State Property & Caste System

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

Ok, firstly SP I thought was having a slight nerf, by the "no corporations" rule.
But this could also be used to the State Property runners benefit in some circumstances. Now the real reason SP is so popular, is not the "no dist penalty", which lets be honest is generally pretty trivial at that stage.

No why people like SP is the watermills, and of course the Workshops.
Several people have demonstarted how to produce a grasslands SP powerhose production city in past threads, but now with the new Caste System:-

State Property:+ 1 :food:

from Watermill
+ 1 :food:

from Workshop
+10% :hammers:

in all cities

Caste System: +1 :hammers:

from Workshop

So now a grasslands workshop (after guilds and chemistry of course)with SP and CS is 2 :food:

4

Thats the same as a pre-railroad mined plains/hill but feeds itself!

While Sp doesn't have any great synergy with Cs, it doesn't have any with Emancipation either, and as SP is mainly used as a warring civic, it may be a very nice fit with representation.

Since this is all very recent info, I may have got something wrong, but if the above stands, hasn't SP become even more powerful.

Discuss. All views welcome.

Antilogic · Jul 18, 2007

I'm looking forward to trying it. There are some obvious "synergy" civics, like Emancipation-Universal Suffrage, Representation-Mercantilism, and the like, and I'm glad there is a new combo.

I'm wondering if I should forego my preferred watermills and stock up on exclusively farms and workshops. If so, then I can possibly run extra specialists and get the insane workshop production. Is this built for a specialist economy? I'd think it fits much more so than a cottage economy.

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

Antilogic said:
I'm looking forward to trying it. There are some obvious "synergy" civics, like Emancipation-Universal Suffrage, Representation-Mercantilism, and the like, and I'm glad there is a new combo.

I'm wondering if I should forego my preferred watermills and stock up on exclusively farms and workshops. If so, then I can possibly run extra specialists and get the insane workshop production. Is this built for a specialist economy? I'd think it fits much more so than a cottage economy.

Id have to agree with the SE assumption. OMG I just thought. A SP river plains/workshop with a levee is now 1 :food:

and 6

....6

!!. That's utterly insane....and a floodplains/workshop will feed it AND produce 5 :hammers:

itself. Thats 2 tiles that feed themselves and produce 11 :hammers:

.Add in the 10%, and thats 12 base :hammers:

from a plain and a floodplain....I'm all superlatived out...

Antilogic · Jul 18, 2007

That's what you see from a special resource, like iron or coal or something. Now, you get it just for a plains river?

The floodplains/workshop is disgusting...you didn't even mention the cherry commerce on top you get for the river thing. I'll have to try the specialist economy more seriously now that it looks ridiculously awesome.

AlessioCerci · Jul 18, 2007

Just a guess: maybe they removed +1 :hammers:

from one of the techs, e.g chemistry or guilds. Otherwise SP, CS is awesome

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

AlessioCerci said:
Just a guess: maybe they removed +1 from one of the techs, e.g chemistry or guilds. Otherwise SP, CS is awesome

Nope still +1 :hammers:

from Guilds and +1 :hammers:

from Chemistry (confirmed by Watiggi)

AlessioCerci · Jul 18, 2007

I suppose they thought that, with corporations state property had suffered a big nerf, and that it needed to beef it up. Of course we dont know yet if cancelling all effects of corporations balances the +1 :hammers:

from caste system.

frob2900 · Jul 18, 2007

DrewBledsoe said:
I may have got something wrong, but if the above stands, hasn't SP become even more powerful.

Discuss. All views welcome.

By looking at from the pre BtS mechanics, you are right, this is a fantastic benefit.

but

What we don't know yet is how great the :hammers:

and

bonus effect from corporations will be in actual gameplay. It could be that State Property is really nerfed when compared to fully functioning Free Market economies with Cereal Mills :food:

(I don't remember the exact name), Mining Inc. :hammers:

and Creative Constructions :hammers:

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

frob2900 said:
By looking at from the pre BtS mechanics, you are right, this is a fantastic benefit.

but

What we don't know yet is how great the and bonus effect from corporations will be in actual gameplay. It could be that State Property is really nerfed when compared to fully functioning Free Market economies with Cereal Mills (I don't remember the exact name), Mining Inc. and Creative Constructions

Yeah, I'm hoping Watiggi or one of the other Aussies can provide us with this missing bit of insight, but it will probably take several games before we really have any idea.

Welcome all to the new State Property vs Free Market arguement:- Episode III - Beyond The Sword - A New Hope :mischief:

Virulent · Jul 18, 2007

As it stands right now SP seems to be stronger than ever and I might actually use Caste System for once (I usually stick with Slavery until I switch to Emancipation just I case I need to quickly whip something out).

