"Shadow" schedule

[Kael]

November 23rd

The Empyrean

     “While the Order wages war, the Empyrean discusses.” - Capria

Where the Order values law, the Empyrean values wisdom. Adjudication started from the teachings of Lugus and punishment is not based on adherence to a labyrinthian codex of laws, but from direct consol on the merits of each case. Social equality and impartiality are the model between a government and its citizens as well as between empires. As such the Empyrean gives equal voice to small empires as it does those that dominate Erebus.

The Empyrean is founded by the first player to research Honor. It allows access to the following units:

1.     Ecclesiastic, disciples responsible for spreading the teachings of Lugus.
2.     Vicars, priests who act as the eyes and ears of their superiors. Vicars have access to the Whitefire spell which does extra damage to vampires.
3.     Luridus, high priests of the Empyrean who have access to the powerful Crown of Brillance spell, an enchantment that does holy damage to all enemies around them every turn.
4.     Radiant Guard, a melee unit that doesn’t require a building and has access to the Blinding Light spell.
5. Ratha, strong chariots with the ability to cast the Blinding Light spell and a bonus vs recon units.

There is no unique civic or tech for the Empyrean (in “shadow” some other religion specific civics and techs have been removed). Their most powerful function comes from their shrine, Dies Diei. Dies Diei founds the Overcouncil.

The Overcouncil

Any good or neutral player that has researched the honor tech can join the Overcouncil. Being a member grants a significant diplomacy bonus with other members. It also forces members to comply with any degrees that the Overcouncil has voted and agreed on (unless the player wants to defy and leave the Overcouncil). These degrees can enforce a defensive pact between all the members, force war or stop trade with another player, outlaw death, entropy or shadow mana, etc. Overall these laws can be powerful and restrictive. Players that expect to remain members of the Overcouncil should expect to enjoy the advantages of the friendships it allows, but also be subject to its control. That is unless they maintain the relationships required to be voted the head of the council and get to pick the decrees themselves.

The Empyreans unique hero is Chalid Astrakein (the Malakim have a new hero) and as well as a slightly different build than in “fire” he is also a councilor. Giving the player that controls him an additional vote in the Overcouncil.

Strategy

Overall players that opt to follow the Empyrean will find it plays differently than other religions. It is a powerful force if the player is able to maintain strong diplomatic ties. Converting players to good or neutral alignments and keeping them on the Overcouncil allows for diplomatic alliances that don’t exist in earlier version of FfH. Warmongers that simply want to capture the nearest empire (regardless of their alignment or effect on diplomacy) will probably find it difficult to tap into the Empyreans true power.

In my games I’ve gone after two different strategies, either passing out the Empyrean and gifting the honor tech to everyone as soon as possible (with tons of disciples and such) to create a world united on the Overcouncil. As long as I can maintain leadership with a world of competition this works great and my ability to crush those few that don’t comply works really well.

Lately I’ve been going for a more targeted strategy. Pick 2-3 strategically significant partners and just pursue them as Overcouncil allies. This makes the Overcouncil easier to control and as long as no outside empire or group of empires forms up against us we are usually able to maintain as well. I’ve grabbed all my surrounding empires for this, then adopted a builder strategy since I can direct my neighbors into wars with those that threaten me.

It is important to note that even though the Empyrean shrine founds the Overcouncil, and it requires the tech that founds the Empyrean, you don’t have to follow the Empyrean to be on it. Any good or neutral player can join. Next week I’ll talk about the Overcouncil’s chief advesary, the Undercouncil.

Screenshots

Spoiler:

November 30th

The Council of Esus

“The second most dangerous enemy is the one whose power and influence is vastly superior to yours. The most dangerous enemy is the one whose existence you are not aware of.” -Arian Kothrax, High Councillor

An oddity among the religions the Council of Esus has no disciples, priests, high priests or temples. Instead all of its abilities are practiced by units that worship the religion. Any unit that worships Esus can pay to spread religion in a city. That theme, paying for miracles, is common in the Council of Esus.

The Council grants access to a few special units:

The Nightwatch- Poison wielding archer that starts with hidden nationality

Shadowrider- powerful religious national unit (a player is limited to 3) with an affinity for shadow mana who ignores building and terrain defenses when attacking. Shadowriders start with hidden nationality.

Shadow- The shadow unit is no longer open to everyone, instead it is a Council of Esus only national unit.

