Rise & Fall of The Mughals

[Ranbir]

Hello.

Some of you here may have played this brilliant mod for Civ 3. Originally created by Rambuchan and Luddi VII.

After contacting Rambuchan and being told he rarely has time for Civ anymore and has no plans to mod for 4, I've decided to attempt a 'port' of this to Civ 4.

I've recently acquired a decent map of India (Thank you strategyonly!) and have started the tedious xml editting... (I bow to all the modders with the massive modpacks, must have taken you yonks!)

My first phase is to merely mod in the right Civilizations and create the scenario situation. Next will be creating the unique tech trees, improvements and units. I'll probably release it at that point to get a feel of how it plays as a normal game and hoohah. From there I'll work on bringing variety to the improvements, units etc with a focus on balance. Ingame events and a look at any other fancy python-ing that can help enhance the scenario experience. Along the way, whatever art assets can be plugged in will.

I'm going to initially go slow and wait for BTS, just in case it has that something extra useful. That and I don't have much of a choice since it's taken me a day of, although admittedly not focused, XML work on just getting one civilization added. So I doubt I'd have too much done by release day anyway.

So just a heads up to any fans of the scenario. I hope I can do it justice.

Doing right now: Civs, leaders and unique units all with pedia entries.

[Ambreville]

Originally Posted by Ranbir

So just a heads up to any fans of the scenario. I hope I can do it justice.

Best of luck! I'll be waiting for that one.

[silver 2039]

Please make a vanilla version too. This scenario is awesome.

[NikNaks]

As someone who never played Civ 3 Mods, could you elaborate, or link to an old thread?

[Ranbir]

Ah, my bad, thought it was linked.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3903068

[NikNaks]

Looks like a really interesting scenario! Good luck converting it.

[Rambuchan]

Originally Posted by Ranbir

After contacting Rambuchan and being told he rarely has time for Civ anymore and has no plans to mod for 4, I've decided to attempt a 'port' of this to Civ 4.

True that. I have neither the time these days, nor the knowledge of how to mod Civ 4 to make this happen. So all the best with it.

I'll definitely be having a go with the beta version and will try and chip in with some comments / advice / help etc if and when possible.

Originally Posted by Ranbir

I've recently acquired a decent map of India (Thank you strategyonly!) and have started the tedious xml editting... (I bow to all the modders with the massive modpacks, must have taken you yonks!)

My first phase is to merely mod in the right Civilizations and create the scenario situation. Next will be creating the unique tech trees, improvements and units. I'll probably release it at that point to get a feel of how it plays as a normal game and hoohah. From there I'll work on bringing variety to the improvements, units etc with a focus on balance. Ingame events and a look at any other fancy python-ing that can help enhance the scenario experience. Along the way, whatever art assets can be plugged in will.

Sounds like you've got the ordering of things to do quite right. Can we see the map?

Originally Posted by Ranbir

I'm going to initially go slow and wait for BTS, just in case it has that something extra useful. That and I don't have much of a choice since it's taken me a day of, although admittedly not focused, XML work on just getting one civilization added. So I doubt I'd have too much done by release day anyway.

What's BTS?

Originally Posted by Ranbir

So just a heads up to any fans of the scenario. I hope I can do it justice.

I'm sure you'll do a great job. And the CFC community is around to help you out.

Originally Posted by silver 2039

Please make a vanilla version too.

Seconded.

[silver 2039]

What's BTS?

Beyond the Sword expansion pack.

[Rambuchan]

Originally Posted by silver 2039

Beyond the Sword expansion pack.

I'm even more behind on Civ than I thought.

[The Last Conformist]

Neat. I'll keep a beady eye on this ...

[woodelf]

Originally Posted by Rambuchan

I'm even more behind on Civ than I thought.

It is for CivIV and not Civ5 so you aren't that far behind.

[Rambuchan]

Originally Posted by woodelf

It is for CivIV and not Civ5 so you aren't that far behind.

What!!? There's Civ 5 now?

[Ranbir]

Given what's been done yet, it can easily be changed to Vanilla. (Would just need to get a new map, so two version is very possible)

I'll have a preview map up as soon as I get the rivers right. River editting is really frustrating for me in civ4. :\

Ramb, I'd love to get all the background info you used for this. I've managed to nab some from the pedia file.

There is also the civics system which is how governments are defined in 4, rather than a list of types of governments you get to mix & match between a set of attributes your government will have. I'll need help on what civics could be had around this time.

