Cultural Victory Challenge: Zara Yaqob

Having seen so many challenges and so few cultural victories, I am planning to start some games in which the objective is to get such a victory. The purpose of these challenges is to demonstrate the paths one can take, and the factors that come into play, in order to achieve a cultural victory. In doing so, not only should other players learn firsthand how they come into play, but also for me to learn how to improve in achieving such victories.

I am going to start with Zara Yaqob of the Ethiopians. Although I've never specifically pursued it in offline games, his traits and UB suggest he is a good candidate for a cultural victory. Those strengths:

* Creative: The +2 culture per city per turn comes in handy.
* Organized: Not so much for the trait itself as it is for what to pursue... Code of Laws for its cheap courthouses, with founding Confucianism ideal for one of the religions to spread. Also, Caste System for increasing the number of artists before Drama and Theaters coem along.
* Stele: The additional 25 percent culture increase per turn makes this building very useful for pursuing a cultural win. The best option would be to build Steles individually and forget pursuing Stonehenge.

As far as other paths to pursue, I'm open to suggestions. Obviously, Music should be a priority tech for both the free Great Artist and the Sistine Chapel. Aesthetics would be good, as several of the wonders unlocked are useful for generating culture, and in the case of the Parthenon, can accumulate Great Artists points.

So now that I've outlined a basic strategy, I'll be happy to take more input. I should have a save and starting location available later tonight.

Oh, and as far as settings go, I'll start with Noble for now (since I'm still learning how to best utilize tactics what with new gameplay concepts and an AI that does things differently from vanilla CIV) and go with a Normal map with the Hemispheres option. Sound good?

Why forget stonehenge? Its free steles in every city. But more importantly its a source of both culture in itself and great prophet points - a great prophet can help you both found religions and build holy shrines which generate a lot of culture.

Regarding Stonehenge, that begs a question... do the free Steles vanish when Stonehenge becomes obsolete? Just don't want to lose the culture they provide, unless that also goes away now in BtS (I don't think it does, correct me if I'm wrong).

At any rate, I generated the save... forgot to mention this will be played at Epic speed. Here is the starting location:



So we have lots of forest... perfect for chopping whatever may be needed. Not much else is revealed around the settler, though, except for some pigs nearby.

Since everyone loves to talk about the start, should I settle in place or move the settler? Maybe 1S onto the plains hill to see if we can get more land revealed? And where should the scout go?

Saved game is attached for those who want to shadow... remember, you _are_ aiming for a cultural victory. The other victory conditions are still enabled (for AI purposes, though), but a successful challenge calls for a cultural victory.

Any thoughts before the opening round are welcome.

Don't go one south - you will need that pig - it looks very food poor. It doesn't look better to the N - I would send the scout SW just in case there is good green land to the West, but probably settle in place.

And no the free steles won't disappear when you get Astronomy. But they do obsolete and their only benefit is the culture from being an old building. They behave exactly as if you built them - stonehenge just builds them for free.

With hemispheres and a non coastal start you may not even want to tech Astronomy.

I'll be lurking this one. I like Zara and my cultural game could do with a brush up.

As Invisible said, you may not want to go to Astro. 25% culture in your 3 cities is a big factor.

I'm almost positive the free steles disappear, but it's still not a big deal, only 2 culture per turn before modifiers but after the "ancient building" bonus. However, you get 8/16 culture in a city which more than makes up for it. It may still not be worth building it due to opportunity costs, but the culture isn't a reason not to get it.

Settle in place. You are guaranteed to get another resource or two to the east, but those forests are too good to pass up. You can chop whatever you like (settlers, workers, wonders), then cottage up and run bureaucracy. Stonehenge seems a no-brainer for me, then oracle-->CoL sling. Hopefully you will see some stone nearby too, for those culture boosting wonders in the mid-game.

The only 'problem' with stonehenge is you'll get a Gprophet. You may want to run a completely "clean" game with only artist generating wonders.

Have you thought about Pyramids? Representation all game with artists running all over the place? Also Shwedagon for early Pacifism = more artists ( but it gives a prophet)

If a cultural victory is the goal, why go past rifling and liberalism? I'd forget about astronomy and keep those steles good.