Gibbon Goetia- Gibbon is the hero of the Council, an illusionist with the Impersonate Leader ability. Using the ability sacrifices Gibbon but allows you to take control of another civ for a few turns. While you are in control of another civilization there are some things you cant do (you cant disband their units, trade away your techs, etc) but you do have considerable control over how they act. Take over a civ to push them into war with your enemies, or move their units away from targets you would like to capture. When the random period of control is ended you are returned to controlling your original civ.

The Council is a hidden religion, meaning that only other players with the Council as their state religion will know you are following it. So you avoid the negative attitude penalty for having a religion opposed to non-Council players while getting the bonus from Council players.

But the most powerful feature of the Council is the sneak attack ability. A player who has the Council as his state religion doesn’t have his units moved out of enemies borders when war is declared. Be careful who you open your borders to.

The Undercouncil

The Undercouncil serves a similar purpose to the Overcouncil. Like the Overcouncil it is founded by using a prophet or a merchant (in “shadow” prophets can build all the holy shrines while many shrines have a 2nd great person that can also build them) to create a shrine in the Council of Esus holy city. It can only be joined by Neutral or Evil players, and although they don’t have to worship the Council of Esus to join, they can’t be members of the Overcouncil.

The Council of Esus is run by money, nearly all of its resolutions cost gold from its members. They can vote to declare war on a common enemy, and open borders to each other. There are no restrictive resolutions on the Undercouncil, they never vote to enforce a civic or outlaw anything. The Undercouncil also has several special resolutions:

Enlist the Nightwatch- all players to pay for the resolution gain a few Nightwatch units.

Develop Secret Codes- Technologies can only be traded with other Undercouncil members.

Fund Dissidents- Has a chance to create riots in non Undercouncil cities.

Gambling Ring- reduces the production cost of gambling houses in all your cities.

Slave Trade- All Undercouncil members can buy and sell slaves (in “shadow” the Slavery civic is open to all evil players and isn’t limited just to the Overlords).

Smuggling Ring- Allows access to a new building in coastal cities.

Equipment

A true equipment system has been added in “Shadow”. No longer will killing Orthus with a fireball result in the loss of his axe, instead it drops on the ground right where he stood.

We are not implementing “common” equipment. We have no plans to allow players to start manufacturing and outfitting their units with a variety of swords, bows, horses, shields, etc. Though that is certainly possible with this system. Rather we want to use them for special, powerful objects.

A Healing Salve can be purchased through a rare event and heals the unit that consumes it completely. Orthus’s Axe is obviously equipment now, but Hyborem also has a trident that grants +2 unholy and vulnerability to holy damage to its wielder. Barbatos also has a staff that grants death affinity, and Donal Lugh has a shield that gives defensive strength.

Some equipment can be added to cities. These are all wonders you are familiar with, the Infernal Grimoire can be carried as equipment and read to produce random results, the Crown of Akharien protects any unit that wears it from magic, Sylviens Perfect Lyre and the Dragons Horde don’t give the unit that carries them any special benefit but since they are equipment they will be spawned if the city is razed to be collected, and the owner can always pick them up and take them to other cities if desired.

There is a reason I decided to talk about the Council of Esus and Equipment at the same time. Recon units that worship Esus gain the Steal ability. This ability gives them a chance to steal equipment from a city or other unit in their stack. If successful they get the equipment, if it fails war is declared against that civ.

Clan thieves sneaking into Acherons city to try to steal his horde, or slipping over into your neighbors cities to steal the Lyre or the Staff of Souls are all possible now, and make playing the Council of Esus very interesting.

Screenshots

Spoiler:

December 2nd

The public polls for the design contests have been posted. Be sure to go vote for your favorites entries.

Design a Unit 3 Contest
Design an Event Contest
Design a Wonder contest

December 7th

Guilds

This is the area of “Shadow” that I am most interested to hear feedback on. Guild don’t have many similarities to their BtS Corporation brothers. We borrowed some of the functions, but little of the actual implementation. Guilds in “Shadow” don’t provide resources or follow a unified model, each was designed to perform different functions.

Before I list the guilds I want to talk about one of our design structures for “Shadow”. We tend to design loose structures and then fill in the exact implementation of that structure as we go on. The structure (which doesn’t have any game relevance) inspires the design and maintains a design consistency that would not be possible if we were just adding in cool ideas as we thought of them.

