Spoiled with Financial .

Well thats the jist of it . I am so used to playing financial civs ( basically financial + x trait ) that I find myself having a much more difficult time playing a non-financial civ . For me that extra commerce is so valuable and keeps me ahead in both peace and war . During peace time , I really jump ahead , even on noble , by a whole array of technologies . If I'm by a coast , the AI is nearly ALWAYS going to lag , at least on Noble and below .
When I'm at war , I can still have a high research rate and stay in the game .

I'm now TRYING to play civs without the Fin triat to get more better rounded and take advantage of other awesome trait sets . But I really embarassed myself ( only in front of myself since I was playing AI on warlord difficulty ) with Boudica . I found that I lagged signifigantly but still kept a lead on the AI UNTIL I went to war . My pace was messed up and I was frustrated I don't have that smoothness with research that comes with Financial civs . I went to war with Monty on warlord and kicked his ass pretty much ( I love those CR 3 Gallic Warriors ) but then found I started lagging big time on research . Even pillaging with chariots didn't = enough $$$ to keep my research high and all my good techs would take 20 turns or so . I even tried to destroy all of Monte's city just for the revenue to make up the lost $$$ and didn't want to incure more expenses ( we were divided by a penninsula but he was the closest neighbor) . Even all this , and I fell behiend two AIs and then I got so frustrated at this that I accidently clicked a conquered city for domination ( install governer) and then just shut down the game .

For me not being FIN feels like a serious handy-cap but I want to get good with alll different kinds of leaders/civs , not just a particular kind .

I'm too used to playing a Fin ( / usually ORG with Darius) that I left myself horsehockey with other civs . I'm trying to cure this but I would like some imput on some seasoned vets that normally play with the non-financial ( or organized even) civs .

Thanks .

you rushed too early I think and got cities to spread out.

Also, try running philosophical and a specialist economy if you aren't running a financial leader. Get an early CoL and crank out the great specialists you need (scientists and merchants are the big ones, prophets and GP for corporations for abusing wall street + multiple religious HQs and corporation HQs for late game).

Be cruel, raze and pillage. Keep your number of cities 6 or below before CoL.

Yes, financial leaders can be very addicting to play with. The commerce bonus is huge. However, don't think of playing as a non-financial leader as a handicap. Traits are bonuses, simple as that.

A good way to keep up in tech is to use great people(even without philosophical) and learn how to tech trade properly. I normally have 3 extra great people using normal stuff and about 5-6 with philosophical. When teching, go for techs the AI doesn't normally go after.(You easily get a feel of this) Only trade techs that the AI has and be prepared to keep tabs on the teching of other people(look at diplomatic advister: techs category) When one person finally gets that tech, trade off that tech to catch up with the AI in techs that it has researched. I repeat do not be afraid to sell techs(as long as the gold-to-beaker ratio isn't crazy) to other nations that someone else already has. They're going to get it eventually and the extra gold really helps at going 100%.

I'm also interested to know if you use the oracle slingshot to find confucianism. I do that and using my GP points from oracle and stonehenge to make the holy shrine. The extra gold can be very helpful if you have a good amount of cities.

All great tips . Well I am having a successful game . I am playing on warlord for easier AI until I get the feel of things with a non-financial leader . I picked one and its working out great and his name is AUGUSTUS CEASER . Yep the gold ol roman is pulling through wonderfully . I found a fairly simple way to counter my financial difficulties , that was building near a coast . I guess part of it is luck since all my key resources happen to be very close to my city . I just started and have about 4 cities up .

I'm playing all the AIs on a standard map so all room is pretty much taken . I know 4 cities for Augustus isn't all that much since he's Imperialistic and can build settlers REALLY FAST . The fact that he can build wonders at a fast rate is simply great . I already have Mouri Statues and the Collosus up along with Oracle and Stonehenge . The two sea wonders are awesome giving me production and commerce to boot letting me tech really fast . I'm about 6 techs ahead of the AIs right now . I am building a good amount of Praetorians and catapults for the set invasion of my neighbor . The IND trait is paying off nicely .

I used oracle to actually sling shot to metal casting so I can build quick forges to help production . I have a good set of mines in 3 of the 4 cities and everything is building in the low single digit range
I am the only one with code of laws and will probably use Antium ( the founding city of Confuscism) to get my GP farm running . So far I got 2 GPs , both Prophets from Rome alone obviously because of the wonder buffs . I also built the Kong holy shrine of Confuscism and now just have to spread it to two of my cities , missionaries on the way . I preserved most of my forests and only chop rushed when I had to . I try to do this for National Park obviously .