For the cultural victory you need 3 cities and preferably some religions. I made 3 different cities. One concentrating on great prophets to bulb theology and divine right, 1 science city to bulb pacifism and 1 artist city. Got my cultural victory in 1800 on normal speed. Great prophets that emerged after bulbing were merged with the city who had the least hammers/culture (sixtine chapel was already build by me). Every city got an acadamy, every city had a shrine and had 5 religions. Played the diplomacy game. Only got 6 up (1 flipped) so I could build like 3 cultural multipliers in each city.

The thing I noticed which is very important, get at least 1 high food city to run artists. Get at least 1 high production center to go wonder crazy. The other can be a hybrid. I went cottage style and turned the culture slider up after liberalism. Could have ended likely 10-20 turns earlier if I went full culture slider but wanted biology.

About the game, it looks like your capital is low on food. Pigs are great and I expect another food source to be there. Also copper or iron in the hill S of you.This could be a good production center. Warrior 1NE to get a better view of the surroundings.

OK, so it looks like our capital is going to concentrate on production for some time and probably get some of the key wonders. And yes, I'm betting there's either copper or iron to the south of the Settler.

I like Killroyan's plan of getting a GP-farm city that can concentrate on generating artists. The other city should ideally have some production available to allow for quick construction of Wonders.

Good point about Astronomy... sounds like after getting to Liberalism and some of those military techs, that will be the time to stop research.

When the capital is settled, I think I'll build a Scout first, then follow with a Worker. Two Scouts should reveal much of the map and help in deciding future city locations.

As far as a preliminary tech path, I think AH and BW need to come first, then follow with Mysticism. If there's Stone or Marble in the capital's BFC, then get Masonry. If not, then maybe just beeline to Code of Laws unless there are other Worker techs that would be needed?

Hopefully I'll have an update tonight if all goes well.

The capital has tons of forests. If you just chop the forests on grassland to build cottages, then it might be a fantastic place for the national park if you tech to biology. Getting 10 free artists would definitely help. And not much else you can do with all those plains. Some can probably be cottaged but I don't think you have enough food to cottage them all.

That is a fine UB for a cultural victory, and as has been said, I imagine you can delay astronomy forever. But I think this is the only thing that makes this leader good for culture (granted it is a very strong bonus). Creative is actually pretty much a non factor in a cultural victory ... +2 culture on epic for say 500 turns, at an average multiplier of 200%, that's only 3000 total culture for each city. Generate 3 extra GA with philisophical, and that's 6000 per city. Cheap theatres is nice, but cheap forges or cheap universities, or cheap temples are all just as useful or more. Organized is not much of a contributor to a cultural win. You don't need to be Org to pursue CoL early.

But I still think that UB is pretty powerful.

Traits I like for cultural (and some comparisons to creative)
Industrious is very nice ... you will want forges, and a cheap forge is great. Wonders are the best early source for a lot of culture, so this is very strong. Build one extra wonder in each of the 3 cities, and you've at least doubled the cultural benefit you would have gotten from creative.

Philisophical ... Getting a few more GA is of course excellent, and even more important, Phi gets you your earliest Great People a lot earlier. This is key because for most of the game a settled GA is better than a culture bombed GA (even more so with Sistine Chapel). Cheap university is probably more valuable than cheap theatre. You will build both, and university is more expensive.

Spiritual ... the often overlooked cultural game power-trait. You will be building a lot of temples in a lot of low-production cities to allow all those cathedral buildings. Half price is nice. A big part of cultural victory is diplomacy ... switch out your religions as often as you like. No anarchy civics changes can be absolutely huge in a cultural game ... 1 or 2 of your 3 main cities may be low production ... you will need to whip culture buildings, but you will also need to run caste system. It is very powerful to run OR and Slavery for 5 turns, whip a building in most cities, go back to caste system and pacifism, run GA.

I don't have any problem with your choice of leader, and think that UB is very strong. Just a few things to think about if you do this again.

The UU is pretty well timed for culture though - gives you strong defense when you start to turtle.

