Rat 24 - AWE Training Game

ThERat

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Greebley and myself have been pondering over ideas of new games and he came up with this idea.

We are playing AW (Always War) games since a long time and would like to see whether we could get new members interested in this fascinating variant. Thus, if there is enough interest, we would start a AW game on emperor (Civ 3 conquest) as a training game.

Greebley and me would be trainers and players at the same time. We would give the new players advise and comment on their turns while providing more detailed turnlogs as well.

We are looking for 4 trainees.

Once we can confirm that there is interest, we would discuss game settings such as map type, barbarian level, Civ etc...

So, for all those out there that always wanted to play AW games but felt not confident or experienced enough, here is your chance. If you need more background information about AW games, there are plenty SG's to be found in this forum (juts look for the handy series etc).
 
I'd be interested in this.
I can handle Emperor pretty well, and Demi-God with a nice start.

I really need to learn how to fight! :hammer:
 
I've yet to play an AW game and I've been wanting to give it a whirl. I'm an experienced Deity level player, so if there are enough newer players who want to play, I'm willing to step aside. But if not, I'd like to join if that's ok. :)
 
welcome ansar and Othniel :goodjob:

Let's hope there are a few more people that show interest

Trainers:
ThERat
Greebley

Trainees:
ansar
Othniel
empty slot
empty slot
 
I am interested, if a little busy. I am involved in 2 SG's at the moment, but I would like to do an AW at some point. If there's a 48 hr window to accept and that much or more to play, I think I could manage. I need to work on my combat skills as much or more than any other facet of my game. I'm comfortable at Monarch level, and I can handle Emperor in an SG, where the error level won’t build to unacceptable levels over 10 turns. I’d love to try it, if things aren’t made super difficult or overly complicated. I’d prefer an un-modded format, as I have a slow dial-up, which makes big downloads a pain. It would be an honor.
 
fantastic to see so much interest :D

ok, we got now 4 trainees, but since TheOverseer714 might be a little busy, we might accept another person. It's clear we are running this SG, so we can start discussing about the setting.

Land: continents or pangaea (surely not archipelago)
Barbs: which level?
Civ: ?

I would suggest a continent game on a standard map, barbs either off or sedentary (this means that only goody huts appear). Or if people wish, another setting? Choice of Civ is tricky. Usually an agri Civ is superb due to the growth. The UU shouldn't be too crappy and be aware that it would cause a GA almost immediately due to AW setting.
I guess for a start we play the relaxed AW setting. This means that we must declare once we meet a new Civ, but are allowed to trade before declaring. We are also allowed to check the intel of each Civ.

Greebley, any comments? And what do the trainees have to say?

By the way, we usually play 24/48 as this is the SG standard


Trainers:
ThERat
Greebley

Trainees:
ansar
Othniel
Aabraxan
TheOverseer714
 
Civ: How about Iroquois? :) Or too easy?

Settings:
Continents 70% (or 60% - I don't know which one is better)
Wet - Warm - 4 Billion (Don't know about these settings either)
Barbs: Sure, sedentary works fine. I guess...

Trading:
Which is usually better? To trade or not to trade?
Btw, what about Embassies? Can we do that before we declare war?
 
And what do the trainees have to say?

Lots. :D

Land: continents or pangaea (surely not archipelago)
Barbs: which level?
Civ: ?

Continents. I like having some naval element to the game, even if it's only for planning invasions.
Barbs: I usually play at Roaming or Restless, but am flexible, especially as this is AW. Civ choice might impact our decision here.

I would suggest a continent game on a standard map, barbs either off or sedentary (this means that only goody huts appear). Or if people wish, another setting? Choice of Civ is tricky. Usually an agri Civ is superb due to the growth. The UU shouldn't be too crappy and be aware that it would cause a GA almost immediately due to AW setting.

As far as Agri civs, I see three obvious choices (listed in no particular order): (1) Iroquois; (2) Maya; (3) Celts. I'd just as soon avoid the Celts for the simple reason that I'm already involved in an SG playing them. Played two simultaneous SGs as the Russians last year. Gets confusing. As between the other two, I'm flexible. I'm currently making a decent shot at Emperor with the Iros and the Mounted Warrior is hard to beat. The Maya, on the other hand, would likely have an even earlier GA, but the enslave ability might allow us to farm barbs for an early slave workforce.
 
