Debate Corner: Good living w/o college degree?

Inspired by this statement from another thread:

MobBoss said:

Contrary to popular belief you can still make a good living without a college degree.

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I open up the table to debate whether or not you can have a good living without a college degree. I myself disagree, especialy looking at statistics that People with Batchelor's degrees make more money than a person with a High School Diploma and a person with a Doctrate (PhD) makes more money than a person with a Batchelor's degree.

In turn people with college degrees, since they are payed more, would be in a possition of a higher standard of living. It's been found in a survey that adults above the age of 18 who hold a bachelor's degree have an average income of USD$51,554 compared to individuals with only a high school diploma earn an average of USD$28,645 in 2004.



CNN Source: College census income

Income in the US: Education and Gender

US Census statistics on Education and Income

You definitely can, but it's definitely harder.

I remember one of my high-school teachers (who attended college) saying that his high-school dropout brother makes more money than he does working construction.

Dawgphood001 said:

I remember one of my high-school teachers (who attended college) saying that his high-school dropout brother makes more money that he does working construction.

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How does his Construction firm handle payment? Commissions, Salary, or other?

You want a good example?

You have a degree...how much are you making a year?

Myself: I am currently making 65k a year as an E7 with 20 years of service. No college degree.

Plumbers with no college degree can make over 100k a year easily.

A former boss of my used to delight in telling me that the guy in his cul-de-sac who made the most money and had the biggest house was a garbageman.

What you earn isnt always about your degree....its about what is most in demand at that particular moment.

College doesn't automatically mean you'll be making $$$. It depends on your major.

If you want to maximize probability to make loads of money do something with Business or Computer Programming/Engineering.

You'll be in trouble even with a college degree if you've majored in French Literature or Ethnic Studies or some such.

You don't need a degree to make good money, but I honestly don't think I would be making as much as I currently do if I didn't have my degrees.

Another thing is that even if you do go to college you don't have to do the standard 4 year degree. A 2 year associates degree can also score you hella moolah.

Ok, its time to win the thread: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/Careers/02/24/cb.no.degree.jobs/index.html

Here are 20 of the top-paying jobs that don't require a degree according to Shatkin's book:


Air traffic controller

Annual income: $102,030


Storage and distribution manager

Annual income: $66,600


Transportation manager

Annual income: $66,600


Police and detectives supervisor

Annual income: $64,430


Non-retail sales manager

Annual income: $59,300


Forest fire fighting and prevention supervisor

Annual income: $58,920


Municipal fire fighting and prevention supervisor

Annual income: $58,902


Real estate broker

Annual income: $58,720


Elevator installers and repairer

Annual income: $58,710


Sales representative

Annual income: $58,580


Dental hygienist

Annual income: $58,350


Radiation therapist

Annual income: $57,700


Nuclear medicine technologist

Annual income: $56,450


Child support, missing persons and unemployment insurance fraud investigator

Annual income: $53,900


Criminal investigators and special agent

Annual income: $53,990


Immigration and Customs inspector

Annual income: $53,990


Police detective

Annual Income: $53,990


Police identification and records officer

Annual income: $53,990


Commercial pilot

Annual income: $53,870


Talent director

Annual income: $52,840

obviously it's not impossible. However the exception is not the rule. Also I notice that most decent paying jobs that don't require a degree take a high toll on your physical body. While someone is doing backbreaking labor a college graduate is probably at a desk pushing paper.

It also depends on your major. there isn't a huge demand for philosophers, classical linguists, or historians just to name a few.

MobBoss said:

You want a good example?

You have a degree...how much are you making a year?

Myself: I am currently making 65k a year as an E7 with 20 years of service. No college degree.

Plumbers with no college degree can make over 100k a year easily.

A former boss of my used to delight in telling me that the guy in his cul-de-sac who made the most money and had the biggest house was a garbageman.

What you earn isnt always about your degree....its about what is most in demand at that particular moment.

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I agree with your last statement, but I find that most of the lucrative jobs require some sort of professional degree. I think that in your case, your twenty years of military service more than made up for not having a college degree. There are certainly ample opportunites either way, its just that finding the highest paying and "best" jobs is much more difficult if you don't bring some sort of college degree.

more of the jobs that do not require an education beyond colledge are going over seas while jobs that require a 4 year degree are becoming more and more.

plumbing/carpentry/electrical are very interesting because most of the people that currently occupy these jobs are baby boomers, and will soon be retiring.