In creating the Event structure Loki came up with the following event types, Rebellion, Judgement, Inspiration, Crime, Economy, Deals and Prophecy. Then we assigned each Religion a strength and a weakness to each event type (Octopus Overlords for example has a strength in Prophecy and a weakness in Judgement). Strength and weaknesses in an event type is considered whenever an event is created. So a positive Prophecy event may only trigger for OO players, or OO players may receive a better option to deal with a Prophecy event, or having a temple of the Overlords in a city may affect a prophecy event, etc. Weakness to an event type may mean that the player won’t receive a positive event of that type, or will be forced to pick a bad option for that event.

Of course a design structure isn’t intended to be 100%, it’s only a guideline. We are free to break it if it is better implemented differently. But we hope by having it that there is some feel for overall logical consistency as you play. So a Runes player will run into different event challenges and opportunities than an Order player.

We also carried this structure through to guilds, just as there are 7 religions and 7 event types, there are 7 guilds. Each guild was given a strength in a certain event type. The guilds are:

Aerons Bounty

Founded by- Event, an Assassin of sufficient rank can become Aeron’s Chosen, which allows him to found the guild.
Spread By- Assassins can spend money to spread the guild into other cities.
Effect- Boosts xp of all recon units created in the city.
Event Strength- Rebellion
Notes- Aeron is the God of Blood and Murder, patron of the Calabim. This guild’s effect is nice but its real strength comes from its effect on events. Paying a few gold to the local assassins guild, if it has spread into the effected city, is a quick and easy way to handle dissenters.

Brotherhood of Wardens

Founded by- The Brotherhood doesn’t have a headquarters
Spread By- When a city is razed the Brotherhood has a chance to form in another of the victims cities
Effect- Boosts city defense
Event Strength- Judgement
Notes- This is a “Rubber Band mechanic”, a mechanic that helps equate weak players against the strong. Getting an increase on defense in your largest city without the brotherhood when you get a city razed not only helps to take the sting out of the loss but may actually stem the overrun that sometimes occurs when one Civ rushes into another.

Circle of Gaelen

Founded by- Event, if the rebellious apprentice is allowed to pursue his experiments
Spread By- Once founded the guild is automatically spread to all the controlling empires cities with mage guilds
Effect- Boosts xp to all spellcaster units created in the city
Event Strength- Inspiration
Notes- Gaelen is quoted in many tech and pedia entries. A good guild for those that favor the unpredictable there is an event chain that leads up to this (designed by Nikis-Knight) can be risky as well as rewarding. The xp boost is nice, but having the guild in a city also allows the player to experience some new inspiration events, most of which are good (though sometimes Gaelen’s ambition surpasses his talent).

Cult of the Dragon

Founded by- Event, only the Kuriotates or the Sheaim have a chance to trigger the founding of this guild in their country
Spread By- Event, once it is founded events make it possible to spread to other cities
Effect- Exposes the city to a variety of negative events, which don’t affect Kuriotate and Sheaim players
Event Strength- Prophecy
Notes- The Cult is never a good thing for non-Sheaim and non-Kuriotate players. Sabotaging production and causing unrest are the effects of having them in your cities. Fortunately every spread event allows the player the opportunity to stop the spread, and every maligious act gives the player the option to step in and purge them from your cities. You just have to decide how draconian (no pun intended) you want your rule to be when dealing with those who act against you.

Guild of Hammers

Founded by- Building a Wonder
Spread By- Event, an event could offer the player the opportunity to spread the guild to his other cities for gold
Effect- Boosts production and halves upgrade costs
Event Strength- Economy
Notes- Money is good, and these guys act like a free ingenuity trait. Well, maybe free is a bad word since nothing the Guild of Hammers does is for free. They may request forges be built in all your cities, or simply be willing to establish guildhalls for the right price. Either way it is up to you to decide if their benefit is really worth the cost.

Guild of the Nine

Founded by- All mercenaries can found Guild of Nine locations, the first creates the headquarters.
Spread By- Mercenaries can spread the Guild of Nine to other cities.
Effect- Event, allows the player access to positive events that allow them to purchase units. Also players can always hire mercenaries in Guild of the Nine cities.
Event Strength- Deals
Notes- Hiring mercenaries is nice (they can’t be built anymore) but the real strength of the guild is the occasional opportunity to hire experienced units. They usually come ready to fight with a few promotions and can allow you the chance to grab units you don’t have the buildings or resources for, or to get units with unusual promotions.

