Cultural Victory Challenge: Gandhi

In this series of challenges I have started, the goal is to achieve a cultural victory, a victory type I have not often seen achieved in the challenges presented here. I will be using several different civs that have strengths that can be leveraged to achieve such a victory.

In this challenge, the leader is Gandhi, who is Philosophical and Spiritual. He starts with Mysticism and Mining. His strengths suggest pursuing religions and getting plenty of Great People.

The settings are Hemispheres (two continent) on a Standard map, Noble difficulty and Epic speed.

Here is the starting location.



Marble is perfect, as it allows us to speed up the construction of several Wonders that will help with a cultural victory. We've got riverside territory for cottaging and seafood, so Fishing will be a priority tech.

I think I should just settle in place and then pursue either Meditation or Polytheism to claim one of the early religions. Then get Fishing and Bronze Working, followed by other Worker techs that may be needed, depending on what's revealed to the east.

I don't think there's argument about settling in place, but how does the tech path sound? And any other input on how to leverage Gandhi's traits toward the cultural victory?

Saved game follows.

Religions and cathedral spam with a nice artist GP farm should to the trick.

Oh man! You win! Ive spent considerable time (certainly more than necessary) trying to perfect a cultural win with Gandhi and that start is simply awesome. Might partake in this challenge when I get home just because I like that start so much

Since it is noble, I would grab fishing then polytheism.

Fishing is cheap, and shouldn't prevent founding hinduism. Problem with religious teching early is nothing for workers to do. You can build 2 fish boats if you go fishing first, and get the city developed. I doubt you will miss Hinduism by delaying it on Noble.

Going for culture, I see no reason not to grab 3 of the 4 early religions, balancing builder techs in there.

Fishing
Polytheism
BW (chops, bronze)

Then, depending on what else is to the east, likely:

Agriculture
Masonry
Monotheism (OR and Judaism)
Priesthood (open up oracle)
Pottery
Writing
Set for CoL from oracle.

Alternative: also research Meditation, and self research CoL and grab philosophy with oracle (not sure how risky this is on noble, but in my prince walk through game, Oracle still wasn't built in the ADs)

Along with CoL from Oracle strategy, could whip library when 1 turn from finishing oracle (it will wait to complete until ready for CoL), run 2 scientists,
use scientist to pop philosophy for ultra early pacifism.

This sounded like a fun game to try, even though I play on emperor level usually.

It's 1230 AD, a few turns from Divine Right which will give me my 5th religion.
3 cities over 100 culture/turn, and just started building first cathedrals.

Awesome start, this could be the game I claim my first Cultural Victory in, when I get my precious vacation... Ehm... Settle in place definately, and tech path, as mentioned, should be Fish->Poly->BW->Mason->Mono-->Writing->Priesthood, grab Oracle for Theocracy or CoL...

Eventually, you could use the two clam spaces (2) to make a try at the 7headed hydra?

Round 1: 4000 BC to 2750 BC

A fairly short round as I played until a religion was founded and the initial tech path I decided was completed.

I settled in place and went with the gambit of going for Fishing first, followed by Polytheism. Unfortunately, I wasn't the first to Poly, and somebody else had founded Buddhism, so the gambit didn't work.

So after that didn't work, I targeted Monotheism. With Marble in my BFC, Masonry was going to be a priority anyway.

I did get some help on tech path, though, as I popped Bronze Working from a goody hut. On the flip side, I lost one of my Warriors who was exploring when another hut popped out a Barb.

And after missing out on Hinduism, I got to Monotheism first and founded Judaism in Delhi. And this is where I stopped. Here's a look at the map.



I've already built a Workboat and the Fast Worker is building a quarry on the Marble. I need to get a couple more Warriors out so I can get my first Settler out. Then I'll likely build another Fast Worker, and then decide on the first Wonder to pursue.

Stonehenge would be nice, but I'm thinking maybe the Temple of Artemis should be pursued instead? I've got Marble, so the ToA may be a better option.

Thoughts on where to go next on the tech path? As you can see, there's no Copper to be found. Animal Husbandry may be an option, as there are Cows in several possible city spots. And, of course, there's the Writing/Priesthood path to get to Code of Laws through Oracle.

