Know Your Enemy: Strategies for Dealing with BTS AIs

With 16 new leaders in BTS, there's a lot to know about our foes. I was hoping we could get some opinions on the behavior of the new crew, and how to deal with them. I have a few notes about some of the guys (and gal) I've crossed swords with. I haven't looked at the XML for the leaders, but here's my opinion from a few games of BTS. Please post your experiences, and the rating you'd give them on the I Must Eliminate Huayna Capac (IMEHC) risk scale (i.e. compared to Huayna Capac, how badly do you need to worry about them winning?)

Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia
Comparable to: A slightly more loyal Catherine
Zara seems loyal as long as he's decently happy with you. Like Catherine, he's very open to trade, even if he doesn't like you, but he's also willing to crush you if you fall behind in defense. Look out once the world goes Free Religion--without any religious convictions to hold him back, he can go quite psycho. He's much more loyal to you and fairly easy to manipulate if you share a religion. However, his favorite civic is Theocracy, which means you need to get your missionaries in there very early. Even if he's not coming after you at the moment, keep your eye on him--he's known to steam roll continents in pursuit of Domination victories.
IMEHC Score: 8/10. A real monster if left unchecked.

Surveyarman of Khmer
Comparable to: A less intelligent Ragnar or Shaka
Surveyarman is an absolute villain--tho sometimes in a 'Home Alone' kind of way. If he gets boxed in, he's sure to declare war, even if he doesn't stand a chance. This can make him either easy or hard to deal with depending on the situation. Never trust him for too long; like Montezuma or Alexander, he's just waiting to backstab you, tho it may take him longer. He might be faithful for a while if you share a religion, but except treachery in the end.
IMEHC Score: 7/10. An annoyance that can really mess up your day.

Gilgamesh of Sumer
Comparable to:
I played an epic game with Gilgamesh as my neighbor. All 6 nations on the continent were Buddhist, including his. Gilga was a total gentleman, getting Friendly with everyone. It wasn't until the day that Free Religion ruled the lands that he finally declared war on Ethiopia--who greatly overpowered him. This leads me to believe that Gilga is a psycho like Surveyarman when he doesn't like you, but loyal if you keep him pleased. A perfect attack dog.
IMEHC Score: 6/10. Risky, but manageable if you befriend him.

Joao of Portugal
Comparable to: Victoria
Joao is shrewd, semi-aggressive, and bribeable. Just about average overall, he seems as suitable for invasion as he for an alliance. Nothing about him has really stood out to me yet.
IMEHC Score: 5/10. Average.

Pacal of Maya
Comparable to: Hannibal
Like Hannibal, Pacal can be a great ally or a serious irritation. He techs fairly quickly, and is pretty loyal to his allies. He's also somewhat bribeable. In my games he tends to hover near the top scoring civs, not really getting too far ahead of anyone but keeping a decent score and racking up friendliness. He might give you trouble if the UN is around.
IMEHC Score: 7/10. A potential problem child.

Justinian of Byzantine
Comparable to: Cross between Mansa Musa & Isabella
In addition to being very pale, Justinian is a fairly reliable ally. Like Isabella, you can count on him chasing early religion. But like Mansa Musa, he's pretty open to trading with you even if you share a different religion. I haven't yet seen a warlike side to him, tho he seems to tech quickly.
MEHC Score: 7/10. Fair.

Boudica of Celtia
Comparable to: Montezua
Boudica has it all: good looks, a leather corset and gaellic warriors to call her own. Everything except brains. She's pushy, demanding, and a huge pain if she doesn't like you. She acts this way even if it's 10 cannons to her archer. You must hamstring her early or she will present a serious problem.
MEHC Score: 8/10. Crush her early!

Willem van Oranje of The Netherlands
Comparable to: Churchill
Nothing about Willem really stands out to me. Except that his unique unit can be a huge, HUGE pain on certain maps, because he's able to expand so much faster than everyone else. He's more of a builder than a war monger, and with his traits can blow up pretty quickly. I haven't had much trouble crushing his military, but he's like a bug with far-flung colonies all over the map.
MEHC Score: 6/10. If you can, cut off his ocean cities first.