I'd like to do this if you can either use another player or else be put on a waiting list in case someone drops out. I play Monarch in solo games, but have played a handful of SGs at Emperor and even one at DG. I have no experience at AW.

My two greatest weaknesses are warfare tactics (about which I'd expect to learn a LOT from this game) and trading (which is practically irrelevant in AW). I tend to ask many questions, even stopping during the middle of a turnset for advice if I don't know what I'm doing.

If you don't have room, I'll still be following this game very closely.
 
Continents is my favorite and is probably the best learnig game. Invading another continent can be both fun and challenging with its own strategies and techniques.

On Civs:
There are a lot of civs that work well at AW and some that are not so good. It is a combination of UU and traits:

Traits:
Expansionist is the worst. You don't want to explore too much because early contact can be a killer. Only time it becomes strong is if you get a settler from a hut (at demigod, I believe the chances for a settler are 1/5, which is higher than at emporer and monarch due to an odd quirk on how huts work.

Religious isn't very useful. You tend not to switch governments often enough to make the short really worth while. Going to Monarchy and staying there is most common. Communism come late and takes too long to set up well. Corrupt towns are very useful in Monarchy as science farms (many scientists). Communism is will have more shields (once you have courthouses) but less science in general.
I think religion has a secondary benefit. Cheap temples means you can get culture expansions fairly easy. Also early temples allow you to better keep up in terms of culture, which in turn makes capturing cities more viable. I am personally a big fan of city capture. Getting a city of size over 1, usually with an aquaduct already, and not having to spend ones own population make them worthwhile. This is especially true if they are corrupt - you can immediately higher 2-4 scientists so capturing a civ of large cities can be worth 100 beakers a turn or more.

Seafaring is only strong in rare Archipellego AW.

Agricultural is one of the strongest traits (unless you are playing an archipelago with no rivers). Extra food is an obvious advantage. Cheaper aquaducts is also a big savings since towns over size 6 get extra unit support in Monarchy, you tend to want them early.

Military is also very strong - cheap barracks and walls (fast walls can really help with defense of new towns) Armies are key for AW so more Elite is very important.

The rest are good but not the best:

Commercial is nice because you do all your own research and need the cash.

For Scientific, Cheap libraries are nice for culture expansions and faster research.

Industrious is good - you set up your initial civ faster, and spend less gold on workers

Some good Civs:
Iroquois - Agricultural + commercial is very strong. UU: A speed 2 strength 3 unit for only 30 gold with HBR is pretty powerful.

Ottomans - Have a later UU so better golden age. Cavalry tend to be the unit where you start making real progress so the Sipahi are very nice. Industrial + Scientific is decent.

Romans - Militaristic + Commercial is very strong. Legions with defense 3 are more free to attack when it means being next to an enemy.

Germans - Scientific + Military is very strong. Their UU comes a bit late but is useful if you have a tough game that lasts that long.

Persia - Scientific + Industrious is decent. Having an early attack 4 unit is what makes them strong.

Celts - They have Agriculture which is strong + religious which is less so. Speed 2 swords is very useful (can attack and retreat) but because of the higher cost it is sometimes hard to get enough of them.

Greece - Great defenders. Cities with walls will hold off attackers even with knights and MDI. Science + commercial is decent.

Maya - Industrial + Agri is very strong. Their ability to generate slaves makes them able to spend gpt on workers. Javalins are not bad units.

Sumeria - The higher the difficulty level, the better this civ is. They are probably the only civ that can defend (for a while) vs SID. Early GA is a disadvantage, but can be used to pump out cheap Enkidu which can sit in mountains and hills and the AI can't send out workers to improve lands.
Agri+scientific is very strong as well.

China - Militaristic + Industrious is very strong. Early speed 3 Riders make great armies (Move 4 armies make a difference - that is 4 attacks per turn and can penetrate into enemy territory).

Aztecs - Mil + Agri is probably the best combo. Jaq warriors are less than stellar however. Doing a Jaguar rush on a nearby civ can be worthwhile.

I think this is a list of the traditional "best civs" for AW. There are other civs that I think are decent and some that are bad. Worth mentioning:

Spain with seafaring and religious has poor traits. Their UU has one huge advantage however. A Conquistador army can move and pillage 9 squares a turn. This is very powerful - make 2-3 of these armies and the AI will have unimproved lands. Their fast movement means they can catch workers and disband them - something other Armies have difficulty doing (speed 4 armies can do this sometimes).

