Persian Prince Difficulty - Is my game salvageable? Advice required.

Well I started a game with Persians, and my game plan was to look for horses early in the game, hook them up and get on the attack with Immortals ASAP. However, I really think I overdid it as my finance completely owned me, and my units even went on strike for a couple of turns.

Even now as the war is over, my finance is still pretty much abyssmal. And the most irritating part to that is, the Celts were left with one city left with 3 archers, and even my 8 Immortals outside could just stand and watch with no chance of surviving.. ugh.

So yeah, before I start a new game, is there anything I could do to salvage my game?

Also, comments on my early game play-style would be appreciated.. did I overdo it on the attacking with so many Immortals? Also if I were to approach this game style, what alterations could I have made in my strategy to further improve it?

Thanks in advance guys.

My saved game :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/67864/eric-new.CivWarlordsSave

Can't open the save right now, but some general comments:

1) Don't go nuts overexpanding until you have currency and col

2) Controlled expansion early on. Raze unimportant/distant cities initially. Keep capitals/holy cities/cities that can pay for themselves (e.g., have a gold pit).

3) Beeline math-currency-col asap. Delay alphabet, etc. You need the extra trade routes and courthouses to finance your expansion. Forbidden palace as well.

Ideally you want to take out two rivals with your immortals, but you can't completely trash your economy (some sinking is ok because with a huge empire you can eventually recover).

How many cities do you have in your current game? If you have 10-15 then I would give this advice:

-Cottage like crazy and beeline currency-col. Get courthouses and markets built. Use hereditary rule to grow your cities nice and large. Research alphabet. Research techs the AI doesn't have. Generate great people to lightbulb techs the AI doesn't have. Tech trade to get back to parity then surpass the AIs. Go to war again. Settle down, grow more cottages, win.

If you have fewer than 10 cities I would say start over putting into practice my initial advice.

When you have a great early uu (Rome/Egypt/Persia) you have to work on controlled expansion while beelining currency/col to really expand. Alternatively, you can say forget the economy and just run merchants to avoid striking (build gold as well--both require currency). You can do this and get a very large empire and then enter a recovery period where you cottage spam, build courthouses/forbidden palace/markets, and eventually catch up and surpass the AIs. It is not a bad plan and can work very well.

futurehermit said:

Can't open the save right now, but some general comments:

1) Don't go nuts overexpanding until you have currency and col

2) Controlled expansion early on. Raze unimportant/distant cities initially. Keep capitals/holy cities/cities that can pay for themselves (e.g., have a gold pit).

3) Beeline math-currency-col asap. Delay alphabet, etc. You need the extra trade routes and courthouses to finance your expansion. Forbidden palace as well.

Ideally you want to take out two rivals with your immortals, but you can't completely trash your economy (some sinking is ok because with a huge empire you can eventually recover).

How many cities do you have in your current game? If you have 10-15 then I would give this advice:

-Cottage like crazy and beeline currency-col. Get courthouses and markets built. Use hereditary rule to grow your cities nice and large. Research alphabet. Research techs the AI doesn't have. Generate great people to lightbulb techs the AI doesn't have. Tech trade to get back to parity then surpass the AIs. Go to war again. Settle down, grow more cottages, win.

If you have fewer than 10 cities I would say start over putting into practice my initial advice.

When you have a great early uu (Rome/Egypt/Persia) you have to work on controlled expansion while beelining currency/col to really expand. Alternatively, you can say forget the economy and just run merchants to avoid striking (build gold as well--both require currency). You can do this and get a very large empire and then enter a recovery period where you cottage spam, build courthouses/forbidden palace/markets, and eventually catch up and surpass the AIs. It is not a bad plan and can work very well.

Click to expand...

I have about 7 cities if I recall, after reading your advice, definitely gonna restart my game lol. I took out Stalin already, and almost for the Celts but yeah like I mentioned, I just can't believe 8 immortals outside can't touch the 3 archers inside.. such a waste, final city as well. Buddhism holy city too =(.

Sorry I'm kinda new but what exactly is beelining? And yeah, I kept most of the cities.. really should have razed most of them to keep my finance in the blacks and only keep those that pay for themself. Bah, hope I get better than this soon lol.

Thanks again man.. if you do manage to see my save, do leave some more feedback yeah? They're much appreciated~

Had a look at the save; you've only got five cities and still running -10gpt at 0% research. No problem. Gift Moscow and Vienne to Monte (moving him from annoyed to cautious) and disband a couple of warriors; that brings you to +1 at 0% research so you won't have units being forcibly removed. Recalling immortals to your own cities will save you a bunch of costs.
You could go on a razzia targetting the cities you don't want to keep, they'll be resettled sooner or later but a resettled city is still weaker than an established city.
Buddhist holy city gives 5 culture/turn, palace gives an extra 2 culture/turn which is why it has 60% defence and is therefore immune to immortals. That's a city that will have to wait until cats.

pigswill said:

Buddhist holy city gives 5 culture/turn, palace gives an extra 2 culture/turn which is why it has 60% defence and is therefore immune to immortals. That's a city that will have to wait until cats.

Click to expand...

...because we are talking about Brennus here, it is very likely that it's also a city on a hill with guerilla promoted archers behind a wall (dun)... can't open the save right now, so I don't know... so this city might be untouchable even for up to 15 immortals... bad idea to attack as his units will only become stronger when they survive...

As Pigswill said those kind of cities have to wait for your mighty catapultas Just pillage him back to zero improvements get the money and come back later

Rapid early expansion, or REX, is a great strategy. But it's easy to panic after the initial conquest when you're hemorrhaging money. It pays off in the end as your economy bounces back, but you've got to keep your troops fed in the short term.