I have 5 workers , I call the ' A team' , I dispatch them to each city and work them simutaniously until all of the improvements I want are built around the same time . Maybe I just got lucky , I found Copper and Horses all within Rome's fat cross and the Iron is near by but not accessable by the fat cross but the 4th city can tap it . Theres Monty , as usually , right up against my cities . I'm thinking of annexing his border cities and wiping out the rest . He doesn't own a religion so theres not holy city to worry about . He's next to some nice gems in two cities near my border , you can bet those will be mine .

I'm REALLY liking Augustus . His traits work well together and now I'm about to see some GG emergence when I wipe out Monty , maybe Isabella too . Isabella is to my south and she managed to bust out the Great Wall . Unfortunatly for her , Madrid the capital is close to my border , totally annexable and you can bet I'll take Great Wall and the Buddhist holy city
Btw , since I never conquered a civ with the Great Wall ( I usually had it ) does it work like other wonders and transfer over to me once I conquer Isabella's GW city ? That would be bad ass adding another 100% to my 100% buff for GGs ( in my borders of course )

Other than that , my 4 wonders and her great wall are all thats built so far . I'm having NO TROUBLE with economy this time and its running just as smooth as Darius . Now time to bust out these Praetorians and reek some havoc .

Oh and Im getting ready to build the Roman Forums which are nice for that extra 25%GP generation and making a couple merchants . To be truthful , since I played with Darius so much I never saw the need to really focus on a specialist economy but I can see how it would be useful here and getting representation to boot . Hell , I can build the Pyramids now in under 20 turns and chop rush them if I want ( since I preserved most of my forests) or set the fat cross to higher production .

Well , thats all , I just wanted to say I'm really satisfied so far . I think the main thing was building by the coast ( even if I have to walk there with a settler a couple turns) and then busting out a quick colossus with Ind. Augustus . I also build a few cottages for extra leverage .

GT_OKEZ said:

...

Oh and Im getting ready to build the Roman Forums which are nice for that extra 25%GP generation and making a couple merchants . To be truthful , since I played with Darius so much I never saw the need to really focus on a specialist economy but I can see how it would be useful here and getting representation to boot ...

Click to expand...

boom bada bing... I was just gonna suggest to emphasize the SE.

Your ability to adapt is all you will ever need

Augustus Caesar is more overpowered than financial (which is not overpowered) because of his praetorians GT OKEZ.

The trick to getting out of playing Financial leaders is to master the Specialist Economies. Specialist cities get little to nothing out of Financial. If you're good enough at it that you can support your research and spending on nothing but Specialists, then you won't miss Financial.

Try Napolean. He's Organized/Charasmatic. Organized, is a good replacement for getting out of the Financial loop, and Charasmatic is just about my favorite trait in the game. And yeah, do the specialist economy thing. I used to go Cottage Economy, but found that the SE is the way to go.

Great Pyramid is even more valuable for non-financial leaders. SE with early representation can let you easily out-tech a fin leader. That's why sometimes I'd rather see stone near my capital than even gold. Combining with Great Library you'll win every liberalism race.

Another wonder related strategy is to use great wall to get great spy. Beeline to alphabet then steal techs. One great spy easily give you 4-7 techs. This allows you to hang on with the AIs to buy time to set up your economy (e.g. cottages to grow, build courthouses/markets, library for scientists etc)

Organized trait is a good substitute. In certain maps it could even be better than fin. Early expansion, beeline to CoL, chop/whip courthouses and use some specialists will get your economy/research back to respectable quite quickly.

Well I just got done playing a game on noble . I like Augustus but ditched him for Percipalis ( Cre/Phi) . Since I had the intent of having a specialist economy why not use a Phi leader ? It worked out great . I was outteching the AI the whole game . I REALLY underestimated Creative . I never really played with a Creative civ because I always deemed the trait one of the most useless . I was wrong . The culture pops are awesome . In fact , I boosted my cultural advantage so much that I was capturing key resources on the border in enemy territory just by over taking them with culture .

I used caste system/ representation/ shifted between Theocracy-Pacficism / Mercantilism / shifted between Nationhood+Vasslage the whole game and I whipped some major AI butt . In fact Percipilis was so good that I might even like him better than some old time favorite financial civs . I was popping out GPs like it was nobody's business .

I made one mistake though , I aquired techs the computer was hungary for and found myself going to war to protect my dignity a few times but always came out on top . Next time I need to bribe techs .

I think one of the funnest things I did in this game was put all artists specialists and produced GAs. I would go to the border towns and drop a few culture bombs and ' choke' enemy cities . A few times I aquired free cities like that as they demanded to be annexed to me . Throwing a spy in there to instigate revolt was a nice touch too .