Civ bts - Greek Phalanx Unit

E

Elite Hoplite

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
32
Hi, In Bts the Phalanx unit looks like a typical Spartan Hoplite in the early ages. But he doesn't have a red cape as all spartans do. In the game, the spearman is the weaker version of the old Phalanx. The Spearman has a linen armor which is more stronger and used in later ages for Greek hoplites. It looks like a convential Greek Hoplite. The new Phalanx has a muscled bronze armor, and the design of the helmt indicates that it is on of the very ealy designs. This interpretation of the hoplite is appalling, any ideas? Also, The Phalanx should have a shock promotion due to their effectiveness against melee as well as light calvary.
 
The shield is also a bit small, isn't it chin the knee? Well there are actually lots of inaccurate presentations or interpretations of a typical Greek hoplite in this game. The Phalanx is also a bad name to describe them, as the game dosen't show in animations any formations relevent to the phalanx. Sid must of really messed up on this games historical accuracy.
 
Elite Hoplite said:
Also, The Phalanx should have a shock promotion due to their effectiveness against melee as well as light calvary.
Click to expand...

If you think that's inaccurate, just look at the phalanx in vanilla/warlords. The phalanx there was a spearman replacement, so it got beaten into the dust by melee infantry (axemen and swordsmen). The real historical effectiveness of the phalanx (or hoplite or whatever you want to call it) against infantry is represented in the fact that it is now an axeman replacement, which by virtue of its attack bonus is automatically good against melee. But the phalanx doesn't have the same weakness against chariots that axemen do, thus representing "their effectiveness against melee as well as light calvary".

(That being said, I still prefered the old spearman replacement, but the current version is nice enough.)
 
I absolutely hate the phalanx. It's the worst unit in the game in my opinion, which is just absolutely absurd for Greece...
 
Elite Hoplite said:
Hi, In Bts the Phalanx unit looks like a typical Spartan Hoplite in the early ages. But he doesn't have a red cape as all spartans do.
Click to expand...

Well that's because the Greek civilisation in the game represents all of Greece, not just the Spartans.

In response to your point about the animations, I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that the graphics in Civ IV are symbolic rather than realistic- each unit has one, two or three people to represent would would otherwise be a whole cohort. As you're not complaining that the people are far too tall and the armies far too small with oversimplified combat (i.e. one man hits other man, man falls over), I assume you accept this to be the case. And as you can't make a phalanx out of three units, you can't really expect them to have accurate animations.

However, I do agree that, instead, the unit should be called a Hoplite, as a phalanx is a formation, but that's a simple change to the XML. Also, the spear should be much longer- pike size- as the spears the unit currently holds aren't going to keep the enemy very far away.
 
bonafide11 said:
I absolutely hate the phalanx. It's the worst unit in the game in my opinion, which is just absolutely absurd for Greece...
Click to expand...

Really? They've worked out for me in past games. Why do you dislike them so much? Is it because the AI rarely spams chariots?
 
bonafide11 said:
I absolutely hate the phalanx. It's the worst unit in the game in my opinion, which is just absolutely absurd for Greece...
Click to expand...

I think the Gallic Warrior is worse. Guerilla I?!? Maybe building a swordsman with copper is OK.
 
I don't have a problem with the Gallic Warrior. Promoting along the Guerrilla line is awesome for making medic units that are unstoppable on hill positions. These guys can eventually be upgraded to machine guns. Having 3 Guerrilla III, Combat I machineguns on a hill guarding your stack of rifle/grenadier/cannon is completely OP (even if the AI has infantry!) It's just as good as promoting down the drill line just in a different way.
 
blitzkrieg1980 said:
I don't have a problem with the Gallic Warrior. Promoting along the Guerrilla line is awesome for making medic units that are unstoppable on hill positions. These guys can eventually be upgraded to machine guns. Having 3 Guerrilla III, Combat I machineguns on a hill guarding your stack of rifle/grenadier/cannon is completely OP (even if the AI has infantry!) It's just as good as promoting down the drill line just in a different way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I still prefer a scout/explorer medic for the main reason that they will rarely be singled out of a stack to defend. Upgrading the Gallic Warrior to a Machinegunner is the best way to go.
 
bonafide11 said:
But scouts/explorers can't get Woodsman III for the medic promotion...
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I will use my first GG on my super-medic and give it Medic III. I will have other units in the stack with Woodsman III.
 
