutchfire said:
2 techs, and 110 gold (lumpsum + gpt) is nothing to sneeze at. I'd say we take the deal, and try to recover economically.

Move the research slider up to 50% and both of those techs are done in 7 turns. If you make peace and re-declare in 10 turns, you are going to take a diplomatic hit from Rome and Germany. They both like France more. And if you decide to not re-declare you will be stuck with that "yearning for the motherland" happiness penalty in your captured cities.

It would be one thing if there was a pressing need for any of those techs. But there isn't. I'd still say to finish him off.

dutchfire · May 18, 2007

Conroe said:
Move the research slider up to 50% and both of those techs are done in 7 turns. If you make peace and re-declare in 10 turns, you are going to take a diplomatic hit from Rome and Germany. They both like France more. And if you decide to not re-declare you will be stuck with that "yearning for the motherland" happiness penalty in your captured cities.

It would be one thing if there was a pressing need for any of those techs. But there isn't. I'd still say to finish him off.

Well, we're at 30% science now, and running deficit! And that is without counting the upkeep cost for Orleans, and the two cities we're about to found.
Napoleon is no longer a threat to us, our own economy is. We should fill up some more land, and knock Napoleon out later, when we can afford it.

Conroe · May 18, 2007

dutchfire said:
Well, we're at 30% science now, and running deficit!

Yes, I know. I looked at the save. The position of your research slider does NOT determine how well your economy is doing. The actual underlying numbers are more important. And right now the economy is able to sustain itself.

My guess is there is already enough troops in the field to finish off Napoleon. Therefore start building some courthouses to lower city maintenance. I'd also switch over to slavery so that they can be :whipped:

-- this has the added benefit of lowering the civics costs. Both of these will reduce the two biggest expenses.

The short term obstacles that you raise are all valid. But my point is there are ways to overcome those obstacles. In the long term, though, I feel it would be better to finish off Napoleon.

dutchfire · May 18, 2007

Well, the main problem I see with continuing the war is that it will give both Rome and Germany some time to expand further, and developing more. That might make them stronger, making it harder for us to knock them out in the future. The away cost we'll be paying will be another big problem. The only problem with leaving Napoleon for now is that we will get some diplomatic penalties later on for attacking him. But these penalties aren't that important IMO, as we probably won't stay peaceful with them for too long.

We also might want to use a few military units to attack the barbarians in the north.

And we could use Polytheism now, to speed up the road to Literature and the Great Library.

Falcon02 · May 18, 2007

Right now I'm inclined to agree with the peace deal, biggest though concern would be Orleans flipping.

If we really want to we can attack him again later, he'll never be the same.

ravensfire · May 18, 2007

The deal looks good, and we've achieved our goals. Nappy is now a petty dictator of a third-rate nation. His foolish decisions have lead France into ruin.

Our troops fought valiantly, defeating the French again and again. It's time to give them a rest, to let them enjoy the fruits of their efforts, to relax and recover.

Our nation has been on a war footing, and our economy has suffered. Our people can see what we're capable of becoming, and the power that future brings. We need to focus on the development of our resources and of our people. Take the time to consolidate our gains and territory, and bring the benefits of our nation's wealth to all of our citizens!

-- Ravensfire

(translation - take the peace deal, shift focus to economic development)

grant2004 · May 18, 2007

I agree it's time for peace we've defeated Napoleon so completely I'd be amazed if he is able to return to a threatening position for the rest of the game. At the start I wanted to push all the way to Paris, but I'm not sure that we can afford such a move, that would be 6 more cities (including the barbarian city and the 2 settlers we have)

We need to focus production on improving our cities and getting rid of that nasty deficit, while raising our spending on technology. Right now we have a small tech lead which will allow us to last a while in the current bad situation, but we need to fix things before we loose that lead Germany is expanding rapidly and we don't want to look an easy target to him.

DaveShack · May 18, 2007

Moderator Action: Thread split to draw attention to the peace discussion

Joe Harker · May 18, 2007

I agree that peace is needed, marsaile isn't worth taking (might be worth razing though) We need to focus on getting more commerce and therefore more science from our cities

Joe Harker · May 18, 2007

By the way i don't suppose it is worth taking orleans (or raze it), because it does give us a canal to the western sea without ships having to go round france

edit, looked at the wrong save!!! (oops!)

Bertie · May 18, 2007

I think Conroe has put forth an extremely powerful and well-reasoned argument for why we should continue the war. Remember, IN THIS THREAD we voted to continue the war until Napoleon was destroyed. Stopping now (and restarting the war later) not only gives us a Diplo hit, it's grossly inefficient. Why give Nappy time to regroup or enlist an ally? Our economy isn't doing well at the moment but part of the reason is we're building settlers and infrastructure willy-nilly. Let's concentrate on winning the war; then we can concentrate on becoming an economic and scientific powerhouse.

Falcon02 · May 18, 2007

Well on the point of the "War Goals" thread, any peace agreement should be polled, and should that peace agreement be approved with a poll it would overrule the previous war goals poll.

Chieftess · May 18, 2007

Conroe said:
France has 3 cities; you didn't note Tours. I would suggest finishing Napoleon off. He's never going to be a good friend after this war and a little bit of gold isn't going to be worth the headaches down the road.

Showing your youth there, Chieftess! Its actually an old quote from an old 1980's TV series called the A-Team.

I know that.

I was just quoting someone who quoted that. (I used to watch the A-Team).

dutchfire · May 19, 2007

Another problem with continuing the war is the war unhappiness that is already hurting us, and will only increase over time.

Peace with France?

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