Sitting Bull of Native America
Comparable to: Hatshepsut
There are two time periods when Sitting Bull is vulnerable-- the very, very early game and after Riflery. Forget about it during the period where the Longbow rules. With his defensive bonuses, a totem pole, a barracks, on a hill, you'll be bleeding units trying to take him. Way, way worse than trying to crack Tokugawa. He's comparable to Hatie in that he rarely declares war, focuses mainly on building, and is generally pretty easy to please.
MEHC Score: 6/10. Timing is everything.

Can anyone elaborate on their experiences with the new leaders? What observations have you made about them?

--isau

Willem is a serious space race competitor. Only ran across him a couple times, but each time he had a large empire including multiple island spots (go, go better ai!). I see him like HC in warlords/vanilla.

the khmer guy (can't be bothered to memorize his name, we need an abbreviation like Hatty...i'm going to call him "Survey")...ok, so Survey is very aggressive in my experience. i'm very leery around him now. he attacked me early in the bc era one game and i was totally shocked because i had him pegged for being peaceful. he is not.

gilgamesh seems moody but doesn't seem to jump on you really as long as you are at least pleased.

joao is a competitor. he usually has a large empire and has a high score.

haven't noticed ethiopia's power yet. had them in a couple of my games and they didn't go nuts, at least not early.

boudica will attack. she dogpiled me when i was fighting survey one time. i'm leery around her early but she falls behind in tech later so i would say befriend her early with a grin and a wink and then sharpen the knife once you pull ahead in tech later.

haven't seen justinian too much can't comment here really.

can't say too much about the mayans. in my game they keep vanishing early for some reason but hey, i figure it's historically accurate

sitting bull is not someone you want to attack early he seems to fall behind a bit in tech later and he's not much of a warmongerer although he seems to have a huge...power graph. i think he's someone you want to have for a buddy through the first 1/2 of the game at least until you can get a tech edge on him.

Glad to see a thread like this pop up! It's fun to try and get a handle on the new AI "personalities" and compare notes with other players.

I haven't had enough games against most foes to comprise a suitable sampling, but I'll share what I have gathered so far...

Pacal: So far I've shared a religion in every game with Pacal and he seems to value mutual religious faith very highly. No idea how he behaves on the "outs" but he seems much like Isabella on the religious "ins." He hasn't turned on me yet, even with a vast military advantage. The most interesting thing about Pacal so far is he seems to offer and/or accept conspicuously generous tech trades! Anybody else had this experience?

Sitting Bull: He isn't a warmonger but he has zero compunctions about shaking you down for gold, even if you are leading on the power graph. If you turn him down often enough he will declare and come after you, regardless of relative military strength.

Charlemagne: Karl is yet another foe who takes his religion quite seriously. When sharing a religion he is a reliable enough friend, but once there is nobody else left to conquer he WILL turn on you. Expands very rapidly and isn't afraid to initiate wars with the other AIs in furtherance of his land grabbing predisposition. I guess he is programmed to try and make use of his UB and he succeeds in that regard!

Suryavarman: I've also seen Sury's willingness to "do what it takes" to break out when cramped. On the other hand, I haven't seen him play the backstabber yet. He's been a pretty straightlaced guy so far in my games. I'd say he is comparable to Mehmed.

Joao: Seems very trustworthy so far. The one personality trait I've noted is that he often will not accept peace even when he is being clobbered by multiple foes. In a couple of my games the Apostolic Palace has initiated religious wars against Joao and, even though majorly outgunned, he will repeatedly refuse cease fire offers. Seems to take great offense at betrayal and remembers it for the rest of the game, but if you don't cross him he makes a reliable ally.

