MBAs and Graduate Schools

So on my recent trip to Minnesota, I took along a guide book from Barron's that listed many graduate business schools and gave the basic info (avg. undergraduate GPA, avg. GMAT score, core requirements, etc.) and even though entering into a graduate school will still be a few years away, I should start thinking about it now.

Though I suspect most of the OT crowd here hasn't even gotten to the point of thinking about graduate school (or even college), I do want to gather some thoughts about the process and any kinds of strategies everyone tried/is trying out. Myself, I'll probably take the same approach as I did with college, throw around a bunch of applications and see what sticks. It was necessary then with college because of my poor high school performance that made me borderline with a lot of places, but I think this will give me the opportunity to further consider my options as well as compare any type of packages I might be offered. Yes, it'll mean tossing in more money in applications, time for essays and some of both if I have to take some day/overnight trips to do interviews, but so be it. I'm not so sure of myself that I'll only apply to three places and know I'll make it.

I still have one year to go before I gain my BBA in Finance and I'd definitely consider a dual program that would net me a Master's in something like Public Policy or International Relations. I want to move out of this place ASAP after graduation and it looks more likely that I'll move to the Twin Cities area than my other big option, North Carolina. There, I hope to get in a few years of work experience to add to that application and another move wouldn't be out of the question.

So, who's all been through this before? What should I expect once I cross the Rubicon and fill out applications? Should I scrap work to go full time when I do get in? Or should I try to tough it out and maybe take three years to get that Master's from part-time classes plus part/full time work?

University of Minnesota?

That was one of the places I will be considering, University of Minnesota-Twin Cities.

The good thing about this search is that I have a GPA higher than the averages for all the graduate schools I've seen, at 3.64. I'll need to take a practice GMAT to see where I might be if I wanted to apply right out of graduation (which would probably shut me out of most of the places I'm considering).

About half of those places I've looked at so far are in New York City, though of varying qualities. But paying the rent here is making me look to go elsewhere, at least for a few years.

The Yankee said:

That was one of the places I will be considering, University of Minnesota-Twin Cities.

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Cool beans, you can hang out with Ama and me!

At least for a while, if I do make that move next year.

So you're thinking a masters in IR or PP alongside an MBA?

Maybe. I don't know how difficult it would be to be accepted by whatever school of X University in order to be on track for both, or if my priorities change (as well as my pocketbook, if it's not for grants, I'd be on loans the whole way unless I were lucky enough to land an employer that would pick up some of the tab). Those areas don't seem to get as much attention as business, law, and medical schools.

The Yankee said:

At least for a while, if I do make that move next year.

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Well, I'll be gradurated by then. But I might take grad school courses there, and an MBA is not off the table. I could cheat off you!

Why would something called Perfection need to cheat off me!?

Though hopefully I wouldn't have my rear handed to me in the required accounting courses like I had been in college.

The Yankee said:

Why would something called Perfection need to cheat off me!?

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I could do the test myself, but I'm too lazy.

The Yankee said:

Maybe. I don't know how difficult it would be to be accepted by whatever school of X University in order to be on track for both, or if my priorities change (as well as my pocketbook, if it's not for grants, I'd be on loans the whole way unless I were lucky enough to land an employer that would pick up some of the tab). Those areas don't seem to get as much attention as business, law, and medical schools.

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Well, I have done some fairly extensive research into areas somewhat similar, mainly economics and financial engineering, and those (esp. financial engineering) are probably way too difficult to hold down a job while doing them.

How well versed in math are you? I'm not too knowledgable about those fields, but if international relations involves serious theories of international trade, then the level of mathematical sophistication is fairly high. Here is a set of lecture notes on International Trade, to give you an idea.

Fifty said:

Well, I have done some fairly extensive research into areas somewhat similar, mainly economics and financial engineering, and those (esp. financial engineering) are probably way too difficult to hold down a job while doing them.