I was just going on the Gallic Warrior (comes bundled with Guerrilla I promo) line of thinking. I don't think they're the best UU, but I do believe they have a decent roll. Same thing for the Viking UU. Galleys are still the transport ship when the viking UU is used (comes stock with amphibious) and therefore, they can't possibly be used to their potential considering you'd have to spam galleys. So in their given era, they are sort of a mediocre to crappy UU. But you can upgrade them to rifles, then infantry, etc. So you could have an infantry with CR I/II/III and amphibious. That's the true strength of the Viking UU. I can't really think of a UU that is truely useless.
 
oh yes gallic warriors (who can be built with copper) that can be upgraded to guerilla 3 with 5 xp, an thus have a 50% withdraw chance, rubish that! cant ever think of how that might come in handy.

As for the phalanx a unit that counters it's counter, no cant be good at all that
 
lol. me likey sarcasm, me likey sarcasm... okay blitzkrieg1980, calm down, your a big boy now...

That simple sarcastic post by peter450 actually makes me want to start a new game as Pericles ;)
 
glad to be of service

But i cant help but get riled when i see people rubishing units like the phalanx an Gallic W as the worst UU in the game when it's so blatently not the case, sure they might not be the all singing an dancing prets, but there are far worse UU out there
 
I think the BTS Greek Phalanx are among the best UU's in the game. There's few other units that have been so effective during early rushes an warring.
 
yatzee again! I really wish someone could make a valid and complete case against a particular UU. I can make a fair case against the Navy SEAL, but I'm sure other people can provide situations (common and rare) that the SEAL is a great UU. Basically, I feel like the Navy SEAL is barely an improvement over the regular marine unit. So they have 1-2 first strikes? big deal. IMHO, I don't send my marines in until my fighters and or artillery has sufficiently ruined the coastal city's defenders. March isn't that great for this unit, either, since I rarely move marines around anyway (besides from transport to city ;) )

To make the SEAL a solid late game UU, they should start with commando. That's it. No first strikes, no march, just commando. I would so use SEALS then.
 
But the Navy Seal begins with the March promotion! That's a huge bonus... In fact, it's the same promotion the Phalanx was supposed to get according to pre-BTS rumors, but they apparently found that too powerful. The phalanx only comes in handy if chariots are trying to attack them, which is not often the case when playing against the AI. Otherwise, the phalanx serves no purpose. And this is the unit that is supposed to represent the greatest military prior to the Romans!

Actually, I think the Phalanx should get the Commando promotion, and thats it.
 
bonafide11 said:
But the Navy Seal begins with the March promotion! That's a huge bonus... In fact, it's the same promotion the Phalanx was supposed to get according to pre-BTS rumors, but they apparently found that too powerful. The phalanx only comes in handy if chariots are trying to attack them, which is not often the case when playing against the AI. Otherwise, the phalanx serves no purpose. And this is the unit that is supposed to represent the greatest military prior to the Romans!

Actually, I think the Phalanx should get the Commando promotion, and thats it.
Click to expand...

Try an early attack against an AI opponent with access to horses - invade with your 8 axemen and see how long they last.
 
Silence101 said:
Try an early attack against an AI opponent with access to horses - invade with your 8 axemen and see how long they last.
Click to expand...

...Or I could just build one spearman to put in the stack of Phalanx and it'd do an even more efficient job against the chariots. Plus, that spearman would continue to protect my stack once the enemy discovers horseback riding, which the Phalanx would not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Some thoughts about the unit variety in Antiquity (mainly for Greece and the Mediterranean civilizations) that was revealed in Pax Australia
Replies
4
Views
744
AntSou
AntSou
bengalryan9
Civ Discussion - Greece
2
Replies
35
Views
1K
javier51
J
Lonecat Nekophrodite
Unit between Spearman and Pikeman
2
Replies
39
Views
5K
BuchiTaton
BuchiTaton
Lonecat Nekophrodite
[Mod Potential] 4 Age systems: Add Medieval Between Antiquity and Exploration Age.
Replies
12
Views
766
Lonecat Nekophrodite
Lonecat Nekophrodite
E
[BTS] Earth Equatorial Islands - a more accurate realistic map for Civ4 BTS RFC
Replies
6
Views
2K
Gen1_
G
Back
Top Bottom