Corporation costs, an in depth analysis!

N

NaZdReG

Warmonger
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
553
Having seen much discussion and debate on this I decided to break out the worldbuilder and figure out exactly what the corporations cost based on the quantity of nessessary resources you control.

When I have time, I will come back and expand on this to include specific strategic uses for each corporation.

Some information for comparitive tests:

INFLATION IS NOT FACTORED IN AT ALL
(solver's patch addresses and removes inflation from the equation, everyone should be using it.. it will be updated soon in an offical patch)

A COURTHOUSE MUST BE PRESENT IN THE CITY TO CONTROL COSTS
this does include the headquarters, it pays dues like every other city
my spreadsheets show the prices AFTER the courthouse is implemented, and also displays the modified prices for running free market or environmentalism

If you are going to found a corporation, it is important that you place it in the city with the WALL STREET national wonder. why?

after Grocer, Market, Bank, Wallstreet the headquarters will be producing
15 gpt for each location running that corporation

supermarket improves it a little, but please note that mansa musa gets a 10% bonus, and england gets a 15% due to their UB's

this is enough to offset most corporations with 20 resources of the needed type under their control. without wallstreet you can only break even at 10 of that resource under your control for most corporations

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THAT BEFORE THAT POINT CORPORATIONS WILL ACTUALLY IMPROVE YOUR ECON IF YOU ARE PLAYING WITH SOLVER'S PATCH

-inflation against corporate costs has been fixed with this-

if you go beyond 20 of the needed resource, it will begin to cost you gpt.

of cource you could always send the corporation to your enemies or vassals and put that 15gpt towards paying your own dues to the corporation

A few special notes based on my research:

Mining inc is the MOST expensive corporation, but has the largest payoff in hammers.

Jewelers is ALWAYS profitable!!! if you are running the buildings as I have suggested this one will MAKE you money!! finally a reason for a late artist!

Standard Ethanol produces 1 oil per instance of this corporation, you should be able to trade atleast a few of those away for large gpt.

Aluminum inc.. I doubt you'll ever see 20 instances of coal but this corp has unique synergy with creative constructions. CC can use aluminum as a required resource. so every single instance of aluminum inc under your control magnifies the results of creative constructions.

Attached are scanned pictures of the spreadsheet, unfortunately I cannot upload the .xml but would be happy to email it or enlarged pics of the scans.

When it is not so late I will reopen this and go into further detail. for the publisher of the PDF for BTS I would be happy to see this integrated into your next version!

NaZ
 
Where can i find this patch ? :) If anyone could give me a link i would really appreciate it.

Thanks
 
Standard Ethanol produces 1 oil per instance of this corporation, you should be able to trade atleast a few of those away for large gpt.
Click to expand...

I thought that corporations didn't actually produce a tangible resource that you could actually trade away, but rather that it provided the effects of that resource for the city that had that corporation? Am I wrong here?

Agree on corp hqs in wallstreet city. That is a must imo. Also, always good to spread corps to neighbours to offset your own maintenance costs. If you are lucky, they will start spreading it around as well. Of course you have to be judicious with the aluminum and oil ones.

Another thing to keep in mind is civs switching into mercantilism and state property. The ultimate fix for this is building the UN and passing env'talism (costs them even MORE in maintenance for your corps then--although for you as well). Alternatively, you can use spies to keep forcing them into free market or env'talism. Sometimes if you force a civ into FM they will stay there. Sometimes not. I usually go for UN-env'talism now to cement corporation situations.
 
I was able to run Sids Suchi in every city of mine playing as Mansa Musa (+10% gold with Mint) even running environmentalism with Solvers patch. The English and Americans would be even better with thier unique buildings. With fast GP's because of philosphy eleizabeth would be even better (and more dangerous).