How well versed in math are you? I'm not too knowledgable about those fields, but if international relations involves serious theories of international trade, then the level of mathematical sophistication is fairly high. Here is a set of lecture notes on International Trade, to give you an idea.

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I've done okay in math. A C in Calculus this term, but it may also have something to do with the fact that it was online, with pressure to complete x, y, and z each week and some personal things that sidetracked me. Fortunately, I got an A in Statistics. For banking purposes, I've done well with the formulas given (though a financial calculator makes it quick and easy).

I'll have to look at that lecture, thank you. Haven't taken the required International Finance course yet, but perhaps I'll grasp some more of the concepts after this coming fall term.

Now that I think about it, I might be chasing a higher-level idea I had of double-majoring in Finance and Political Science. That wasn't possible due to some policy, but I've already completed the Politics minor.

Since I would need more than the thin resume I have (last work experience: last summer on the gubernatorial campaign), I think I have a decent shot of getting in when I'm 26, three years after getting the BBA.

The Yankee said:

I've done okay in math. A C in Calculus this term, but it may also have something to do with the fact that it was online, with pressure to complete x, y, and z each week and some personal things that sidetracked me. Fortunately, I got an A in Statistics. For banking purposes, I've done well with the formulas given (though a financial calculator makes it quick and easy).

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Well, I'd look carefully at what IR is like. If its anything like international economics, that type of a math background really won't be adequate.

In any case, I think additional math would really boost your apps for masters degree programs. Maybe you ought to consider trying to take a couple math courses at Uminn or something while you are there working? Mathematical stats and Linear Algebra would be good to take.

Again, I'm not sure how closely PP or IR degrees correlate with economics grad school, but if its fairly close then more math would definitely help. UMinn is also well known to be one of the most math-lovin' economics departments in the world.

I'll have to look at that lecture, thank you. Haven't taken the required International Finance course yet, but perhaps I'll grasp some more of the concepts after this coming fall term.

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Well, undergraduate courses in American universities (even top-tier american universities) generally suck at teaching what economics and cognate fields are really like at the graduate school level, so that finance course probably wont help much.


As for MBA, I've always heard they were really really easy.

Fifty said:

Well, I'd look carefully at what IR is like. If its anything like international economics, that type of a math background really won't be adequate.

In any case, I think additional math would really boost your apps for masters degree programs. Maybe you ought to consider trying to take a couple math courses at Uminn or something while you are there working? Mathematical stats and Linear Algebra would be good to take.

Again, I'm not sure how closely PP or IR degrees correlate with economics grad school, but if its fairly close then more math would definitely help. UMinn is also well known to be one of the most math-lovin' economics departments in the world.



Well, undergraduate courses in American universities (even top-tier american universities) generally suck at teaching what economics and cognate fields are really like at the graduate school level, so that finance course probably wont help much.


As for MBA, I've always heard they were really really easy.

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Those are things to consider, definitely. I'll still have to see what the actual courses are like. Since this is the preliminary of the preliminary, those basic statistics of who got in and what they offer at least gives me a snapshot of what tiers I could consider. It also blew away a couple of odd misconceptions I had about a few places (like the MBA program at St. John's here in New York being on the same level as that of Pace University, my soon to be alma mater).

I've done some Grad school in the past and I'm currently looking for one now, myself. I've seen that doing the night school part-timer thing is ok, and that might be the only way if you're going to a smaller college. I think extra time might actually work to your advantage if you use the full amount of it to work on a thesis (if you're in that kind of program).

Overall I found Grad school pretty easy to get into as a continuing education thing, but if you're aiming for a selective school, I suggest you start working on getting some quality recommendations now, as well as prepping for relevant GRE's; There might be other thing you'll need to do to be a standout for a tough admission school, so figure on starting on that immediately, and try making contacts within the departments you want to study, to see what they're looking for.