A dotmap is in order, and if anyone wants to jump in, feel free. Saved game is attached.

Settler ASAP. I would settle 1S of cows, grabbing stone and wheat. For a cultural victory, wonders are gold, and having stone and marble makes it easy. Have capital keep building for expansion, and once stone site is settled, capital can build stonehenge and GW while city 2 chops the pyramids.

Get at least 2 workers ASAP. City 2 should probably build worker first.

With all of that wine and incense just south of you on the river, I think you need to beeline for Christianity <g>

Seriously, not a bad idea maybe for a cultural victory, since the AP is very useful. I've won a cultural victory with Gandhi on warlord level, but haven't tried him on noble yet for cultural. (I did get a diplomatic victory with him, though. I've got to say, I think the India is probably the most versatile civ for peaceful victories, with great UU as well as a great UB.)

OK, so build path will be two Warriors (including the one being built) then straight to a Settler, whipping on the final turns, then a Worker. Get Stone/Cows/Wheat city founded.

Tech path, thus, should be to AH, which also reveals Horses. After that, probably should go with Priesthood.

And oh yes... change to Organized Religion. Haven't done that yet.

....Temple Of Artemis is great for religion hydra as it provides a free priest for against prophets for shrines. Just my 2

Now give me that vacation! I'm stressed!

Looks like you may be isolated. This can help during a Cultural Victory, since no Aggressive civs are around, but it may also hinder teching.

Lotsa happiness resources, so Monarchy and Calender are priorities-Calender especially so you can see where you are in relation to the globe. Looks like you're a little north of the Tropics, since there's minimal jungle and the indicators are pointing down. Commerce is in large supply, but it looks like production is low. I see a city site already:

One tile south of the cows, on the coast. Instant hook-up to trading network via Sailing, and the fatcross has Cows, Wheat, and STONE!

After Animal Husbandry, Pottery, Sailing, and Writing are all set, grab Iron Working and start founding religions. A 5-headed hydra is the best bet, since clearly there are other Spiritual Civs. The 3-headed hydra may be all you get though.

ouch @ the tech situation. Obviously your looking to pop 15+ GA's before like 1000 AD or so so get those cities out there 20 turns ago... With marble you obviously want pantheon. Any other world wonders aren't very good(well a couple others of the +great artist ones might be usefull). Basically look to cottage up 1 maybe 2 cities 4 floodplains corn city can run like 18 cottages i think. You realy don't want overlap in this city as i want to work all it's titles. Might have to have the capital use some of the floodplains, haven't done the math but at least that river city looks nice. Captial can spam GA wonders / run great artists. The weath cow (stone) city can also run some great artists(though not too many obviously still enough to produce some in pacifism with philo). Other than that there is an non-seaside cow/corn/crab city that may be able to run quite some artists. Obviously you should be first to confuncanism and philo easy. Hope to get spread 1-2 more. Obviously you don't want to get a great priest so i would strongly avoid getting oracle in capital unless it is unavoidable(you do have marble after all...

Stone cow weath city is obviously strictly worse than the tripple floodplains + corn city so no idea why you want to found it first... Most of the great artist stuff require marble right?(pantheon is a must national epic and eventually heroic epic somewhere too i guess). You do need horses or maybe even gasp archers to defend against barbs though at this level they aren't that much of a worry... Pyramids might be usefull so you don't need to get to democracy to be able to be able to rushby but stonehenge in capital is a very bad idea(as is oracle since you want the pool to be pretty pure). As long as you can get pantheon up in time + code of laws it might be a good idea to get some combination of pyramids / oracle / stonehenge in the cottage city(which isn't going to run artists, this is also going to get the most cathedrals obviously). I can't see if your isolated but if you are you should just focus on settling the 9 most beneficial cities(you are playing standard right?) get the 3 religions and then lib for something along with as many usefull wonders as you care to stuff in your cities without poluting the great person pool too badly(you want loads and loads of great artist remember). There is another tripple floodplains city that might be used for cottages though it can only run like 13 cottages or something so might not be worth it... That would prolly need the most culture bombing(obviously bombing is better than settling most of the time). You could farm it a bit to have it grow faster to size 13 then cottage over the farms. main gp farm is likely capital(though not very good it will likely have some good wonders(ie pantheon and other great artist wonders). Cow / stone /weath city will also run some artists(more after irigation obviously). You can actually get all wonders you want at prince(though this might not be smart as it would produce a very wide varity of stuff). Hopefully you'll find some double fish + other food positive titles or something to get even more great artists. Settle the cities start generating GA's everywhere. Cottage up the 1-2 cottage cities, farm everything else(to get more GA's). No reason whatsoever to expand past 9 cities(or more if it is larger than standard map). Get religions and culture buildings in your 3 cities then spread religion and build temples everywhere while buildings GA wonders in capital. You did read the fast cultural diety thread going on in the hof forum right?

