CBob03 Germans in Tu-tus

CommandoBob

AbstractArt
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May 18, 2005
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Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
This game is Over with a Cultural Victory in 1650 AD; Monarch Difficulty; 100K Cultural Victory; Huge Map; Pangea Landmass. Post 2 is the story. Post 3 is the real world back story. Post 4 is the game info. Post 5 is the starting save.

Current Roster:
  1. CommandoBob
  2. ansar (lurking)
  3. Tribute (lurking)
  4. SipTheSoup (lurking)
  5. Elephantium
  6. mr_2_you (lurking)
  7. TheOverseer714


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Bismarck was acting silly. And singing. And sober.


‘We all live on a yellow shiny disk,
Yellow shiny disk,
Yellow shiny disk.
We all live on a yellow shiny disk,
Yellow shiny disk,
Yellow shiny disk.’


‘Otto! What has gotten into you, singing such a ridiculous song. Are you ill?’

‘No, dearest Johanna, wife of my youth, I am not ill. Nor am I drunk. I’ve just been considering a different kind of German nation.’

‘Oh?’

‘Too often we Germans are seen as stern, relentless and humorless. The world forgets that Germany has given more to the world than a mere crippled paper hanger with a toothbrush mustache. No, for many, many years we created harmony and melody. Waltzes; not goose steps. Operas, not dive bombers. We made beautiful music for a long time, and that, sadly, has been forgotten.

‘And you are going to do what?’

‘I want to have a huge world and show everyone in it the superior culture of the German people. Every city will be named after a composer, German composers first, of course. And since not every great composer is lucky enough to be born German, some cities will be named in honor of other great composers, regardless of their homeland.

‘In due time the whole world will acknowledge the superiority of the German culture.’

‘Yes, Otto, but what if you can build Panzers before that happens?’

‘Then we shall use the Panzer to bring the glorious German culture to more people. Some will resist our way of greatness; a few will actively oppose us. But in the end it will not matter.’

Johanna had been married to Otto for many years and three children. She knew his moods. She stared, sighed and finally spoke.

‘Otto, if you want to impress the world with German culture, please, don’t wear your pink bunny slippers with a green tutu. The colors clash.’
 
I haven’t tried for a cultural victory at Monarch. The Germans aren’t real suited for this, being Militaristic and Scientific. Libraries and Universities will be cheaper, true, but temples, cathedrals and colosseums are full price. With their Modern Era UU, the Germans don’t get a lot of play time.

So, with only a few advantages for a cultural win, playing Germany will be a challenge. I opted for a huge-pangea map to allow for some warring and to give everyone an opportunity to engage in pointy-stick cultural expansion. I don’t expect this game to have a lot of fighting (which adds to the game hours) but do expect it to take a bit longer in game turns, given the map size. On a continents map we would just conquer our landmass and pretty much coast to victory. With pangea we will have to watch our neighbors closely and be alert to AI treachery.

We won’t be building the Temple of Artemis in this game. We’ll let our other builds and expansions take care of our borders. All other wonders are acceptable and can be built.

In addition to not being well suited for a culture victory, there is just this mental image of a German General Field Marshall trading in his Army baton for a Conductor’s baton and leading the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in a rousing rendition of Dixie. :eek:
 
Overview
This is meant to focus on the cultural aspects of the game, such as they are, and, as such, is more slanted toward builders than warriors. Some warfare will occur, but it is secondary to winning by culture.

Civ III Conquests 1.22f
Victory: 100, 000 points of culture
Level: Monarch
Opponents: random
Barbarians: raging
Land mass: Pangea
Water: 60%
Map size: huge
Age: 4 Billion
Climate: normal
Temperature: temperate
Normal victory conditions are ‘On’.

My mental plan is a late culture rush strategy. This will require a lot of cities, each building or rushing the five culture buildings: temple. library, cathedral, colosseum and university. My plan may not become reality; we’ll have to see how the game plays out.

The first turnset will be 20 turns and then will drop to 10 turns each. At some later point we may have to drop down to 5 turns when the turns get real long to play and long.

Lurkers are always welcome.

