Office of Chief Scientist- Term 5

mike6426

mike6426

Singularitarian
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
160
Location
Somewhere
Current researchable techs are:
Economics: First receives a GM, Enables Free Market
Astronomy: Galleon, Observatory, Centers World Map, Trade on Ocean
Engineering: Pikeman, Castle, Hagia Sophia, +1 road movement
Drama: Theatre, Globe Theatre, Can adjust culture rate
Nationalism: Hermitage, The Taj Mahal, Enables Nationhood
Liberalism: First receives free tech, Enables FS and FR
Gunpowder: Musketman
Theology: Sistine Chapel, Enables Theocracy
Music: Cathedral, Norte Dame, Can build culture
Replaceable parts: Lumbermill, Windmill/Watermill: +1 Hammer

Please use this office only for clarifications on orders or other things, Tech Plans was made for debates
 
mike6426 said:
If a vote to change to OR (which I would not like) happens, then I will research Monotheism after PP.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest waiting on this until after the war. There is a small chance the Germans will give it to us in the peace deal.

Just curious, but do we have enough advanced cottages to make PP worth it?
 
I object to that. Monotheism is only 2 turns of research, and we are to add the OR to the entire Civics change when we do it. There are several polls asking for OR, among other civics, following the conquest of the pyramids.

I am not waiting in vain for a peace agreement, unless it comes directly after the conquest of Berlin.

For cottages, just vote Serfdom, and we get more of them, 50 % more of them in the increase department.
 
We are currently researching "Guilds", 8 turns left, I saw that on the save.
Are you aware that we will disable our ability to produce Keshiks with Guilds?

I suggest ending the research on "Guilds" now, change to Printing Press immediately(we are only 1 turn away from Printing Press, which is a major gold boost) and Monotheism, where we are only 2 turns away from the technology, in that order, so we can build our many keshiks, before we invent guilds. For Grocers ,these will be built 25 % faster with Organized Religion.

Since we are owning Berlin in 5 turns, I recommend that we prepare for the civics revolution immediately after the Berlin conquest - this means Monotheism needs to be researched now, not in 13 turns. I hope you listen to "citizens input" here. :)
 
Provolution said:
We are currently researching "Guilds", 8 turns left, I saw that on the save.
Are you aware that we will disable our ability to produce Keshiks with Guilds?
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? The programmer in me says they wouldn't disable a UU like that. Even if it is disabled, it might not be a bad thing. Please post the difference between Keshik and whatever unit might replace it.
 
Keshiks

Movement 2, Strength 6, Cost 50 hammers
First strike, 50 % bonus against catapult, no terrain movement penalties
No defense bonus

Knights
Movement 2, Strength 10, Cost 90 hammers
Immune to first strikes
No defense bonus

Since we do need more new catapults, longbowmen and keshiks right now, and we have no gold to upgrade present Keshiks, as well as the enemy already got Feudalism for their defense, I suggest we wait with Guilds for a while. We need markets and courthouses and so on before we mature for grocers. Yet, we also need organized religion to build said buildings faster.

The keshiks will be disabled by knight, as keshik upgrades to, yes, knight.
Let our UU live a little bit longer.
 
I see the knight as an overall better unit and guilds is a necessary step towards mercantilism, a civic that has the possibility of greatly enhancing our gold and science output. Also grocers are an excellent building which a few of our high gold producing cities could build quickly to pay for these new expensive civics.
 
How many polls that support Monotheism researched before our planned Civic Change following the conquest of the Pyramids do you require, before you intend to follow the Will of the People? I see you are heavily opposed to Organized Religion, so I have added several polls making sure we are to have the revolution as planned. And for your precious groceries and banks, these will be built at a 25 % faster pace thanks to this motion, so I urge you to support it as well, at least for the sake of cooperation. And for your knights, I do not need them for the next ten turns anyways.

Thank you

Poll is here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=230103
 
grant2004 said:
I see the knight as an overall better unit and guilds is a necessary step towards mercantilism, a civic that has the possibility of greatly enhancing our gold and science output. Also grocers are an excellent building which a few of our high gold producing cities could build quickly to pay for these new expensive civics.
Click to expand...

:agree:

And I'm :sad: at Monotheism and OR
 
dutchfire said:
:agree:

And I'm :sad: at Monotheism and OR
Click to expand...

hehe, I can see that, there was no question to trade for it, get it in a peace agreement or even research for it, and even less the civic itself, so I knew this had to be worked for, hard.
 
Provolution said:
How many polls that support Monotheism researched before our planned Civic Change following the conquest of the Pyramids do you require, before you intend to follow the Will of the People? I see you are heavily opposed to Organized Religion, so I have added several polls making sure we are to have the revolution as planned.

Poll is here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=230103
Click to expand...

I do not view 2 people as a significant majority, as most polls can get at least 5 people. Also, that poll would have a large error margin, as (again) only 2 people (most likely including you) were polled on the subject.

I have updated the research orders to better comply with your ideas, Provolution, and I hope that it will quell at least some of this disagreement.
 
With Monotheism in place, I support your long term plan in full :)

Now your buildings will get up quicker too.

I withdrew the poll when I saw you accepted a 2 turn detour for Monotheism. But there is another poll, where 80 %, or 7 people, wants the civic change right after the conquest.
 
I assume (hope :D) that Banking is next after Guilds. Am I correct?
 
Banking is next, consider my literature pressure as merely lobbying.

Surely we need Engineering or Literature, depending on war goals and other things.
 
Provolution said:
Banking is next, consider my literature pressure as merely lobbying.

Surely we need Engineering or Literature, depending on war goals and other things.
Click to expand...

According to my research, we have about 11/12 turns left to decide between those two (and other options of course). So that's basically one turnchat.
 
I think next TC should end with Banking and Civic change, this is why I am pressing for Vassalage right now.
 
Provolution said:
I think next TC should end with Banking and Civic change, this is why I am pressing for Vassalage right now.
Click to expand...

I think the next real TC should end with Banking being discovered. We then have time to discuss switching to Vassalage depending on the current situation.
 
12-13 turns is not much, and not worth parting in two sessions. This is why I either want to put Literature between for making it worth it, or, decide on Vassalage/Mercantilism now (after the private TC, on friday).

Having all these petty 6 turn sessions can kill a game, if we got too many legalities on top. If we cannot discuss several issues at once, Civ4 probably should not be played as a demogame, as complexity is too high.
 
I think you're missing what I was trying to say (probably my fault :p)

I want 1 TC (by Methos) that starts from the current save (1360) and plays right until finishing Banking. So that's about 11 turns.
 
I think we should label tomorrow as STC and the friday one as NExt TC, since MEthos is first doing the real thing friday. STC is special turn. chat.

Besides, how do you intend to discuss AND Poll and put into instructions, the civic changes, Mercantilism and Vassalage, or is this just a sort of diversionary tactic to avoid vassalage altogether ?

You need to contribute to discussions now, even though we do not have the exact figures.

Getting Vassalage with Mercantilism will net us money and useful troops. I can put a hold on unit production when we reach 16 unit upkeep, now, with the 2 units being made and 4 more catapults.
 
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