Patch 3.13 early thoughts

Ok playing a marathon/huge/13 civs/rand pers/agg ais/hemispheres game from fresh, Im up to 500 AD ish.

Now one part game doesn't necessarily mean anything but a couple of wary points.

Firstly, 5 civs on my continent, all teching much, much faster than before, which is good. BUT not one single war anywhere, between anyone yet on my continent, and Im playing very risky, as Im Jewish and the rest are Hindhu (I have the AP, game just turned out that way). Also, no messages (which are normal by now) of any Great Generals being born anywhere yet.

As I said, its rand pers, it just could be "one of those games", but I really hope agg ais hasn't become wimpy ais.

Secondly, and this just left me opened mouthed. I've been trading wine to Mr Bull in exchange for dyes for quite a while now, then the screen comes up that he has cancelled the deal. Ok fine, no probs there but he's still willing to trade his dyes, so ok lets make a deal.

Here's my fair offer (which I've never seen refused before).



Here's his refusal, and what he thinks is fair (and bear in mind that he definitely doesn't have wine himself.....



If you are opened mouthed still like me, time to close it, its ungainly

But really WTF? Please let this be another very unlikely occurance, its bad enough having to put up with ridiculous tech trading where the player has to come out at least 25% on the worse side, but this is so taking the unmentionable words fail me....

Anyways, I'll stress again, one game doesn't make a championship (unless your the damn Patriots this year), but just some early observations from me.

Post your thoughts/findings here if you will, I'm interested to find out what others think.

Thanks.

I've noticed the much faster tech rate also, though I've only played one 3.13 game.

I was just about to post about this trading anomaly....

I might try to ask "What do you want for this (1 fur)" and then they proceed to ask for 5 items from me! Then, some time passes and then he offers his 1 fur I wanted for only one item (versus the 5 he asked for before). This occurred with all the leaders.

Hes protective those guys are always stingy, and I got spanked hard before AD1 in my first 18 huge immortal. I dow on saladin to liberate a couple holy cities at 1000 bc, capture the jewish and hindu cities, next turn, Shaka, brenus, etheopia,ragnar, and hannibal all dow on me, which was fine for a while since I was doing my own violence economy(plunder money transition into cottages after no one else is a threat), and had over 30 units by 1000 BC, So everything went well I captured around a dozen cities, and made peace, with all but etheopia. His stack finally arived after I thought it never would, and almost everyone else dow on me again. I crushed Zara's stack, but was eventually crushed under the combined might of shaka, brenus and what little was left of saladin.

I play on Aggressive AI and I'm up to 1400AD. Other than a war I started, there hasn't been a hint of any other wars around the World (Large Map, Normal Speed, 12 Civs, Monarch). Not a good sign. AI seems to be teching very slightly better. The blitz for ships will nice when I get there. Otherwise, meh. NBD so far, esp. for 121 megs. Maybe changes will be more pronounced later in the game.

Makes you wonder if the AI tries to bend the other AI's over in a similar fashion, or if he it just gets out the rubber glove for the human player.

Don't mind the AI favoring other AI the higher the difficulty, but it shouldn't rip you off...

Venger
P.S. Of course, you can always just go and TAKE the dye. Perhaps it's time to remind Dances With Wolves who owns the continent you're on.

Sometimes the AI is just really, really stingy. I have encountered times like this even before the newest patch, so my guess is you are just in "one of those games"

Underdawg said:

I've noticed the much faster tech rate also, though I've only played one 3.13 game.

I was just about to post about this trading anomaly....

I might try to ask "What do you want for this (1 fur)" and then they proceed to ask for 5 items from me! Then, some time passes and then he offers his 1 fur I wanted for only one item (versus the 5 he asked for before). This occurred with all the leaders.

Click to expand...

Yes, I just played on another few turns (after ignoring his idiotic request), and he's completely happy to go back to wine for dyes.... Beginning to look like a bug......

JFLNYC said:

I play on Aggressive AI and I'm up to 1400AD. Other than a war I started, there hasn't been a hint of any other wars around the World (Large Map, Normal Speed, 12 Civs, Monarch). Not a good sign. AI seems to be teching very slightly better. The blitz for ships will nice when I get there. Otherwise, meh. NBD so far, esp. for 121 megs. Maybe changes will be more pronounced later in the game.

Click to expand...

Wow, thats pretty crowded for a large map, which would previously (with agg ais) almost guarantee non stop warring after the land has been taken.....

Not a good sign as you said...........

I've had the same problem. Pacal was friendly with me, but he wanted five of my resources for one of his. When I didn't agree to that, he kept suggesting other deals where he got several resurces for one of mine. Perhaps the AI is now more aware of how urgent your need for additional food items or luxuries is, and knows how to exploit it.

Venger said:

Makes you wonder if the AI tries to bend the other AI's over in a similar fashion, or if he it just gets out the rubber glove for the human player.