Willem: He is definately a build first/war later type, but he isn't afraid to mix it up with you once he has had time to build a military. He doesn't seem inclined to attack early, which is the "typical" AI attitude I suppose. He is often the lone dissenter in Apostolic Palace votes, favoring peace while the others push for war against the heretics. I find his most interesting characteristic to be his willingness to send wave after wave of water-poisoning spies even while supposedly friendly! An interesting quirk, kind of passive-aggressive lol. Inclined to chase the cultural victory as well and does so quite competently.

I haven't had enough encounters with the others yet to feel confident in making even the most general statements. All I can say is Justinian and Pericles seems to be powerful forces when they appear, while Boudicca typically flounders. De Gaulle and Darius are the only new leaders I've yet to encounter.

Eager to hear if anybody else's experience has mirrored my own.

Gilgamesh of Sumer: trade monopoly techs in one of my games.

boudica: real monster, fight war with everyone she doesn't like.

I've encountered Zara Yaqob a few times, and he has been a fricking monster every time. The secret to his success seems to be that he expands like crazy (as he should with Cre/Org) and grabs himself massive amounts of land early on. You can count on him having several more cities than anyone else in the game. I haven't found him to be overly aggressive, though he has been quite demanding, so he develops a bit of slow-burning aggro.

Boudica out-psychos Monty, in my experience, and doesn't seem hindered by any sort of religious loyalty.

My experience with him is limited, but Pacal seems the sort of man to really hold a grudge. So if you declare war on him and leave him alive, he'll come back for you later again and again, even if he's teetering on the brink of annihilation.

Darius has been a tech monster whenever I've seen him, despite fairly average empires. Seems fairly friendly and pro-trade.

I don't know what it is, but even the couple of times I picked a large map, I get very few new leaders. I've never seen Pericles, Darius, Charlemagne, Zara or Sitting Bull. Maybe even more that escape me at the moment. I tend to get Bismarck, Napoleon, Wang Kon and Montezuma a lot though.

Only had one game with Boudica as a neighbour and that made me nervous so she went ASAP.

I've had Pacal a few times and when he was on my continent he made a quick exit. Twice when he was on other continents he was a contender though. Seemed to have a pretty good sized military.

Gilgamesh seems pretty easy to get along with. I haven't had any issues with him in a couple of games. Once he vassaled Brennus as I was wiping him out and mustered a half-assed war against me. Really wasn't anything to write home about.

Joao has been a pretty serious threat every time I've seen him. Honestly of my limited experience with the new leaders, this guy is somebody to watch out for.

I've had Survey (much easier to write) twice and once he was an also ran on another continent and once he was my first vassal.

I really want to try some more of these new guys in my games and might just do an all BtS custom game.

I recently encountered Charlemagne, and you're right, he's crazy if you don't share his religion. Crazy dude declared war on me and marched through 2 other civs borders to get to me. (Or, he tried. In an absolutely brilliant stroke of luck, the turn after he DoW'ed me, I got a free golden age from a random event. Immediately after I changed religions to Hindu hoping to win some favor from Hannibal, who on the next turn used the Apostolic Palace to end the fighting against me. Awesome!)

Zara showed up again in my most recent game. I absolutely hate him. In every game I've played, he eventually turns into the primary threat. Right now he's 400 points ahead of me and everyone else. He has to die. I've noticed that he's really easy to please, which makes you want to befriend him, but then he just runs over the whole world. I need to start crushing him on first contact.

Joao still has never given me a problem. He always seem to score in the middle range for me and ends up becoming a whipping boy by the end. Maybe I've just been getting lucky.

I also had my first encounter with Darius, and as predictable, he's a major menace. That whole organized + financial thing lets him tech really fast. Interestingly, he still fell behind Zara in the game he was around. Maybe it was luck.

Zara seems an absolute monster when I've run into him. Like others have said, he seems to expand fast. A bit backstabby. Builds large armies, but not 'too big' from what I've seen. I always seem to start next to him - and that's bad news!

On the flip side, playing as him is an experience.