Ratcatchers Guild

Founded by- Event, in a city with crime
Spread By- Event, any city with a certain population and crime rate has a chance to trigger the creation of a Ratcatchers guild
Effect- Increases the crime rate of the city
Event Strength- Crime
Notes- There is a new city attribute called the crime rate. Some building increase the crime rate (Gambling House, Market), and some decrease it (Courthouse, Dungeon). Every crime event requires a minimum crime rate before it can trigger in a city. Minor crimes are pretty low, major crimes require a significant crime presence. In this the Ratcatchers Guild is a mixed blessing. It both increases the crime rate in the city, making crime events more likely to happen there, and it often offers bonus options to dealing with those crimes. It’s up to you to determine if you want to use the local thieves guild to work out the problems, or try to run them out of your cities.

As I mentioned I’m very interested to hear feedback on the guilds implementation. The linking of religions, events and guilds makes it a much broader mechanic than simply adding 7 guilds each with a specific effect. There are currently about 130 events in “Shadow” and I expect that number to triple before the final version. The guilds themselves are meant to be relatively minor game aspects (we don’t want them to swing games) but bring out the flavor of the world more than spotlighting big mechanics.

New Improvements

We have an entirely new design for forts. Now they begin as forts, then grow into castles and eventually citadels. The effects of each upgrade are as follows:

Fort- gives +10% defense to anyone in the tile and +5% defense to allies within a 1 plot range
Castle- gives +25% defense and +10% heal rate to anyone in the tile and a +10% defense to allies within a 2 plot range
Citadel- gives +40% defense, +20% heal rate and +1 visibility to anyone in the tile and a +15% defense to allies within a 3 plot range

Given enough time ancient towers now upgrade to castles. These defensive range bonuses are disabled if an enemy unit occupies the fort.

The AI has been adjusted to scatter the occasional Fort around, but never clump them together (this was the hardest part of setting up this system). Since we link into the terrain defense modifier system (the same system that says hills and forests grant defense bonuses) the AI does a good job of preferring to move through tiles that have “fort cover”. We also tweaked the AI so that in times of war it will station units in forts to maintain the bonus.

We are considering also having fort/castles/citadels protect surrounding tiles from pillaging and AA had the idea to give allied units a defensive withdrawal chance that allows them to retreat into the fort if they are about to die. Neither of these ideas has been implemented, I want to get all of your thoughts of forts as they are first, but we may consider them in future versions.

We have also applied the tiered upgrade logic to Pirate Coves. Now they will upgrade over time to Pirate Harbors (which give +2 trade, +10% heal rate and +5% defense to allies within 1 plot range) and then on to Pirate Ports (which give +1 food, +1 hammer, +20% heal rate and +10% defense to allies within 2 plot range).

December 10th

Congradulations to the following people for their winning submissions in the design contests:

Design a Unit 3: Verdian for his entry "Divided Soul"
Design an Event: Xuenay for his entry "Commerce Feud"
Design a Wonder: Kol.7 for his entry "City of a Thousand Slums"

I will be getting a hold of each of the designers to work out the specific implementation.

December 11th

The Day of Modest Irritation and/or Benign Agreement (formorly known as the Day of Outrage)

I wanted to take a day to talk about the things that have been removed from "Shadow". Everybody will find some things on that list that they agree with, and some things they don't agree with. We are adding tons of stuff, but to keep FfH from becoming a disorganized mess we have to trim the fat as well. Sometimes cutting a medicore object from the game improves it as much as adding a good one.

Here we go:

