NCG 5-The Revenge of the Ottomans

Pre-Game Show
Round 1: 4000 BC to 2440 BC; below
Round 2: 2440 BC to 910 BC; below
Round 3: 910 BC to 40 BC
Round 4: 40 BC to 445 AD
Round 5: 445 AD to 875 AD
Round 6: 875 AD to 1256 AD
Round 7: 1256 AD to 1418 AD

The Noble Challenge Game, or NCG, aspires to show a basic game for all the relatively new players to Civilization. For this NCG, I will be playng as Mehmed II, warlords, using the latest patch. The settings are normal, but the land is in the continents style, with the game speed being epic, at the Noble level. Even though for this game I will be writing summaries similar to the ALC, anyone is welcome to take my origional save and play it out. Just make sure to put your remarks in spoilers.
Here are the game settings:



and our starting location:



we have only one strategic resource, so I assume there will be metal or horses hidden nearby. We're starting a little north for my taste, but the capital looks productive enough to not require a capital swap. the three flood plains should be mitigated by the expansive trait, and that trait helps with the construction of workers as well. BW will be our first tech goal, most likely, but then what, should we go with and SE, CE or hybrid? What tech will be most beneficial?
Comments are welcomed, as usual.

I say a hybrid economy. The Cottages provide a supply of revenue that will accelerate research. Jannisaries will be the key to prosperity or mediocrity.

I still suggest that after you get BW and AH, you get Pottery, Writing and on through Mathematics, Currency, CoL, CS, Paper, Education (a Scientist will speed this up) then Gunpowder. You can backfill and get other techs as needed.

You don't have enough trees to chop, I would think. I kind of want to move the capital west one for the hill, but I get a tundra, we can't see what's on the right, and who knows what the build starter has for us.
I would definitely go for mining. Then you could use the expansive bonus for fast workers with the worker-worker-settler build.
2 workers is easier for improving the flood plains.
Bronze working is ok, but animal husbandry is attractive, too. Then again, pottery would be a nice production/research boost, so you could skip animal husbandry for a bit.

Scouting would help. Definitely mining early, though.

Scout before settling.

Settling in place is ok if there is something good in the dark patches.

Tech order:
Mining
Bronzeworking
Animal Husbandry
Pottery

Grow while beelining BW (only work floodplains). Build warriors for scouting while growing. As soon as (or a short time before, actually) you hit BW; switch to worker (but grow if you are only 1-2 turns from increasing size).

Put a few turns into worker, just enough to let you whip the worker for 1 pop. Put turns into a settler with the overflow. Now switch to warrior while city grows back to size 3.

If AH isnt in yet, build a mine on the other grassland hill. Then build the pig pasture. Otherwise pigs first, then mine. Now work pigs/mine while worker farms a floodplain. Then you should be size 3 and working 3 good tiles. You should also have an extra warrior or two.

Now build settler while worker cottages the other floodplain tiles (perhaps one chop could be ok for the settler even though you have few trees).

Do you guys have any idea where to move my warrior(in compass directions please)?

Hackapell said:

Do you guys have any idea where to move my warrior(in compass directions please)?

Click to expand...

SW, but it doesn't matter too much. Doubt you want to move the settler at all with this start.

Just settle in place. It looks pretty good.

Also, if you're gooing to post screenshots, could you at least turn on resources etc. so we can tell what all the squares contain. This is supposed to be to help noobs, right

And I agree with SW for the warrior, but that wouldn't change any decison about where to settle.

Cheers.

I moved the warrior 1SW, and look what he found:



There's corn in the BFC, and GOLD in dem dar hills!

even so, it seems unlikely that we need to move our prospective capital. Unless I hear dissent on settling in place, I will probably play the next round tonight.
Thoughts?

I would settle in place

Hackapell said:

even so, it seems unlikely that we need to move our prospective capital. Unless I hear dissent on settling in place, I will probably play the next round tonight.
Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Don't move the capital. The gold will hopefully make a good second city (although there seems to be a lot of desert and peaks there..)

4 flood plain, 1 corn , 1 hill pig. +10 food (11 with civil service), and 2 mines.

Growing early vs worker first:
You get +2 food, +2 hammers (work the pig), 1 commerce if you build a worker due to expansive, so worker in 15 turns.
If you whip, that's 8 turns to grow, 3 turns to 15-18 hammers at size 2, whip.

1 west is more attractive due to the forested plains, but you lose that flood plains 2 southeast. Farm the corn first, then hills, and unless I have no bronze, I'd go pottery after bronze working (for the cheap granary and to not waste worker time).