Gameplay

I know my schedule and have learned that I cannot keep the 24/72 pace that others can. Work, family, other interests and other SGs serve to limit the time I can give to any one game. I also encourage discussion, especially early discussion, of game plans and ideas.

So I will hold to a rather relaxed 48 hrs to post a get and 96 hours to play or give an update on the current game events. Skips and swaps are allowed and encouraged when needed. And if everyone is busy and the game sets for a bit (holidays, mostly) that is fine too.

This is not a training game and it will not be a conquest game. Don’t let your difficulty level stop you from joining.

City Names
The default German names are NOT acceptable. Remember, we want to demonstrate our culture. So we will name our cities after composers. German ones first, if you can think of one, and then others. Some composers are well known by just their last name (Beethoven, for one) and that is all that is needed. Others may need a first and last name.

And be careful. A city named Beethoven and one named von Beethoven and a third called Ludwig von Beethoven are all different cities, but mentally would be hard to keep separate.

If a person is really clever, they can combine the composer and a noted work into the city name. And here again, Beethoven’s Fifth and Beethoven’s V are just a little too similar.

Note too, that Beethoven’s Fifth and Beethoven’s Symphony No 5 in C-Minor Opus 67 are both the same work but the city names are very different.
:D

CommandoBob’s Semi-Standards
These things have helped me to focus my attention better on the game mechanics. I will be doing these things. I ask that anyone who wants to join be willing to do these their first two turnsets. The key is willing, not required.

Pre turn Strategy Post
This can be brief or elaborate, depending on the state of the game. We plan to win by culture but we will have some war along the way, so mostly this would focus on plans for the current turn.

Military Strength
Even aiming for a cultural victory, we need to keep track of our military, in case our neighbors are active.

At the start and again at the end of a turnset, just report what our current military strength is. This can be gotten from the military advisor or from CivAssist II. It would look like this:

03 Warriors
16 Knights
10 Mace

The breakdown of conscript/regular/veteran/elite is not really needed here. I tend to just order the units as the Military Advisor does, so the order of what units comes first tends to change through out a game.

City Builds
For each city we have, list their name, size, growth in turns and build in turns. It would look like this:

London (4) grows in 4, spear in 2.
Paris (6) zero growth, temple in 4.


City Build Recap
This is just a list of what builds are being built by which city. The list would contain the name of the build, the count of how many are being built, followed by the names of the cities building that item. It would look like this:

Temple [2] (Paris and Rome)
rSpear [1] (London)
vSpear [3] (Mecca, Trondheim and Athens)

At some point in time both these city lists lose their importance. For this game, we can ignore the City Build list when we get over twenty cities. I think the Recap would be good until we get around forty cities. After that they take more time than they are worth, especially since by the time we get to forty cities they will be making mostly the culture buildings anyway.

These lists do take extra time, but they have helped me to see things I might otherwise have missed, like building too many aqueducts or too few settlers. So I would ask that the players try these for two turnsets.

And of course, all of these can be combined into one post. I tend to review the cities and military and then develop some plans for the turns that are upcoming.

And just to say it again, these semi-standards are suggestions. They have helped me and they might help you. Do not let them stop you for signing up.

Unit Naming
I find it helpful to have workers and slaves named, since I try to focus a good deal of attention on worker moves and improvements. When these units are named it makes it easier to identify individual units. If I am cycling through the units (as I tend to do), I can mentally select Worker66 as a book mark for when I’ve cycled through all the units.

I really don’t care how the units are named: Worker01 = 01Worker = WorkerA = AWorker = WorkerSteve = SteveTheWorker = LurkerWorker; they all are fine by me. Slaves I would prefer to be prefixed with the word ‘Slave’. So Slave01 = SlaveA = SlaveDave = SlaveOfThunderfall are all good names.
 
4000 BC Germany
4000_BC_GermansInTutusStart.jpg


Four BGs (standing on one), a bunch of rivers, lots of grassland and way south of the equator. :)
Lacks any luxuries. :(

We'll find luxuries soon enough, and at Monarch the first 2 citizens in a city are content. We'll manage.