Found Boudica very unwilling to be bribed. In one game, I had her as an ally. It wasn't until we hit friendly that she was willing to go to war on her worst enemy at my request. She did seem incredibly loyal though. I teched her up and her troops ripped through the opposition like a chainsaw.

Not run into Abe or De Gaulle yet, anyone seen them in action?

From what I've observed so far, De Gaulle seems to be rather unpleasant; he made numerous exorbitant demands (not unlike Catherine), and got annoyed rather easily. But then again, we had different religions, so it's hard to say for sure.

Although he does start with a -1 base attitude, so that should already be a warning sign.

I have played 2 complete games (Agustus and Zara) on Prince/Marathon/huge big/small maps and started many others. Some comments on other leaders.

Khmer guy: War maniac. Was on a different continent in my Agustus win and spent about 80% of the game at war. Took over his own continent regardless of the diplomatic status, irregardless of religions. Sent an armada at me once he had the continent and took bribing someone else to fight him to get peace. He stayed at war with Brennus all the way from rifiling through my space launch. He lieks war and knows how to run one.

Boudica. Monty's evil twin sister, nuff said.

Pacal. Have not met much but what I say he can be easily befirended by religion but is not eager to bribe into war.

Gilgamesh. Tends to be easy to befriend (like Cyrus) but no someone to rush to your aid. Most of the time I can just leave him alone/

William. Seams like a classic wonder builder and easy to get along with. Was completely dogpiled by Khmer, not sure he can defend himself.

Joao. Annoying, just like Catherine. He always wants something for free, and declared war on me to try and get a tech. Never allows peace until he gets what he wants (I could not reach him with soldiers, so not sure if he would have eventually went for peace)

Hammarabi. Decent if he likes you. Very happy to get the betetr end of a deal.

Charlemange. He was very easy for me to dominate early in ethiopian win and vassal, not sure what he's like later.

Darius. good techwise. Not sure about military because he was always on a continent to himself.

The others I have not met up with enough to give an good opinion on.

Could you make a list like this for every leader? im almost certain it would make the war academy! this kind of information is priceless

isau said:

In addition to being very pale, Justinian is a fairly reliable ally. Like Isabella, you can count on him chasing early religion. But like Mansa Musa, he's pretty open to trading with you even if you share a different religion. I haven't yet seen a warlike side to him, tho he seems to tech quickly.

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If you are the founders of rival religions (he usually gets Buddhism while I take Hinduism) he can get fairly nasty. It's also important to note that because of his religious penchant, he may have an attack dog like Ragnar as his ally.

madscientist said:

Boudica. Monty's evil twin sister, nuff said.

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I actually think she can be fairly loyal to you as an ally, and doesn't seem to be as backstab-prone as Montezuma or Catherine. But definitely watch out for her if you aren't on good terms with her.

Native America Can be near impossible for me to rush on immortal. He built stonehendge in a border stone city on hills around 2000bc. I had 14 CR1 ++ axemen, and only managed to capture that one city with enormous losses. The dog soldier is the axemens worst nightmare, along with the cg3 drill archers he pulls out of nowhere. Chariots/mass siege later may be the only way to deal with this guy.

I love playing with the khmer, my first game of bts I was on the recieving end of an axe rush from him, Just a great fellow to have in the game. I tend to leave him till I need to get rid of him, just for entertainment purposes.

xfactor99 said:

From what I've observed so far, De Gaulle seems to be rather unpleasant; he made numerous exorbitant demands (not unlike Catherine), and got annoyed rather easily. But then again, we had different religions, so it's hard to say for sure.

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In my games, De Gaulle seems to have his espionage slider way up. So he techs slow and always demands stuff. He is not too afraid to declare on me, either. VERY annoying guy.

Does anyone have actual XML sheets for the new guys, rather than personal experiences? The latter are valuable too, but with such a small sample set, it can be hard to figure things out until you've played a LOT of games.

Some are obvioius, like Izzy's religious fixation. Others are subtler. For instance, I always felt backstabbed by Hanny and the XML code proved why later on.