As others have said, only keep holy cities and capitals. When you are expanding rapidly through conquest, the main thing that drives your research is the plunder from captured cities. Keep marginal cities and you will squander this money quickly.

Also, for future reference it is often a good idea to drop research to 0% right after you get your military tech, and right before the invasion. This allows you to run a deficit for a longer period after the war gets underway. Once you get a few specialists and cottages going, you can start your research again.

It's tempting to keep cities when you you know that the area will immediately be resettled by some AI. But as another poster pointed out,

a resettled city is still weaker than an established city.

Click to expand...

This is the key. Even if a rival founds a city on the very next turn, you still gained a chunk of gold from the conquest, and set back one of your opponents by quite a bit.

Besides plunder, light-bulbing techs with great people is the other way to keep your economy going during hard times. Even at 0% science, a GP farm can still work towards a great person.

Last night I was playing Bismarck on a Fractal map, and only had one neighbor pre-Optics, who I obliterated in short order. Needless to say, when Caravels came on the scene I was far behind in tech. My early war had set me back, and I had killed my only trading partner. The AIs had about 7 techs on me.

No matter. I still won the Liberalism race because I was running a SE. This is why SE is so well-suited to early warring strategies. Your research is less dependent on generating gold, and new cities can quickly pay for themselves when you're running civics like Caste System and Mercantilism.

(Sorry for the very general advice, but I can't open your save right now.)

Taking cities with high cultural defence with immortals:

FLANKING, FLANKING, FLANKING

Send in some flanking 1-2 immortals first to wear down defenders and then use combat 1-2 immortals to mop them up. Bring sufficient troops to get the job done. DO get the job done. Capitals and holy cities are important targets!

ATTACK THE CAPITAL FIRST

If at all possible the capital should be your first target and you should hit it asap. Hit it with a dozen or so immortals in the early going and you will take it down. The longer you wait, the more units and the higher cultural defence it will have. My persia strategy: Research AH. Claim horses with 2nd city. Have 1 worker per city improving tiles and connecting them together (for troop transport and trade route). Then chop/pop rush barracks in both, as well as a pile of immortals. After AH, wheel, mysticism, pottery, writing and BW, maybe fishing (not necessarily in that order) you can slap research to 0%. You don't have to if you are doing controlled expansion. But if you want to do uncontrolled expansion (which is ok imo) then set research to 0 and go take out your closest two opponents keeping only capitals, holy cities, and cities that can pay for themselves. Try to avoid striking though if possible (harder without currency, more on this below). Once your whip-driven conquest is over (the age of immortals is brief, get maximum value) then resettle the land at your own pace while cottage spamming everywhere. Work as many cottages as possible to stabilize your economy to the point where you can get it up to 70% or so. Also run some scientists in high-food cities to supplement your research and get some lightbulbs for trading opporunities.

It may take a little while, but once you've settled that huge chunk of land you now have and once all those cottages mature come the renaissance/industrial eras your tech-pace will be unrivaled, especially at lower skill levels.

Re: Currency (and Col): Currency and CoL are the green-light-expansion techs. Once you have both, and especially currency (immediate trade routes, ability to build gold, can run merchant specialists with market), then you can go nuts expanding (imo). So, a controlled expansion on your first opponent while beeling--immediately setting research toward without any diversions--currency and col (via currency) before declaring war on your 2nd opponent can also be good. The trick is you have to keep an eye your 2nd target to make sure they don't have copper and iron hooked up. And if you don't have IW yet, that can be tricky. That is why I'm not opposed to wiping out both rivals asap prior to currency and then rebuilding. It can be trickier trying to stay afloat though. You really can't keep non-essential cities. Raze them knowing that you are securing the land that you can re-settle later.

To Opening Posters question: Is my game salvageable?

Yes, it is salvageable, and indeed should give you an easy victory. If noone suddenly declares on you next few turns. I played 3 turns, and consider myself emperor player. Here is how:

1. Revolt to slavery ASAP. You should almost always do this in your games when you discover bronze working. The anarchy should prevent Strikes for your following turn.
2. Finish Brennus. Let 2 immortals kill that city East of his capital. RAZE it. Then attack his capital with everything you got. Your 4 first immortals will have tough odds, but after that it will be easy cruising. Unless you are lucky it will not fall 1.turn, but have 1 archer left for the 2.turn. This 2. turn you promote your chariots who won and have exp, so they are healed for 2.assault. I managed to take the city easy, with 3-4 chariots to spare. You will probably want to keep the capital.
2. Now you have a dead brennus, and 180 gold to tide you over a bit. Disband your surplus chariots, and keep other INside your culture. (Less upkeep then). Disband warriors, of course, and send immortals to replace them. Defend from barbs, you haven't got money to fogbust for a while.
3. Your cities are working max production. Set them to "o" (the is, coins.) Manually set tiles to commerce tiles. (Like water)
4. Last and most important point: WHIP out libraries in a lot of cities. Then let them run as many scientists as you are able. You can leave research at 0%, and with 3-4 scientists you will see that alphabet will only take a few more turns. This will SAVE you.
5. You can probably trade for a lot of techs, just be sure to get POTTERY. Build 1-2 cottages near every city, hopefully near rivers. This will let you turn around and WIN.
6. P.S using scientists when your % is low is very very good. Without ability to make libraries you would be in a very dire spot here.
7. Bonus: Soon you will get great scientists. Have fun playing with them, too.