1. Removed the Council of Esus wonder (its now a religion).
2. Removed the Cult of the Dragon religion (its now a cult).
3. Removed the Guild of Endeavors wonder (replaced with the Guild of Hammers).
4. Removed the Twisted Spire wonder (this doesnt justify its own wonder in FfH because we have less religious buildings than vanilla, we may reuse the effect combined with more abilities in a new wonder).
5. Removed the Education civic option (those options in this category i liked fit better elsewhere, the rest were boring).
6. Removed the Religious Discipline civic (merged with theocracy).
7. Removed the Military Discipline civic (merged with military state).
8. Removed the No School System civic (boring).
9. Removed the Pikeman unit (UU's preserved, mounted units dont need a foil and pikemen were boring, we renamed the macemen unit to a champion unit and used all the macemen and pikemen uu's as champion uu's, champions upgrade to paladins, eidolons, immortals, berserkers and phalanxs).
10. Removed the Metal Casting tech.
11. Removed the Monarchy tech (combined with Feudalism).
12. Removed the Alchemy tech.
13. Removed the Golem Mastery tech.
14. Removed the Copper Golem unit (this is just a holdover from the pre-luchuirp days).
15. Removed the Golem Workshop building.
16. Removed the Thieves Guild building (redundant with all the new crime mechanics).
17. Removed the Dwarf Slaying promotion (to specific to be useful).
18. Removed the Elf Slaying promotion (to specific to be useful).
19. Removed the Orc Slaying promotion (this is to useful in raging barb games).
20. Removed the Unquestioning Obedience tech (boring).
21. Removed the Patriarch mechanic (removed the patriarch promotion, become patriarch spell and call holy war spell) as those design aspects are better represented through the councils.
22. Removed the Monument building (consolidated with the Obelisk).
23. Removed the Shield Wall unitclass (defense is the province of archer units, it didnt make sence that the attack line ended up with the best defender).
24. Removed the Arcane Golem unit (shield wall uu that I never really liked).
25. Removed the Lames tech.
26. Removed the Armorer building.
27. Removed the Armament Molds building.
28. Removed the Flurry unitclass (it didnt make sense that the defense branch got a strong attacker in the final stage, the elves keep a flurry uu so they retain the strong archer attack, everyone else loses it).
29. Removed the Celerity tech.
30. Removed the Velox Workshop building.
31. Removed the Heavy Crossbowman unitclass (crossbowman are now a t4 unit, basically crossbowmen are what heavy crossbowmen used to be, longbowmen upgrade to crossbowmen, arquebus and marksmen).

It may seem like we cut a lot but I think the game plays better with the changes. Especially the tech tree tuning makes things roll out a more evenly (there has been some significant tweaking of the tech tree, tech requirements and where things lie). Cutting unitclasses helps the art team and really dumps a lot of units that weren't pulling their own weight. I'd rather spend time on civ specific uu's then make everyone have access to some unit that isn't really used (like pikemen and shield walls).

Feel free to give your opinion on what you think about these changes, but I will warn that Im not going to be adding any of this back before release because I want you guys to have the chance to play without them. If after playing for a while you guys think the game is worse off with these chances then we can discuss the hows and whys.

December 12th

Game Options

World Spells

December 13th

Svartalfar: With friends like these...

December 14th

Sidar: Fighting Shadows

December 15th

The Changelog

December 16th

Fall from Heaven's 2nd Birthday

"Shadow" is released publically

[woodelf]

Nice.

When is the "team members get grubby hands on Shadow playtest version" date?

[Moon Hunter]

December 16th??? Have you gone insane???

Half of the people here cant wait that long....

Any info about possible 0.26 version? or new bug fixes???

[Kael]

There won't be a 0.26 or another patch for 0.25 (unless something major breaks). From this point on all my attention is on getting "shadow" ready for release.

6-7 weeks isn't that long (at least it doesnt feel like that long when I look at how much we have to do before then ).

[Civkid1991]

Originally Posted by Moon Hunter

December 16th??? Have you gone insane???

Half of the people here cant wait that long....

Any info about possible 0.26 version? or new bug fixes???

good things come to those who wait

but yea... can't wait! happy modding team

[Demus]

Originally Posted by Moon Hunter

December 16th??? Have you gone insane???

Half of the people here cant wait that long....

Any info about possible 0.26 version? or new bug fixes???

to be honest, i'd prefer them getting it right, rather than getting it early. both would be even better obviously, but unfortunately that's almost never possible. I hope you guys make the deadline though

[MagisterCultuum]

In general I think that sounds like a pretty good schedule, but is there any chance you could release it, say, 2 days earlier? The Friday just before Sunday 16th would be perfect: I would have just finished my last final exam (so I'd have nothing else I'd need to be doing), but not have gone home yet (so I'd have faster internet access than is commercially available int he US, as opposed to the Dial-up we still have at home). Plus, it would continue you tradition of always releasing new versions on Fridays

[Zuul]

hehe fun, always someone that asks for a couple of days earlier .

[TheJopa]

Again, tradition of team's Christmas present. Nice
My birthday is 2.12. Hope my idea will get into the contest at that day (whatever it will be about)

[Moon Hunter]

Originally Posted by Kael

There won't be a 0.26 or another patch for 0.25 (unless something major breaks). From this point on all my attention is on getting "shadow" ready for release.

6-7 weeks isn't that long (at least it doesnt feel like that long when I look at how much we have to do before then ).

Saying that after releasing another nice patch...

[Khai]

Great schedule, I'm amazed you're posting this publicly. Gutsy move...

[Nikis-Knight]

December 16th??? Have you gone insane???