Generally there are four approaches to culture:

- Keep teching to liberalism, democracy, get three religions along the way. Stop research, rush temples and cathedrals, go 100% culture. Fastest, but risky as your defenses drop. Your culture cities are primarily cottages. Remaining cities are farmed. GP farm generates artists.

- (Best with industrious). Keep teching to mass media, building every single wonder you can amongst your culture cities (high production). Remaining cities run towns. When culture cities aren't building wonders they run artists. Build and spread religions and cathedrals as much as possible - at least three. Slower, but fairly safe as you can keep your military up to date.

- (Best with philo). Run all culture cities as artist farms. Remaining cities run towns or mines. Build Sistine Chapel. Spread religions. Run representation. Settle early artists all in second best culture city. Culture bomb third best culture city to legendary status.

- Another approach now is to go for the late game corporations that generate culture. Still spread religions and build wonders, but don't switch to 100% culture until the corporations are in play. There are some threads in the BTS forum on this.

The last approach might be good for this leader, with a mix of the others thrown in. We don't have a particular advantage for any of the other approaches. The benefit of the last three approaches is that your research keeps going fairly strong - in fact you can still warmonger.

Round One: 4000 BC to 3075 BC

I began the round by moving my Scout, and he uncovered a goodie hut that would be claimed with a border pop provided I settle in place... and that's exactly what I did.

We have flood plains in the BFC, so that will help with food as well and definitely allows the option of cottaging up the capital once we've got some production completed.

My Scout popped for plenty of gold and two more Scouts, so I ended up with four once I finished the one in the capital. I checked the growth carefully, given that the governor likes to emphasize food over everything else, even if you give him specific orders to emphasize something else. I grew to size two and finished the first Scout before it grew again, then switched to a Worker.

Animal Husbandry was our first tech, acquired in 3600 BC, and Bronze Working was my next choice. I found two sources of Horses, more on that later.

In 3575 BC, Hinduism was founded, and the founder is our neighbor, Saladin. I don't think I need to say much about how he is, do I? Buddhism was founded a few turns later.

After Bronze Working, I went for Mysticism. There are two sources of Copper, but it was not on that plains hill, on which forest still hasn't grown, making me wonder if Iron is there.

My Worker was completed in 3075 BC, and I stopped here so we can discuss the next steps to be taken. Here's the map of the continent.



As you can see, it's just me and Saladin so far, although I wonder if there's another small continent to the south, or if there's a land bridge I've yet to find. Now, it is Hemisphers and I picked two continents, but I played one offline game with that setting and it still generated two small ones near each other with a third one somewhere else. If that peninsula isn't part of another small continent, or there isn't a land bridge in the southern part I haven't uncovered yet. then Saladin is my only neighbor.

So let the debate begin about what to do with Saladin... since I don't have Copper in my capital's BFC, an Axeman rush would take a bit longer to get to... but more importantly, Saladin has Horses in his borders, so he has the counter to Axemen. Not to mention that he's Protective, plus his capital is a holy city, so if an early attack is to work, it would be ideal to have a mix of Axemen and Swordsmen, plus a couple of Spearman to counter any Chariots he may build. And if we do opt for the early attack, then Iron Working should probably come after Mysticism so we can locate Iron.

Other possibilites could be REXing in hopes of keeping Saladin in check, thus allowing me to attack him at my leisure, or if Hinduism spreads to me (and it's very likely it will, because Saladin himself is sure to send a missionary should I open my borders), convert and buddy up with him for a while... again allowing me to pick the right time for an attack.

Of course, whatever approach is taken needs to be balanced with the cultural victory goal in mind.

So what shall our plan be with regards to Saladin? Whether we attack early or delay, Hinduism is a near lock to be part of our civ, so that's one religion out of the way. Code of Laws and Confuciansim are still in the plans, and then it's just a matter of determining the third religion to get.

Build queue... I think a Warrior is in order for city defends, but then do I build another Warrior, followed by a Settler, or go straight to Stonehenge?

Tech path... does everyone agree Iron Working should be next after Mysticism? Or should I consider something else?

And finally, there's the task of picking city sites... there's plenty of good land surrounding the capital, so finding appropriate sites should be no problem, it's just a matter of creating a dotmap.

