Geezers WOTM03

Sam_Yeager

Sam_Yeager

Another Original Geezer
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
2,803
Location
England
This is a practice game being played by members of the SGOTM Geezers team using Warlords 2.13. It may or may not be completed depending on when the next SGOTM starts.

PLEASE, do not post any SPOILERs!

Details of WOTM03 are below:

Gyathaar said:

WOTM 03: Celtia

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/wotm03civ.jpg[/img]


Game settings:
Civilization: Celtia (Leader: Brennus; Traits: Spiritual & Charismatic)
Rivals: 8 (2 more than standard for map size)
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Fractal
Mapsize: Standard, cylindrical
Climate: Rocky
Water level: Medium
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: epic
Victory Conditions: all enabled
Other settings: Aggressive AI


Brennus:
Brennus is Spiritual and Charismatic; starting with mysticism and hunting. Spiritual allows you to switch between civics and religions without any anarchy period, and gives double production on temples. Charismatic is a new trait in warlords. It gives 1 free happy face in all cities, +1 happy face from monuments and broadcast towers and units require 25% less experience to gain promotions.

Unique unit: Gallic Warrior
The Gallic Warrior replaces the swordsman. In addition to the normal swordsman statistics, the Gallic Warrior gains a free Guerrilla I promotion. New from 2.08 patch is also that Gallic warriors can be produced with either Copper or Iron, so you are more likely to have the required resource to construct them.

Unique building: Dun
The Dun replaces the normal walls, and gives a free Guerrilla I promotion to all scouts, archery units, and gunpowder units that is constructed in the city before the Dun goes obsolete with the discovery of Rifling technology. Should also be mentioned that the 2.08 patch added a change to the normal walls, that also affects the dun.. It lowers the bombard damage from artillery units by 25%. This means that if an artillery unit normally can remove 20% culture defense per turn, it can only remove 15% if the city has a wall/dun (castles/citadels will lower this with a further 25/50% )

About the Guerrilla promotions:
2.08 patch brought a further change to the Guerrilla III promotion. Units that has this promotion now receives a 30% retreat chance in addition to a 25% hill attack bonus. This retreat chance works everywhere, no matter if you attack onto a hill tile or not.

The starting screenshot is here (Click for larger version)
Click to expand...

Team members so far
AgedOne
erikthecelt
Harbourboy
markh
Sam_Yeager
The-Hawk
 

Attachments

I'm in. I did not play this one when it was published, so no spoilers from me.:)
 
Provisional list of rules for this SG. Playing through this SG should help us to decide which ones are workable.

Game Strategy and Management

  1. If there's a suitable test game available then all team members should play it until at least the early ADs. This will help them to contibute more fully when the game strategy is discussed.
  2. Decide on game victory condition.
    • what is our long term tech path?
    • What are critical builds?
    • What shouldn't we build?
    • What techs don't we need?
    • What types of units should we concentrate on?
    • Do we need defensive units, or only offensive?
    • Do we need a navy?
  3. Estimate timescale for completion. (?)
    • Third place finish date has ranged from 1202 AD (257) - 1961 AD (571).
    • The vast majority of third place finishes were in the 300s (1544 AD - 1766 AD)
  4. Identify a rolling list of short term objectives. (?)
    • Useful to check how well we are doing.
    • This is a continuing task throughout the game.
  5. Regular review and refinement of overall strategy.
    • Is it still applicable?
    • How well are we following the aims of the strategy?
    • Does it need changing and if so how?

Game Playing

  1. Post brief outline of goals for turnset.
    • Leave sufficient time for comments. 24 hours should be enough
    • Amend as necessary based on feedback
  2. Give feedback in writeup on which goals were achieved.
  3. Turn lengths
    • Adopt differing turn lengths depending on whether we are at war?
    • Report on progress part way through turnset if at war e.g. 5+5 system used by CFR?

Shamelessly plagiarised, and suitably edited, from the Murky Waters thread. :hatsoff:
Erkon said:
Ensure that you have read and understood the rules provided by the administrators (C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread) and try to follow any ongoing discussion at the SGOTM xx Maintenance Thread

The next player shall post a ”got it” within 72 hours of the upload of the previous game. Else the next available player has the right to post the ”got it”. This is a rule in addition to the guideline in the C-IV SGOTM Reference Thread. To ensure a smooth handover, please post the ”got it” within 48 hours. The rest of the team needs the in between 24 hours to solve whos next. It’s also good practice to wait 24 hours after the ”got it” before you play. Else, the difference in time zones and busy work days may prevent players from posting useful advice.

No-one is forced to play a turn set. You don’t need to announce the reason for skipping a turn set. Any players can swap turn sets. Please post as quick as possible to reduce unneccesary confusion and delays.

Please use smilies and emotes in your posts as much as possible. Jokes, humour, sarcasm and offensive language can and will be misinterpreted. Remember that written text is a poor method to convey feelings. Not everyone is native to the English language The differences in culture is also a source for misunderstanding. If you get upset by a post, please wait a few hours before you respond.

Don’t be afraid to post things that may appear stupid or evident. Each player have strengths and weaknesses. For example don't assume that everyone knows the difference between peace treaty and ceasefire. Don’t be afraid that other members will think you are stupid.