Also the UN can setup some nice economic warfare using the Mali/American/English. Found 1 or 2 corps in the same city, spread them arround (Ais tend to self spread them I have noticed), then try and force the environmetlism civic down everyones throat. The mints/malls/stcok exchanges can handle the excess costs in your cities but the other AIs will crumble.
 
NaZdReG said:
Attached are scanned pictures of the spreadsheet, unfortunately I cannot upload the .xml but would be happy to email it or enlarged pics of the scans.
Click to expand...

If you'd like - I'll happily host them for you. Send me a PM if you wish and you can email them to me and I'll stick them on my ample webspace with pleasure. :cool:
 
I do have to comment that Solver's unofficial patch is far from universal. There have been hints that Firaxis will reduce corporationn maintenance when a proper patch is actually released, but it has certainly not been stated it will completely be decoupled from inflation.

A few comments on other specific points.

NaZdReG said:
Jewelers is ALWAYS profitable!!! if you are running the buildings as I have suggested this one will MAKE you money!! finally a reason for a late artist!
Click to expand...

Only true with Solver's patch, otherwise this is the weakest of the non-resource generating corporations, producing only culture at high gold costs. There exist more efficient ways of doing this. Even so, the efficient use of corporations will generate far more gold from foreign branches than is required for domestic branches. Better to convert that into something more useful like food and hammers with the other corporations. Converting gold into gold really isn't productive, especially when you tend to be inundated in it near the end of the game.

Standard Ethanol produces 1 oil per instance of this corporation, you should be able to trade atleast a few of those away for large gpt.
Click to expand...

Corporations merely allow the cities access to the resource. It does not exist in the conventional sense, and cannot be traded.

Mansa Musa and Elizabeth have a significant advantage as you point out (I'd probably class Elizabeth as one of the strongest civs now). There's no reason to have a corporation anywhere other than the Wall street city unless you're running competing corporations (which is largely pointless).

Your spreadsheets, while interesting, make no allowance for city size. Looking at the numbers involved you seem to have calculated them for a small (size 1?) city. Maintenance increases substantially with city size. In size 20+ cities (which the food corporations tend to result in), even under optimum conditions 20 resources would result in costs per turn of over 30 gold pre inflation.

Futurehermit said:
Sometimes not. I usually go for UN-env'talism now to cement corporation situations.
Click to expand...

It's a little dodgy forcing yourself into enviromentalism, as it greatly increases domestic corporation costs. Granted, you may make enough from foreign corporations for this to be worthwhile, but I much prefer the espionage approach.
 
I think Zulu/HRE have a bigger advantage to corps than America/Mali/England do. The Ikhanda/Rathaus won't help with corps in foreign cities so you'll have to actually use it to benefit but its definitely cheap enough to do so (and actually worth trying to acquire extra resources).
 
Thanks for comments so far, the couple of errors that were made have been corrected. I have redone the calculations for size 1 size 10 and size 20 cities to better reflect costs.

solver's patch should be used or costs will be out of control due to inflation

I will repost the spreadsheets later today, and I am working on a full blown strategy article for the forum.

this will include civics choice, tactical advantages to having control of these corporations, and economic warfare.

NaZ
 
It's a little dodgy forcing yourself into enviromentalism, as it greatly increases domestic corporation costs. Granted, you may make enough from foreign corporations for this to be worthwhile, but I much prefer the espionage approach.
Click to expand...

The extra health is very beneficial now though and although domestic costs are increased I prioritize spreading corps to the AIs and having them be unable to switch civics on me is a huge boon. Especially if an AI has the cristo redentor they can easily keep switching on you. Also, if an AI is far away constantly sending spies over there can be annoying. And if you have to do this constantly for multiple AIs this can also be annoying. The UN eliminates all these problems and if I'm going for corps I think this is the way to go.
 
When BtS first released, I calculated Corporate Fees down to the 100th of a point and began an article very similar to the one you are discussing now.

You can find it here:

Corporate Maintenance Explained

Even though it has been hinted at that some of Solver's patch will be made official, I am lying in wait for Firaxis' official patch before I recalculate and complete this article.