The no corps under SP actually sounds like another bonus as corps sound like something you inflect onto other Civs so you can break their economy, unless you are in need of aluminum or oil.

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

Ok, I borrowed VoiceofReasons' Thebes from his "evaluating production" strategy article (hope he doesn't mind

)...and applied the new BTS production to it, including a levee and civics Caste System and State Property.

His original city here for comparison. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3989034&postcount=1

His Thebes produced 63 hammers.(The first example shown). The new Bts Thebes would produce an extra 32 base hammers to make 95, and then another 10% on top which equals 104 :hammers:

! (can't WB it of course don't have the game for a few days yet like most of you :cry:

)

Thats a 65% improvement over his Warlords Thebes. Ok 12 of those 32 hammers are from the levee, which isn't down to any civic, but 104 :hammers:

before any building or civic modifiers (org religion for example) are applied. That's frightening for a city without a hill or special "metal" or "stone" resource in sight.

Free Market with Corps is going to have to be pretty good..........

rickb · Jul 18, 2007

Straight from the manual:

State Property no longer provides a bonus from Watermills or Workshops, but instead provides a +25% production bonus.

Caste System receives a food bonus from Workshops.

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

rickb said:
Straight from the manual:

State Property no longer provides a bonus from Watermills or Workshops, but instead provides a +25% production bonus.

Caste System receives a food bonus from Workshops.

The civlopedia says differently (curtousy of Watiggi)....one must be wrong, see the "I got it" thread.

Btw if you have the game yourself, could you possibly set up something in WB to test pls?

rickb · Jul 18, 2007

No I don't have the game, I just have the manual. I posted a thread about were to get it from yesterday, but it got deleted, although I'm pretty sure it's OK for that particular site to have it available since the game is available for pre-order and I'm pre-loading it at the moment (hint, hint).

Moderator Action: Hint, hint that sounds a lot like piracy and we don't condone that here.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

rickb said:
No I don't have the game, I just have the manual. I posted a thread about were to get it from yesterday, but it got deleted, although I'm pretty sure it's OK for that particular site to have it available since the game is available for pre-order and I'm pre-loading it at the moment (hint, hint).

I didn't hear this, as you didn't say it right ?

rickb · Jul 18, 2007

I'd trust the civlopedia over the manual, since I assume it pulls its info directly from the game data.

And yeah, you didn't hear anything from me because I didn't say anything.

homan1983 · Jul 18, 2007

rickb said:
Straight from the manual:

State Property no longer provides a bonus from Watermills or Workshops, but instead provides a +25% production bonus.

Caste System receives a food bonus from Workshops.

That would be a terrible change. It would severely nerf SP on top of the already announced ones.

Getting 1 extra food on workshop and watermills is much more important than having a city work at 225% instead of 200% - which is hardly a difference.

I can only hope that this is not true otherwise I'd be devastated.

DrewBledsoe · Jul 18, 2007

homan1983 said:
That would be a terrible change. It would severely nerf SP on top of the already announced ones.

Getting 1 extra food on workshop and watermills is much more important than having a city work at 225% instead of 200% - which is hardly a difference.

I can only hope that this is not true otherwise I'd be devastated.

It's seems pretty obvious, that the original idea was the one in the manual, and then the changes were made later, relected in the Civlopedia. Probably the testers objected (read sulked and cried) and it was changed to the present. I'm just hoping it hasn't become too powerful in conjunction with Caste System, that's all.......

jkp1187 · Jul 18, 2007

DrewBledsoe said:
It's seems pretty obvious, that the original idea was the one in the manual, and then the changes were made later, relected in the Civlopedia. Probably the testers objected (read sulked and cried) and it was changed to the present. I'm just hoping it hasn't become too powerful in conjunction with Caste System, that's all.......

Well, ain't nothing is obvious until I see it on my computer....

Where is this new Civilopedia that you're referring to? Can you post a link? Thanks.

Rusty Edge · Jul 18, 2007

DrewBledsoe said:
Id have to agree with the SE assumption. OMG I just thought. A SP river plains/workshop with a levee is now 1 and 6....6!!. That's utterly insane....and a floodplains/workshop will feed it AND produce 5 itself. Thats 2 tiles that feed themselves and produce 11.Add in the 10%, and thats 12 base from a plain and a floodplain....I'm all superlatived out...

So you'll become Drew of the Dutch?

Caste System & State Property sound like a poor combination IRL. What was the book about that, "Brave New World"?

State Property & Caste System

Veteran QB

--

Veteran QB

--

Prince

Veteran QB

Prince

Deity

Veteran QB

King

Veteran QB

Warlord

Veteran QB

Warlord

Veteran QB

Warlord

King

Veteran QB

Unindicted Co-Conspirator

Deity

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