Round 1: 4000 BC to 2440 BC
I went with the general consensus and settled in place:



Ah, so there was wine in the BFC! That means HR will be useful not just for the bonus.

my first hut popped for gold:



and shortly after, we met our only known rival:



UGH! Not you again!

Shortly after that, I picked up a key tech:



and here were the sources of copper



one, near some pigs, gold, and an oasis, and the other near wine, stone and some ivory.
After quite a bit of exploration, I stumbled onto something; we were alone and semi-isolated. That meant that as soon as I finished off peter with an axerush, I would be alone to settle a rather large continent, but I would also be cut off and unable to use my Janissaries as effective weapons or trade. fog-busting will now become critical; we don't want a repeat of ALC 15!
I ended the round with the discovery of pottery:



and now, for the dotmappers among us, the continent was big enough that I cut it into two parts:
The south



and the north:



Peter is approximately 12 squares from our capital, and both coppper and horses are within reach. So now what? Killing Peter is a foregone conclusion, what comes next is the problem. We have many good city sites and acsess to both stone and marble. our tech route may changea bit, as I am thinking of using Liberalism to grab astronomy directly after teching gunpowder, then belining for calvary while I wait for my fleet. that's all in the future though, as what to do next stares at us in the face. Writing semms like a good next target, but a REX followed by axerush of peter and the barbs seems like the plan. Meanwhile, we could focus on grabbing the Glib and making a hybrid economy, with a bureaucratic capital assisting in research.
Thoughts?
P.S. I did whip that settler.

Well, I tried out mehmed in random games. Monarchy is a huge deal for him. His unique building (mathematics) is great, but expansive means that probably your capital will get that big.

A big question is whether you'll need construction or not to take out Peter. Also I had a hard time deciding when to attack as Mehmed, because of his nice builder qualities. Oracle is nice.

The one enemy situation gives you an interesting tech opportunity. You could skip alphabet, since you're not trading with anyone. Currency is a little less useful. If you skip oracle, you can go code of laws through currency, kind of weird, huh. Dye is your only calendar resource, and ivory is your only market happiness resource...

If you can squeeze in the oracle within the axe rush, I'd consider beelining priesthood, grab monarchy, beeline and lightbulb to liberalism (code of law, mathematics, pop philosophy). You don't need any side techs, although pyramids might be nice.

And grabbing the double gold would be excellent.

I will be away on monday for a week, so I will take comments until preferably 19:00 EST tommorow.
on a side note- where should the overflow from the settler go? Into a cheap granary for future whipping possibilities, or something else?

anyone out there? should we continue?

Definitely continue. Keep it coming. You have a great starting site. Double gold/corn city is major also and then grab some copper. Gogogo.

Round 2: 2440 BC to 910 BC
so, a few housekeeping things to do. First, I am please to be the first to point out that I didn't whip the settler. I apoligize.
Second, sorry for the wait. I assumed someone would give me a plan during the two weeks of waiting, so this was my cautious side showing.
Now for the update, It's a long one.

I started off by whipping the settler:



and sent the overflow into a granary, a wise move, since Istanbul is a prime whipping zone. I think a change in capital may be in order here.
I also settled my copper city, after much deliberation:



why here? Sure, it won't grow until I pop it's borders, but it can pay for itself and other cities, has an oasis for more food, and COPPER in a half-decent location, unlike the other two spots near Peter's land. Speaking of peter,I have a feeling that this game may mirror Sisutil's ALC BtS 17; it has the same properties, so it should be interesting.
Then, an odd tidbit showed up:



That's awfully late, isn't it? that could mean a few things: ONe there are no spirital civs, or people are really backwards.
I figured I should get on board with specializing my capital so crack!!!



Overflow went into a settler, who is waiting for orders in the capital. also, I deviated to pick up mysticism and masondry, necessary worker and border pop techs. then I moved onto mathematics to pick up my Hammans.
Peter is proving to be an unwitting ally. He placed his second city on a river with stone, copper and ivory, and then captured the other source:


Thankfully, it looks like he could care less about the copper, as he is happily farming away. he won't know what hit him
and the round ended with the discovery of mathematics:



now for a quick overview of our land:



and peter's:



and the relatively empty southeast:



It needs a little more exploration, so we may not be isolated, just undiscovered...
otherwise, we need a workable plan for the future. Peter's dead to me, but after the conquest of the russians, what then? I have the old standby Alpha being researched,but what should be our long-term goal? should we look for outsiders(explore and beeline towards caravels), turtle up and go wonder-happy? settle and make a massive empire before going out to explore? or pump up our military? The choices are yours to make.
Here's the save.