Don't mind the AI favoring other AI the higher the difficulty, but it shouldn't rip you off...

Venger
P.S. Of course, you can always just go and TAKE the dye. Perhaps it's time to remind Dances With Wolves who owns the continent you're on.

Click to expand...

Erm actually he does at the moment. I had no copper and no iron anywhere near me, and had to go half way across the continent with chariots to take a barb city which had iron. This (and me going for early religions and missing them all) has put me behind quite a bit. I'm at crossbows before Vultures for all intents and purposes.

That and me being at the bottom of the powergraph for ages , plus them all one religion, me another......I can't understand why noones come and trounched me. Very weird.

Öjevind Lång;6016879 said:

I've had the same problem. Pacal was friendly with me, but he wanted five of my resources for one of his. When I didn't agree to that, he kept suggesting other deals where he got several resurces for one of mine. Perhaps the AI is now more aware of how urgent your need for additional food items or luxuries is, and knows how to exploit it.

Click to expand...

I actually hope its a bug instead, as what you suggest would make already tedious one way diplomacy and trading, now so "anti-player" as to act as nothing but a game spoiler. Not fun in the slightest, if trading partners try to proverbial take you from behind all the time. A slight imbalance if they thought your need was greater than theirs (maybe 1 for 1 plus a few gold per turn) might just be tolerable, but even 2 for one similar value commodities is really taking the piss (unique commodities that is, I mean one you or the dealer don't have a source of already)...........

You mentioned that you were playing with aggressive AI on, right?

And you're not playing against a bunch of ghandi-like characters, I assume? Never know with random personalities. Also, what difficulty?

draethor said:

You mentioned that you were playing with aggressive AI on, right?

And you're not playing against a bunch of ghandi-like characters, I assume? Never know with random personalities. Also, what difficulty?

Click to expand...

Yep, agg ai. Im Sumer, Monarch lvl to test changes. Babylon had a massive army early on (and still do) but they've just sat there and watched their neighbours expand and outech them, without raising a finger in protest. I've had no threats, no demands to change my religion, and even though 3 of the other 4 are willing to go to war with one another, noone has "kicked it off", and noone has "enough on their hands right now" either............

You think that's bad?





I'll just take that ivory by force, thankyou very much lizzie.

Hrm. I've just been messing around with starts, etc, I'll boot up an easy noble pangaea with a ton of aggressive opponents on aggressive AI. If there isn't a constant spectre of war, you might have a case for something being wrong Back in an hour or so!

Can someone confirm whether or not this is now normal AI behavior in 3.13 including in non-aggressive mode? If it is I'm going to stick with 3.02.

I'm playing a huge pangaea with 17 of the most aggressive civs (montezuma, alexander, etc).

First dow in 575 BC... Probably par for the course. This should be an absolute gong show with aggressive AI, one huge landmass, and the 17 most aggressive civs. Only noble difficulty though, should've at least gone prince to get the full effect.

Update: 4 civs just dogpiled caesar - 125BC. All 5 of them are of the same religion too and have positive relationships. Still seems aggressive to me.

draethor said:

I'm playing a huge pangaea with 17 of the most aggressive civs (montezuma, alexander, etc).

First dow in 575 BC... Probably par for the course. This should be an absolute gong show with aggressive AI, one huge landmass, and the 17 most aggressive civs. Only noble difficulty though, should've at least gone prince to get the full effect.

Click to expand...

Look forward to your findings ! But I need right now ....laters.

DrewBledsoe said:

I actually hope its a bug instead, as what you suggest would make already tedious one way diplomacy and trading, now so "anti-player" as to act as nothing but a game spoiler. Not fun in the slightest, if trading partners try to proverbial take you from behind all the time. A slight imbalance if they thought your need was greater than theirs (maybe 1 for 1 plus a few gold per turn) might just be tolerable, but even 2 for one similar value commodities is really taking the piss (unique commodities that is, I mean one you or the dealer don't have a source of already)...........

Click to expand...

I don't know. I was in contact with other civlizations at the time, but I was alone on my continent (having killed off Huyana Capac), and Pacal was the only one I could trade with, (he lived on a neighbouring continent.) We both had lots of resources the other one didn't have, but his *minimum bid* was consistently three of mine for one of his. He even spurned an offer of horses, iron and clams for his dye: "Is that the best you can do?" Of course, I believe he had someone else on tap he could buy horses from if he needed more horsemen, but even so, I find it remarkable. They used to come panting when they lacked horses.

It should be added that I did not have oceanic trade yet, and he and several other civs had, so perhaps he thought that meant he could engage in a bit of blackmail. But I wasn't that desperate; I managed all right without his goods.

I'm encountering a bug whereby none of my buildings show how much culture it contributes on the tooltip...

@ Desemondez: That bug has also been reported at:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=245959

So you're not alone in noticing it.