The Yankee said:

So, who's all been through this before? What should I expect once I cross the Rubicon and fill out applications? Should I scrap work to go full time when I do get in? Or should I try to tough it out and maybe take three years to get that Master's from part-time classes plus part/full time work?

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Why are you even thinking about an MBA right out of undergrad? The most valuable thing about going to B-school is collaborating with people in different industries and making connections that can help you get a lucrative job offer when you finish. If you have no real work experience, you are going to get a lot less out of the program and aren't going to get well-connected. You really aren't maximizing the value of an MBA if you go right out of undergrad. And what kind of school would accept a candidate right out of undergrad? The ones where the degree isn't worth very much.

Stick with your plan of working for a few years first.

GoodGame said:

I've done some Grad school in the past and I'm currently looking for one now, myself. I've seen that doing the night school part-timer thing is ok, and that might be the only way if you're going to a smaller college. I think extra time might actually work to your advantage if you use the full amount of it to work on a thesis (if you're in that kind of program).

Overall I found Grad school pretty easy to get into as a continuing education thing, but if you're aiming for a selective school, I suggest you start working on getting some quality recommendations now, as well as prepping for relevant GRE's; There might be other thing you'll need to do to me a standout for a tough admission school, so figure on starting on that immediately, and try making contacts within the departments you want to study, to see what they're looking for.

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I've noticed a fair amount of MBA (or other business degree) programs don't have a thesis, but it's probably the case for degrees in other fields. I'd definitely have to look at all requirements and see how possible it would be to complete all of them within a reasonable amount of time (i.e. not spending 5 years or more chasing the degree(s), even part-time)

I can count on at least two people to give me quality recommendations, one from C-SPAN and one from the politics professor I've had for a year and a half....I'd just have to sit on them for a few years or keep in touch to get them later. Once I work somewhere, here, in MN, in NC, or anywhere in between, I hope to get one more from there to establish that I have a credible full-time work ethic and not just coordinating Pace's studio with C-SPAN's twice weekly. Plus, I should have one or two more options from there, including business professors now that I'm entering the final year, which is very business-intensive and not the standard 301 class or other requirements..

ShannonCT said:

Why are you even thinking about an MBA right out of undergrad? The most valuable thing about going to B-school is collaborating with people in different industries and making connections that can help you get a lucrative job offer when you finish. If you have no real work experience, you are going to get a lot less out of the program and aren't going to get well-connected. You really aren't maximizing the value of an MBA if you go right out of undergrad. And what kind of school would accept a candidate right out of undergrad? The ones where the degree isn't worth very much.

Stick with your plan of working for a few years first.

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I am. I'm only thinking about this now so I can at least know whom to target when I do start applying and also to give a reasonable timetable for an employer should they need to know what my ambitions are. If I get into a good program after three years of working, I'll be ahead of the curve. There's no way I'll be one of those 1-3% that head right into an MBA program out of undergraduate school. They probably fall behind in some areas as it is.

Additionally, it'll also let me know what to tell my folks should I need to lean on them somewhat during the program.

Yeah I agree that the entire point of the MBA isn't learning, its networking. By all accounts its an easy degree in terms of the actual coursework, you just want to focus on networking and job opportunities.

Fifty said:

Yeah I agree that the entire point of the MBA isn't learning, its networking. By all accounts its an easy degree in terms of the actual coursework, you just want to focus on networking and job opportunities.

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Obviously, so I'll have to look at their placement/job opportunities offices/departments as well and make sure they cater to a younger student instead of a 30 or 40-something that went through it for a leg up and already has their contacts in order. I could probably get into a program that does cater to those that maybe haven't done that well in college but have worked for 10, 15 years and want to get through this, even with 450-550 GMAT scores and so forth. But it wouldn't be a good fit at all.

My opinions of an MBA matches those already posted.

What interests me is that most universities in the UK will not accept a young student onto an MBA. One of the published entry requirements is having some industrial experience in project management.

Having said that, requirements are not adhered to all the time.