Errrr, I strongly disagree with a lot of the moves. First, not going worker first, with an expansive civ. Growing to size 2 is ok if you eventually use him to whip the settler. 2nd, your 2nd city can't grow at all. I would have gone for the spot where Peter's 2nd city is (actually 1 east of it), and I would have planted the gold city so you can use both oases and the corn. You need it to grow as fast as possible to support the 2 corn.
Next, why farm the flood plains before the corn? More food, takes less time, and you can cottage your main. You should definitely have mined a hill and used that to pump worker production (1 food + 4*1.5 production is 7).
I'd debate about animal husbandry so early if you're not yet whipping axemen and not taking the 2nd pig city.
Why build a monument? It's your capital, so there's little need for culture. If you need something to grow your city while building, put it into stonehenge, so you'll get some money back.
There's no reason your main city shouldn't be making workers/settlers if your citizens are about to become unhappy. 2nd city should be making a settler/barracks, depending on what you're going to do (or the monument). And if you have farms, your main city should have scientists.

It's getting close to too late to take peter with axemen. Alphabet's a bad choice with only 1 rival, and if you had been heading to it, you can do it before mathematics (unless you want to build his unique building straight away) and don't have to get animal husbandry.

And without axes, shouldn't barbs have owned you from now? I have to apologize for being so critical, but I've been trying out some monarch mehmed games, and I've had to plan very carefully.

I agree with Vica. I would have used the double gold/corn city (1SW of the corn has also a double oasis) to boost your research. Your capital has enough food already so some sharing is definitely not bad. Then start a third settler immediately instead of a monument and grab the copper (1S of the copper). But hey, it is your game and I am very curious how this works out. Peter is expanding like mad but he has a high maintenance already because of the distances.

vicawoo said:

Errrr, I strongly disagree with a lot of the moves. First, not going worker first, with an expansive civ.

Click to expand...

I did go granary first, so at least I did get in a cheap building.

Growing to size 2 is ok if you eventually use him to whip the settler. 2nd, your 2nd city can't grow at all. I would have gone for the spot where Peter's 2nd city is (actually 1 east of it), and I would have planted the gold city so you can use both oases and the corn. You need it to grow as fast as possible to support the 2 corn.

Click to expand...

The city can't grow...yet. I will plan to use the oasis, windmills, and farms on the two forest sqares to feed a production rich city. Also, I already have 2 workers, and will pick up a third in preparation for another city. Unfortunately, I couldn't place a city to grab both oaisises and the corn, so I decided that I would give up some food early on to get raw commmerce. It was not an easy decision, I'll tell you that.

Next, why farm the flood plains before the corn? More food, takes less time, and you can cottage your main. You should definitely have mined a hill and used that to pump worker production (1 food + 4*1.5 production is 7).

Click to expand...

Yes, that's my mistake. Thanks for that and some advice with tile improvments.

I'd debate about animal husbandry so early if you're not yet whipping axemen and not taking the 2nd pig city.

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Frob came up with a plan involving animal husbandry that sounded good, so I went in that direction. I'm still hooking up copper, but peter doesn't even have copper in his borders.

Why build a monument? It's your capital, so there's little need for culture. If you need something to grow your city while building, put it into stonehenge, so you'll get some money back.

Click to expand...

Good idea.

There's no reason your main city shouldn't be making workers/settlers if your citizens are about to become unhappy. 2nd city should be making a settler/barracks, depending on what you're going to do (or the monument). And if you have farms, your main city should have scientists.

Click to expand...

Yes, REX will be important this round; I have found several good spots to settle, so that should be easy. for example, 1S of the last gold mine picks up Corn and Ivory, 1E of the eastermost Ivory in a l-shape picks up more gold, pigs, corn and Ivory, 1N of the southernost dyes pickes up spices and dyes, 1W of the marble for spices and corn, and the small fishing village where my warrio is standing that would also cntest the northern copper. and my Capital is running scientists.

It's getting close to too late to take peter with axemen. Alphabet's a bad choice with only 1 rival, and if you had been heading to it, you can do it before mathematics (unless you want to build his unique building straight away) and don't have to get animal husbandry.

And without axes, shouldn't barbs have owned you from now?

Click to expand...

Peter still hasn't grabbed copper, so I think that while the window of opportunity is closing, there is still a potential that if I grab construction, I can have a cat-axe stack destroy peter. Also, I've gotten into the habit of researching maths before alpha so the AI has some useful backfill I can trade with.

I have to apologize for being so critical, but I've been trying out some monarch mehmed games, and I've had to plan very carefully.

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It's fine. Comments are welcomed. Just remember that this is noble and this is also my standard playing level, meaning this is the highest level I play on.