Saved game is attached and I welcome your thoughts.

At work here, can't see saved game.

From your screenshots, it appears that you and Saladin are alone on the continent. Therefore, he needs to die.

I would build two cities to your NW and SW to block him off, while grabbing the copper and food there. Tech to IW and build a fourth city if necessary to get the iron. Assuming you have Iron, chop/whip a force of 12-15 swords and axes and take him all the way out, starting with the capitol. Raze everything else.

That leaves you with five cities (4 of yours plus Mecca). If we presume Mecca is going to be one of your culture cities, and your capitol is another, then you need to find one more culture city after that and at least 3 more other cities (if you're doing the 9 city / 3 religion gambit). The floodplains to your SE may be a good spot for culture city #3, but I can't be sure because I can't determine if there are a lot of deserts there.

Its noble remember. The earlier you can attack the better. Saladin doesn't start with archery - rush him as soon as you can before he builds a lot of archers. Three chariots or axemen will do - you may discover only warriors in his capital. If you do find archers then you can pillage his workers and keep him suppressed until you build up an army to take him out.

The next tech you need is wheel. You don't need iron working unless Saladin is stronger than you expect.

OK, the next round is going to be short as I uncover more of the map. I'll progress until a Settler is built, then update, and hopefully I'll have my own dotmap ready to go for input.

With any luck, the update will be later tonight.

Round 2: 3075 BC to 2450 BC

OK, so it's a short round, but I'm trying to take things step by step as we figure out the best way to contain, and eventually take down, Saladin. And a big part of that will be exactly where to place the cities going to the west.

I went with Invisible's suggestion to go with Wheel as the next tech after Mysticism, then I went for Iron Working after that.

I had the Worker mine the plains hill first, then do the pasture for the pigs. I wanted to get the city to grow to size 3, but then slow down while the Warriors were built, so I could then chop and whip the Settler out.

My Scouts confirmed that I am on a continent with Saladin and nobody else, and all that remained to the south was a peninsula, not a land bridge. There's a chance that there may be a small continent to the south, though, but that will come later.

I did one forest chop for the Settler, and when it came to the second chop, the Worker would finish in five turns... but that's how many turns were left to finish the Settler. I was trying to remember the rules on forest chopping and whipping, and then remembered that it would be best to whip the turn before the forest is chopped to maximize hammers on the overflow. And that's exactly what I did.



So now I have 65 hammers overflow going into Stonehenge, and the city will grow to size 3 again the next turn, thereby allowing me to work the mine while my Worker chops more trees.

And now, that brings us back to the map again. I took a different screenshot so the terrain closest to Aksum can be seen.



OK, so I want to go to the West, and obviously, claiming the Copper is priority. I'm thinking of founding 1NW of the Copper, and that will claim Corn as well. Or would founding 1N of the Copper be a better spot? Thoughts?

I see at least two city sites I could claim to trap Saladin on the west edge of the continent. It's pretty obvious he's along the coast and likely has plenty of seafood. His Worker seemed to be doing nothing but build roads (and I tried to get a Warrior out to steal the Worker, but he never appeared near the border) and he lost those thanks to a flood (one of the random events).

I want to work on a dotmap to figure out the best city sites nearby. There is plenty of land to the east that should allow us to build as many cities as desired. I do welcome input from those who like doing dotmaps, though.

As for the tech path, after IW, I'm thinking of Agriculture as the second city will likely have Corn in the BFC, regardless of where I settle. Then it should be time to tech toward Code of Laws.

What should the second city build to start? Obviously, it needs a Worker, but cities of size one are slow to build them and my current Worker needs to chop forest for Stonehenge. A Barracks would be on a build list, but should it really come first? Would it be better to build a Warrior to start in the hopes of being able to steal one of Saladin's Workers or catch his Settler coming out, provided he has no Archers defeding it?

Saved game attached.

Second city 2W of copper should also get pigs. You badly need workers - probably more than you need early stonehenge. Chop another worker, then build stonehenge. The other worker can develop your second city and get the copper online, after which it can complete its barracks, build another worker of its own and then chop troops while the capital finishes stonehenge.