If I can be of any use to you, please PM me. I am at your service ... :D
 
futurehermit said:
The extra health is very beneficial now though and although domestic costs are increased I prioritize spreading corps to the AIs and having them be unable to switch civics on me is a huge boon. Especially if an AI has the cristo redentor they can easily keep switching on you. Also, if an AI is far away constantly sending spies over there can be annoying. And if you have to do this constantly for multiple AIs this can also be annoying. The UN eliminates all these problems and if I'm going for corps I think this is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Are you saying the UN can eliminate AI spying?
 
MrCynical said:
I do have to comment that Solver's unofficial patch is far from universal. There have been hints that Firaxis will reduce corporationn maintenance when a proper patch is actually released, but it has certainly not been stated it will completely be decoupled from inflation.
Click to expand...

QFT. My impression is corps are a little too strong with Solver's patch. But I'm sure the next official patch will make corps a lot easier to use.
 
Madscientist said:
Are you saying the UN can eliminate AI spying?
Click to expand...

I think what he's saying is that the UN locks the AI into Enviromentalism. He therefore doesn't have to keep sending spies over to the AI to keep tipping them back into enviromentalism (though they'll sometimes stick with an espionage civic change anyway).
 
Otaku you saved me a bunch of work :D

I'll put my strategic article on the backburner for now.

however I am going into my origional post and updating the sheets since I did the work. easy to print out for people to use.

with solver's patch corporations work the way they do in the real world.. they expand economy to a point. beyond a certain # of controlled resources you are paying gpt even if it is not tied to inflation.

some basic rules for corporations would include:

a courthouse in EVERY CITY THAT RUNS IT is a MUST

you need to control the headquarters, and have it in a wall street city.

if a nearby AI founds a corp you have 3 choices..
1. run mercantilism and pay a little more for your corps
2. be ready to install your corporation to oust theirs.
3. go to war and take their corp headquarters, and run grocer market bank to offset costs as much as possible

this makes it important to control mining inc OR creative constructions, sid's sushi OR cereal mills OR std ethanol. that way you can oust their corporation from your city. you are still paying but much less since you control the HQ

some early strategic thoughts:

mining inc is strong but at a heavy price, excludes other corps and is most expensive. however it does lead to quick infrastructure building and easy warmongering due to expanded production. NOT SAFE TO SPREAD TO AI

cereal mills and sid's sushi allow you to feed cities that otherwise would be running farms.. so you can build more cottages which can end up a net increase in GPT. for a GP farm you can run 5+ more specialists
relatively safe to spread to the AI

std ethanol is not that expensive, is the only corporation to make use of a calendar resource (sugar) and provides good BPT for your GPT. if you control the HQ in wall street you can have up to 7 instances of the resource and still break even producing 14bpt per city (size 20 used for costs)
at 20 resources controlled you are paying a net 15gpt for 40bpt.. quite a deal

civilized jewelers produces gold, so factor in a built market grocer and bank and this one will almost always make you a profit. if you control the HQ the $$ just rolls in. safe to spread to the AI

Creative constructions is a nice balance between extra hammers and cost plus it produces culture which helps for newly captured cities.

aluminum co is a special case. there usually are not that many sources of coal, but say you have 3 in your territory. if you run aluminum co thats 3 sources of aluminum in that city.

why does this matter? you can't trade them but aluminum is a creative constructions resource. you MUST BE CAREFUL RUNNING BOTH but you can magnify the effects of creative constructions by also running aluminum co in that city. if you can afford it you get extra BPT, hammers, culture in exchange for gpt

the chart shows base costs, now for size 1, 10, 20 cities. I hope you all find it helpful

NaZ
 
There is one point noone mentions with corps. The game is never boring once corps enter into the picture. Love em, hate em, or fear them they definitely are a later version of religion.
 
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