(yeah i know i should prolly have used some paragraphs).

Stonehenge and oracle in capital is definitely not bad. The great prophets can be used to build the shrines and pop the religions. I had 1 GP/GE city in my last cultural victory game, 1 GS city and 1 GA city (parthenon, globe theatre, sistine chapel, national epic). Later switched all specialists of course to artists. Production city is right now more important then heavy food city.

do you really need to play on noble level?

My gandhi strat when going for cultural has 3 keys :
- keeping away from any unwanted war,
- grabbing (not necessarily founding) as many religions
- using the philo and spi traits to juggle between $ and pop rushing and getting as many great artists as possible (from pacifism + mercantilism + caste system +representation to universal suffrage, slavery, orgrel and back again)

well shrines are pretty bad... they won't give you 4000 culture over the course of a game... and having shrine + oracle + stonehenge will definatly give you more GP's for even more wasted culture.

Consider Sistine Chapel. +5 for state religion buildings and +2 per specialist.
W00t.

Diamondeye said:

Consider Sistine Chapel. +5 for state religion buildings and +2 per specialist.
W00t.

Click to expand...

sistine chapel is the wonder that allows your GA farm to reach legendary status almost as fast as the rest.
This is really huge.

You have stone, you have marble, you have production sites, it's noble.
Getting much of your culture from wonders is perfectly reasonable.

I think Great Prophets are fine. Settle them to help with all that building you need to do.

All early wonders are useful just for their culture that will double in 1000 years. I think stonehenge is 6 culture? It will soon be 12, and with 5 cathedrals and free speech, that's 54 culture per turn.

Round Two: 2750 BC to 1775 BC

So I headed down the path to Animal Husbandry through Agriculture, as that was what would be needed for city No. 2, given its location. I also added Wheel so the Marble can be hooked up and to hook up the two cities.

This required I do fogbusting as there were a couple times in which Barb Warriors would show up after the second city was built. And I built it in the Cow/Wheat/Stone spot suggested.



As it turns out, I am not isolated... Charlamegne is my neighbor. He's already Annoyed with me, as he's the guy who founded Buddhism.

And we will not be building Stonehenge... that is because it was built just a moment after I finished my second Fast Worker, and opted to build a Jewish Missionary to spread religion to Bombay, so I could get that Stone online sooner. I suspect somebody already had access to Stone or prioritzed that ahead of building a second city.

After Wheel, I picked up Priesthood and am working toward Writing. Here's a look at the map.



Charlamegne is off to the east, and from what I looked at on the map, he's on the coast. So it looks like we have the same situation as last time... me and another guy on the same continent. The difference here, though, is we aren't close to each other and have room to expand.

I started Oracle in Delhi. I think ToA is still worth a shot, perhaps in my second city. But first, I think the second city needs to build a unit and a Settler, and after Delhi completes Oracle, that city will also work on a unit and a Settler.

As far as techs go, after Writing, I'm heading to Iron Working. No Copper that I've seen and Horses are far away, so IW is a priority.

Lastly, REXing is probably a good idea, so I can take as much land away from Charlie as possible. War is inevitable, but I can wait until I've build up a proper invasion force to take him down. With no Copper and no nearby Horses, and Charlie being so far away, an early rush won't happen.

Saved game follows. And FYI, I won't get to the next round until Sunday at the earliest, so there's plenty of time to discuss the next steps.