CG, I honestly think the best answer for you is to go back to school, even if it's community college and expand your studies on something you want to do. There's plenty of oppurtunities out there, but you're right, the chances of a very successful career (making $50,000) or more are very slim, there are some jobs out there (MobBoss' list is a good one), but not many in your field of study (Sorry, I'm forgetting it right now. ). Best of luck to you!

MobBoss said:

You have a degree...how much are you making a year?

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I have two degrees, an Associates and a Batchelors.
I am unemployed on the verge of being a discouraged worker.

MobBoss said:

Myself: I am currently making 65k a year as an E7 with 20 years of service. No college degree.

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But did you not have any technical training beyond High School? In looking at the pay scale for a Seargent 1st Class in the Army. After 10 years, they are payed USD$36,734.40 and after 26 years, payed USD$49,190.40. If you are making USD$65,000 a year, then you have gotten some sort of advanced technical traning to achive a pay rate the same or similar to that of a Chief Warrant Officer - 4 w/ 26 years of service.

I also know a retired Chief Petty Officer who has a college degree in Electronics (or something related to electronics and computers)

MobBoss said:

Plumbers with no college degree can make over 100k a year easily.

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But do they have a technical degree?

MobBoss said:

What you earn isnt always about your degree....its about what is most in demand at that particular moment.

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I however disagree, what you earn is always about your degree. If not, then explain why Doctors are payed more than a person with an Associates? Cause there is a huge gap between the pay they get and their level of education.

Red Door said:

CG, I honestly think the best answer for you is to go back to school, even if it's community college and expand your studies on something you want to do.

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To be honest, I don't have a job and I graduated from College three months ago. How am I suppose to return back to school when I don't even have a job to pay for it?

Also, to add this is not about me. This is a debate if you actually earn more money with a college degree.

Something that people sometimes forget to factor into the equation is the 3-7 years of lost income from earning your degree and the cost of your degree. Thatsa also 3-7 years of promotions and pay rises or you could be an apprentice and get payed while you "study".
Plenty of jobs pay well and can be done with a high school diploma. Its the uneducated and unskilled people that will get in trouble. Being a labourer on a construction sitye may not pay well but being a qualified builder, electrician or plumber here can pay better than alot of jobs where you need a degree.

However a degree can be job insurance as well as you can often get jobs that are not actually related to your degree. My friend studied food science and his first job is $43000 a year working in a bank and he is 22/23. A degree might also help youget a job you want as opposed to a job you need.

CivGeneral said:

To be honest, I don't have a job and I graduated from College three months ago. How am I suppose to return back to school when I don't even have a job to pay for it?

Also, to add this is not about me. This is a debate if you actually earn more money with a college degree.

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Get a job. You're a college graduate, there are oppurtunities out there, you just got to look for them.

Well, then, it's not much of a debate, of course you earn more with a college degree, with the exception of a few special cases.

I guess you could make pretty good money, but hey, it's definitely a lot harder. "I can do more without a college degree" is what people who don't go to college say to make themselves feel better.

Go to college. Don't drop out. There are exceptions and whatnot, but come on, what are the odds? Do it.

Although my dad was personally quoted as saying "If you can even get into Harvard, I don't really care if you drop out." So heh.

CivGeneral said:

In looking at the pay scale for a Seargent 1st Class in the Army. After 10 years, they are payed USD$36,734.40 and after 26 years, payed USD$49,190.40.

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Don't forget:

Jump Pay (I know, he's a dirty nasty leg, but it's possible)
Housing Allowance (or free barracks for E1-E6)
Free Medical (how much is this worth, and he isn't even counting this, I bet)
Food Allowance (and free meals on post)
Spouse pay (I forget the term, but they give you extra money if you are married)
And then there's sign-up/re-enlistment bonuses.

There are many additions to most people's base pay (which are the figures you are looking at).
Also, life insurance at a VERY discounted rate

If you do a 4 year stint, and take the college money, pro-rate 50k over the 4 years.

With benefits quantified and college money pro-rated, the average 18 year old who signs up for 4 years makes about 40k/year. Plus free training in any technical occupation they choose.

My brother is doing construction and is earning big money without even a highschool education, so yes it's possible.