[Rambuchan]

Originally Posted by Ranbir

Ramb, I'd love to get all the background info you used for this. I've managed to nab some from the pedia file.

Most of the material I used for background is listed in the Credits file that comes with the Civ3 version. Check that out for starters. Then ask any questions, because much of the information was drawn from my own bookshelf and from many years of reading on this time period.

Originally Posted by Ranbir

There is also the civics system which is how governments are defined in 4, rather than a list of types of governments you get to mix & match between a set of attributes your government will have. I'll need help on what civics could be had around this time.

Oh yes, teh civics. Remember, I'm not much of a Civ4 player, so my ideas might not be appropriate. But here are some dynamics and ideas to work with:

Government:

Zamindar System (or Hereditary Rule): - As you'd expect it to be, a simple monarchical system but with problems, meaning you'd want to graduate out of it once growing. Best used for the backward civs I guess, and possibly the step before one upgrades to Mansab. Zamindar = Landowner btw.

You might want to separate this between a Feudal system (that would be called Zamindar) and a Monarchical System.

Mansab System - A kind of 'Decentralisation', but with Imperial overtones that suit a more advanced empire. Details need to be fleshed out. You can read much on this administrative system in the existing pedia. Best used for those powers that have established an empire of some size and are looking to stabilise and enhance it.

Colonial Rule: - A European version of the Mansab System and hence best kept for those civs only. Should emphasise wealth (perhaps gold for rush building) and use of population (drafting perhaps) over anything else.

Economic:

Mercantilism: - Similar to the existing Civ3 scenario's government of 'Colonialism' (which should have been called Mercantilism anyway) in its effect on wealth and corruption.

Free Market: - Something similar to what Civ4 has now. Late game only.

Cash crop: - The name sucks I know. But I'm thinking of the Mughals' vast opium based cash crop economy here, as well as the vast number of people within their empire whom they could tax. This system, whatever you call it, should be the mightiest of all of them, but should require a large empire and a number of resources in control.

The Diwan: - Open to all civs. See the pedia entry for 'Deccan Tax'. It's primarily and originally an Islamic term but others, like the British, took to it whilst in India also.

Legal:

- Not sure how one would implement and characterise these in Civ4, but here are names you might want to consider: Sharia Law, Colonial Law, Vedic Law.

Labour:

- No need to create anything new here, just assign the existing ones, namely: Tribalism, Slavery, Serfdom, Caste System (no Emancipation!)

Religious:

Religious Tolerance (Free Religion of sorts): - introduced by Akbar the Great, saw the abolition of the Jizia (non-Muslim) tax, introduced representation at all levels of government for Hindus, Buddhists, Christians etc.

Inquisition: - See the pedia entry on 'The Goan Inquisition' for more on this. The last of the Mughals (see below) introduced a system that was intolerant in the extreme, but not quite as extreme as what the Portuguese brought to India. You might want to separate this from another less harsh Christian civic.

Shia Islamic State (Theocracy of sorts): - Implemented by Aurangzeb, the final Mughal, to disastrous effect. It inspired great hatred, armed revolt and, ultimately, the breaking up of their empire.

[silver 2039]

You might want to separate this from another less harsh Christian civic.

Wouldn't Orientalisim be good when the Europeans thought they were Asian and adopted Asian dress, practices, etc...?

[woodelf]

And you can also come up with new civics categories if need be.

[Ranbir]

I am still working on this, just incredibily boring work atm.

[dh_epic]

This looks like a great idea. I hope you pull it off.

[ohcrapitsnico]

I loved this mod from civIII so I'll be seeing how this turns out.

I was planning on doing a mughal mod after I finished my rise of the ottomans mod but you got it covered. Now all we need is a safavids mod.

[Rambuchan]

Originally Posted by Ranbir

I am still working on this, just incredibily boring work atm.

Since you began this thread, I actually went and got BTS. So I'll be able to play it and give feedback. And sure, it is boring at times, but worth it. So, keep up the good work sir!

Originally Posted by ohcrapitsnico

I loved this mod from civIII so I'll be seeing how this turns out.

Always great to hear

Originally Posted by ohcrapitsnico

I was planning on doing a mughal mod after I finished my rise of the ottomans mod but you got it covered. Now all we need is a safavids mod.

Did you ever play this one? It's really good stuff.