And the save is >>HERE<<.
 
I'll join, CB. :)

(I have to leave next week to Puerto Rico so I don't know where to be placed on the roster, though).
 
Ok. So, here are some beginning questions:

Questions
  • Why not the Temple of Artemis?
  • Are we also going to build temples?
  • Will we raze the city with the Temple of Artemis?
  • Do we intend to peacefully win Culturally or Agressively win by crippling (by conquering) everyone else and then wait until 100k?
I've never played a 100k game either, so I guess were both learning. :)
 
I'll join, CB. :)

(I have to leave next week to Puerto Rico so I don't know where to be placed on the roster, though).
Good, I'll add you.

Don't worry about the roster yet. I expect the first week we'll still be hashing out the game and planning our strategy and such.


Ok. So, here are some beginning questions:

Questions
  • Why not the Temple of Artemis?
  • Are we also going to build temples?
  • Will we raze the city with the Temple of Artemis?
  • Do we intend to peacefully win Culturally or Agressively win by crippling (by conquering) everyone else and then wait until 100k?
I've never played a 100k game either, so I guess were both learning. :)
My understanding of the Temple of Artemis is that it gives culture to each city. And I just don't want to have that kind of help in this game. I want the culture to be 'natural', that is, from temples, libraries and such. I don't want to build a wonder that gives culture to each city. I won't learn anything that way.

Now, if I misunderstand how the Temple of Artemis works, then I'll change our guidelines and we can build it.

We will be building temples, cathedrals and such. Oh, yeah; we'll need them. No way would I try to win a culture victroy with just geek culture (though it sounds interesting!)

I expect that we'll have to engage the pointy-stick to expand our borders. I'm just not sure how far we'll have to extend the borders. We will probably get to a comfortable size and focus on culture builds and little else. We'll need to keep an eye on our rivals and keep them at half of our culture to ensure the earliest possible win. But all this is based on my cultural victories at Chieftain in PTW. Our mileage may vary.
 
Good, I'll add you.

Don't worry about the roster yet. I expect the first week we'll still be hashing out the game and planning our strategy and such.
Ok, then.
My understanding of the Temple of Artemis is that it gives culture to each city. And I just don't want to have that kind of help in this game. I want the culture to be 'natural', that is, from temples, libraries and such. I don't want to build a wonder that gives culture to each city. I won't learn anything that way.

Now, if I misunderstand how the Temple of Artemis works, then I'll change our guidelines and we can build it.
Well, it puts a free temple in all of your towns/cities/etc.

Unfortunately, like all wonders that give you a free "X", the temples dissapear after learning Education (it expires the ToA). We probably don't want to build it though, since the temples also wouldnt double in culture after 1000 years.
We will be building temples, cathedrals and such. Oh, yeah; we'll need them. No way would I try to win a culture victroy with just geek culture (though it sounds interesting!)
Heh, it's going to feel weird building Cathedrals and Colosseums. :crazyeye:
I expect that we'll have to engage the pointy-stick to expand our borders. I'm just not sure how far we'll have to extend the borders. We will probably get to a comfortable size and focus on culture builds and little else. We'll need to keep an eye on our rivals and keep them at half of our culture to ensure the earliest possible win. But all this is based on my cultural victories at Chieftain in PTW. Our mileage may vary.
Okey-dokey. :)
 
A free temple in every city, town, hovel, and wide-spot-in-the-road. And Education kills it, along with the Great Library.

Let's leave it in as an option. It is not as big of a help as I thought it might be.

I'll change the game guidelines and strike through the part about the Temple of Artemis.
 
I would like to join too.

The late game culture rush does not prevent us from actively building libraries, universities and temples, right?

And how should we play this?
1. We could be builders.
2. We could be early game warmongers and beat techs or GLib out of the AI.
3. We could build then make war at around Chivalry or Military Tradition.
4. We could have cultural warfare to flip AI towns. (Using ICS near AI towns, of course.)

I'd pick the 3rd option since is most fun.
 
I would like to join too.