India If you are feeling unlucky, being able to build knight like units without resources any resources is a big advantage (they get an extra hp as well according to civopedia - don't think I ever noticed that).

Best(from above): Iroquois, Ottomans, Roman, German, Persia, Celts, Greece, Mayans, Sumeria, China, Aztecs

Very good (nearly make best list):Japan(Mil + Def 4 'knights'), Dutch(agricultural + Def 4 'Pikes'), Viking (Militaristic, early attack 6 unit, 'best' if Archipelago), Spain (on standard or smaller map)

Good: Babylon, Byz (one of the best if Archipellago), Carthage (UU is a bit too expensive but a strong defender), France, Inca (agricultural), Korea(UU a bit late though), Mongols(only because Militaristic - exp trait and UU poor), Zulu (militaristic, UU can supress nearby worker action), India.

Fair: Egypt(bad if late contact and UU not used), England, Hittites(bad if UU not used), Portugal(assuming not Argipelago, bad for Pangea), Russia (multiple attack Cav UU might make it 'good' - not sure)

Bad: America, Arabia

A final note is that these are personal opinions. Different play style can change the list. For example, Japan is not "best" because I don't tend to use the defense of Knights very often when I play and Vikings aren't because Berserks are slow and I prefer faster units.
 
I like the Iroquois best, then the Maya, then China, but the others listed are fine. In my one SG we are Spanish, the other I am subbing in is German, so I'd prefer to not be those. I think a fast UU might be best for AW, so I'll vote Iroquois.
 
Is there any slot avalible?

Hi!I'm new to this forum and never done a succession game,i would love to join a Training game,is newbie welcomed?
 
I like sedentary barbs for AW, we don't need an extra enemy, unless we play as the Maya, then i'd say roaming. I love farming for barb slaves! Nothing sweeter than free workers if you ask me. Set-up wise, I like standard or large continents, warm, wet, 4 billion.
 
Although you've not yet said whether or not you have room for me in the roster, my preferences are either Iroquois or China (I'm currently playing in an SG as the Celts), standard continents, wet, temperate, 5 billion years, sedentary or no barbs.
 
thanks Greebley for the exhaustive list:

I would say, gmaharriet, you're in. As for shinsei, there are 2 issues. What is the diffculty you can play a normal game at and win? Note that an AW is much harder than a standard game. Of course, SG's partially make up for hat as you tend to play above your skill in these.

Also, I don't want the list to be too long, we have already 5 trainees and that makes our team 7. This is already very long. I hope you're not too disappointed, maybe we keep you as a sub in case someone drops out. Do lurk and there might be an opening for other games.


Trainers:
ThERat
Greebley

Trainees:
ansar
Othniel
Aabraxan
TheOverseer714
gmaharriet

Another issue for rostering people, what are the time zones you are in. I know ansar, gmaharriet and Greebley are in the US. I am in the East Asian zone.


At this moment, I am thinking of Germany as I haven't played them in ages (and I think SG's didn't feature them for a long time). Sure, their UU comes very late, but that should be fine.

I would say either Greebley or myself can start this game.

Settings so far:
Standard size continents with 60 or 70% water. Barbs are sedentary.
Do we switch off SGL?
Civ: Germany/Iroquois/China? others suggestions?
 
Another issue for rostering people, what are the time zones you are in. I know ansar, gmaharriet and Greebley are in the US. I am in the East Asian zone.
I am GMT-5. :)

At this moment, I am thinking of Germany as I haven't played them in ages (and I think SG's didn't feature them for a long time). Sure, their UU comes very late, but that should be fine.
I think Iroquois would be good for the first game, so we can get used to AW without getting pummeled too bad.

Maybe Germany in a later game. :)
I would say either Greebley or myself can start this game.
Either one of you guys is fine.

I always wondered what the building order is early in a AW game.
Settings so far:
Do we switch off SGL?
Civ: Germany/Iroquois/China? others suggestions?
I don't really care about the SGLs.
My suggestion for civ: Iroquois.
 
ThERat said:
Do we switch off SGL?
Since it appears we will be doing self-research for many of the same techs that the AI go after early (like Iron Working), we would be unlikely to be first to many techs. SGLs could only benefit the AI, so I'd turn them off.
 
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