Half of the people here cant wait that long....

The other half remember way back last winter when they were waiting for Fire. This phase will come quicker thant the previous since we aren't concurrently working on AoI.

[Ploeperpengel]

Originally Posted by Kael

6-7 weeks isn't that long (at least it doesnt feel like that long when I look at how much we have to do before then ).

A really short time period actually if you consider all the new animations I wanted to do plus working on WH, I really wished it were still April!

[loki1232]

Deleted, wrong forum.

[feydras]

Kael,

Minor errors reports are still coming in pretty steady through on the .25k/l version. Are you still tracking these and working on fixes, i assume to be placed in Shadow?

[jprc]

A schedule??!!

With all the work that needs first to be achieved for
* stabilizing and cleaning 0.25 from all bugs
* + having a consistent, reliable and complete pedia
* + editing/completing articles in the civwiki
* + adding more flesh to "forgotten" civs
* + adding more graphics/effects?...
... and you want to be on schedule???
It is better to be prepared for longer than shorter if quality is the primary focus...
After all, it is NOT a commercial mod, and they do NOT have to "release" for a marketing window.

... so please, use this schedule as an internal milestone, but first and foremost do NOT speed up a process for racing on a date: QUALITY FIRST.
Thousands of us have voted for having this mod ranked NUMBER 1.
It is not because it is the fastest, but the best.
Keep it that way...

[~Bamboo~]

I don't post a lot however, THANK YOU. I have played this mod for a long time and it has survived many other games I have bought. Truely a fun and interesting game(Mod).


Thanks,
Bam

[vorshlumpf]

Originally Posted by jprc

A schedule??!!
<snip>
... so please, use this schedule as an internal milestone, but first and foremost do NOT speed up a process for racing on a date: QUALITY FIRST.
Thousands of us have voted for having this mod ranked NUMBER 1.
It is not because it is the fastest, but the best.
Keep it that way...

Dude, you might want consider your words before posting next time - your tone is a bit harsh in this unforgiving medium. Fall from Heaven II will be an incomplete mod for Civ IV until it is done Shadow and Ice, two phases that are remaining for this mod that is currently in Beta. Yes, we are all beta testers for this wonderful mod.

* stabilizing and cleaning 0.25 from all bugs

I haven't seen any game-breakers. There will always be bugs in software. If you wait until they are all quashed, you'll never release.

* + having a consistent, reliable and complete pedia

Why fill out the 'pedia when the mechanics are still changing? This has been mentioned many times.

* + editing/completing articles in the civwiki

The Wiki is a free community-led addition for this free mod - it is not officially part of the mod itself. That means if there is something wrong with the Wiki, then fix it.

* + adding more flesh to "forgotten" civs

Heh, I guess I understand now. You must not have spent much time in this forum or with this mod. Those incomplete civs will be completed in the next two phases. It's all a part of the schedule that's been posted and talked about many times.

* + adding more graphics/effects?...

Yes, this is on-going, just like everything else.

I'm sure it's hard to take a fanboy's words to heart, but I really think Kael and Co. have done a great job with their release and test schedule. It has allowed us all to join them on the journey of developing a mod that is a game unto itself.

[jprc]

????

Originally Posted by vorshlumpf

"Dude, you might want consider your words before posting next time - your tone is a bit harsh "

Sir (not "dude"), I am afraid you misunderstood the point. It is not a complain, it is a reminder for quality. I see nothing wrong with this and your long reply hits the wrong target.
When you reply to the (*) points 1 by one, I just give facts that are in the 1st post of the bug thread (2things to do"), recalling that there is lot of work to do, and it is a warning also to any poster who wishes to have an early release: there is a lot of work to be done, and no one should be too formal about a given date.
Obviously you were not reading the BTS thread where we "lost" Alexman, when he kindly introduced the 3.13 changes, and he got flamed because the patch did not come "on time and as promised"
Read my post with a more positive approach, and if you are a fan, protect your team from future complains because a date must be postponed...

[onedreamer]

Originally Posted by Moon Hunter

December 16th??? Have you gone insane???

Half of the people here cant wait that long....

Any info about possible 0.26 version? or new bug fixes???

December the 16th ??? I'm actually surprised at how early that is !! Superb news ! It's just one month and a half, if you consider that I've been playing FFH for almost 2 years now, I can hardly say I will get bored in the meantime. Just one question: what is Empyrean ? O_o

On another note, calling a poster "dude" on a forum is probably the most uneducated and annoying thing one can do.