The late game culture rush does not prevent us from actively building libraries, universities and temples, right?
You're in. Glad to be playing with you again. :high5:

We can build things as 'normal'.
And how should we play this?
1. We could be builders.
2. We could be early game warmongers and beat techs or GLib out of the AI.
3. We could build then make war at around Chivalry or Military Tradition.
4. We could have cultural warfare to flip AI towns. (Using ICS near AI towns, of course.)
I'd pick the 3rd option since is most fun.
Good question.

Here's how I think the game will flow. We'll do the normal early expansion, which means settlers for new cities and libraries for tech. We'll claim some luxuries and beat back the heathen, the barbarian and the non-German. We'll build up our empire and military and watch the AIs fight each other. Life is good.

And then at some point we say 'Culture Rush!' and focus not so much on military as new cities that need military to defend them. We'll spam the cities out and rush (either by cash or whipping) temples, libraries and such. We'll shoehorn new cities between the AIs and on tundras. And each turn we add those little culture points to our total, a point here and a point there, and finally reach 100,000 (actually more on pangea, around 120K ?)

We can build the culture buildings at any time prior to this. But once we begin the Culture Rush, those five would be the primary building emphasis. If we get attacked at this stage, we'll just put flowers on our spears and maces (to indicate our elitist refinement) as we make messy red holes in the bodies of our opponents (to indicate they picked on the wrong civ).

We are aiming for a cultural victory, but we ain't gonna take nonsense off nobody.
:wavey: or :trouble: ; we can be both.
 
I would like to join this, if that would be possibly. Later on, I could see the turns being atleast a hour in length, between wars (hopefully :hammer:) and MMing all our cities.

I like a fairly normal expansion/buildup with a few minor wars, then MilTrad rolls around, and then go whack something. Lots of something. Emerge in a dominant spot with something like 40&#37; of the landmass, then just build culture in an ICS spacing, using plenty of whips and Civil Engineers. Sort of like any 100k game.

And wouldnt we need 160k culture on a huge map in order to win?


edit edit: reread all the things you wanna do, and building sounds find and exciting. But we are going to need a good amount of room for building all our cities.
 
lurker's comment: Lurker #2 checking in.

As SipTheSoup mentioned, you'll need 160k for cultural victory on a huge map in Conquests. You'll almost certainly have to do some conquering to get there by a reasonable date, but a purely aggressive approach won't be necessary.
 
lurker's comment: Lurker #2 checking in.
Lurk away, my friend, lurk away!
I would like to join this, if that would be possibly. Later on, I could see the turns being atleast a hour in length, between wars (hopefully :hammer:) and MMing all our cities.
...
edit edit: reread all the things you wanna do, and building sounds find and exciting. But we are going to need a good amount of room for building all our cities.
You're in, SipTheSoup!

You are right, we will need a lot of room. And in a lot of ways this will be your kind of normal game. It will take a lot of game turns but each turn, after we establish ourselves, will be fairly quick since there won't be a lot of units to move.

But by having multiple eyes looking at the game, we'll move and improve and expand a lot faster than a solo game (well, than my solo games, anyway :D ). So a cultural victory by 1800 AD could happen on a map this size.
 
Check the 5th post, we already have our start, plus a little minianalysis of it.
A very mini analysis.

If that is a BG we are standing on we need to move, but where?

We would want to stay on this side (the south side) of the river and not move onto a BG, so we either move NW or SE. Or we move our worker first, save the game, discuss and decide. Both NW and SE are next to rivers, so growth is no problem. SE is adjacent to two rivers, which might help if we are attacked across the rivers. It also has mountains, which will take 9WT to road and 18WT to mine, so they only offer us some defense. NW looks better, lots of grass to grow on and 3 BG inside the initial 9 tiles.

Any thoughts on worker turns for the first twenty turns?
 
It will take a lot of game turns but each turn, after we establish ourselves, will be fairly quick since there won't be a lot of units to move.
lurker's comment: Grabbing lurker spot #3. I love culture games, but the time it takes to MM a mature empire is enormous...even on a standard map. I'll be watching with great interest and hoping to learn how to make it "quick". ;)
 
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