Issues where we cannot reach concensus is resolved by the active player. If you run into a situation where you need advice, please upload the save and let the rest of us take a look. Or post a quick request for advice. It’s better to delay the game a day than build a wonder in the wrong city. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes though. We all screw up once in a while (some of us more often than others though :shifty: )

Don’t promote units until they are close to action (unless the promotion increases movement). If you are unsure of suitable promotions, don’t hesitate to bring that up for discussion. We all have very different experiences from promotions, for example barrage/CR for cats.

Don’t play intoxicated (from alcohol, drugs or smoke). Don’t play when you are too tired. Or when you have your kids/wife screaming at you :lol:

Try to keep track of the diplomatic events each turn, and visit each city regularly. It’s mandatory to check cities that grow or have a border expansion. Remember that the number of happy people will change due to changes in war weariness (WW), gained/lost resources etc. Keep track of specialists. We don’t want to pollute the great person pool.

Ensure that you have the autosave settings to 1. Please contact AlanH if your game crashes, even if you can repeat all your moves.

If you PM the team, please ensure everyone receives a copy.

Remember that a lot of players read what we post. Don't be rude or disrepectful to any player not on our team.
Click to expand...
 
Can everyone please check that they can load the save successfully before we start playing.

Going by our new all singing and dancing rules we also need to decide on our likely victory condition(s). We'll also need to think about where we should settle.
 
@Sam
OK. The save loads.

Going back to what you said about prior knowledge of WOTM03, or use of WB. Let's all remember, what we are trying to do here is practice a slightly different way of playing as a team. Any use of inside information is likely to have the effect of simply messing our own heads up as we prepare for our next Geezers game.

Right. When we've all checked we can open the save the singing and dancing can commence :) :eek:
 
Save loads. I haven't played this map but I do play around with Brennus a lot. Mostly Highland maps. (sucker for the Celtic connection) Anyway he's good for Cultural games - cheap temples and starts with Myst for the henge. There looks to be good hammers, food and loads of cottage space so I would settle in place. I never build duns in a serious game, just when I'm playing for fun. Scout 2S and then circle the city. Build warriors and grow the city as there's not much for a worker to do until we learn a few techs. Poly, Mining, BW would be my first 3. The map is a bit crowded should be able to pick up a capital with an axe rush.
 
:hmm: An overcrowded map and a leader whose UU can be built as early as BW if there's copper about. Why do I get the impression this game is steering us in the direction of domination/conquest? That being the case beelining BW seems a reasonable idea, maybe fitting in Agriculture after Mining? Warrior, worker and barracks for first builds?

Does anyone think we're likely to need Astro on this map? If not, then it sounds as though we will going down the minimal research route.
 
As I understand it we get our UU with IW, but we can build it with either iron or copper, so no gallics after we researched BW.;) A peaceful game seems rather unlikely with a crowded map and aggressive AI.:hammer:

To see where copper is would be priority for me as the rexing phase will be short with the involved number of AIs. The second city should grab it, so we should have a settler ready once BW is researched.

My research path would be directly for bw.

I would build a worker or first.

Settling : South does not look too well with all the jungle. The lake is good for commerce and a quicker research in the beginning. Nevertheless I would move the scout 1E and the settler 1W to see whether there is something better, although the starting spot is not too shabby with too food resources and a few hills, so production seems rather good.
 
markh said:
As I understand it we get our UU with IW, but we can build it with either iron or copper, so no gallics after we researched BW.;)
Click to expand...

:blush: The perils of posting early in the morning whilst still not fully awake.

markh said:
I would build a worker or first.
Click to expand...

Was there supposed to be something after the 'or'?

markh said:
Settling : South does not look too well with all the jungle. The lake is good for commerce and a quicker research in the beginning. Nevertheless I would move the scout 1E and the settler 1W to see whether there is something better, although the starting spot is not too shabby with too food resources and a few hills, so production seems rather good.
Click to expand...

I agree with the scout move. I'm never that keen moving the initial settler when we have to wait another turn before settling but we can probably afford a 1 turn delay. In fact thinking about it further let's have the scout move first just in case we want the settler to move E afterwards.
 
It's hard to tell with a fractal map whether or not Astronomy will be required. Also, of course, depends on victory condition. Surely we need to find a way to agree on this, or we're no better than we have ever been before.
 
Do we want to set a victory condition now already ? Normally I at least scout the surroundings. Well, in general I am warmonger, so my preferences are quite obvious.;)

With the settings of the game I guess it is quite obvious that we will war quite much. Diplo might be difficult and culture with aggressive AIs seems not that likely also, so that leaves conquest, dom or space IMO. We can still decide after the initial phase of the game.

The first important thing is to get set up quickly in this crowded world regardless of the vic condition.;)

First important tasks :

1. Agree on the place to settle our capital (after some scouting).
2. First build order.
3. What do we want to research ?
3a) Do we go for worker techs or for bw ?
3b) Do we want to found a religion ?
3c) Do we want any early wonders ?
3d) Crowded world, hunting, fast archery -> archer rush ?
 
markh said:
Do we want to set a victory condition now already ? Normally I at least scout the surroundings.
Click to expand...

Good point. I'm probably jumping the gun a bit.

markh said:
First important tasks :

1. Agree on the place to settle our capital (after some scouting).
2. First build order.
3. What do we want to research ?
3a) Do we go for worker techs or for bw ?
3b) Do we want to found a religion ?
3c) Do we want any early wonders ?
3d) Crowded world, hunting, fast archery -> archer rush ?
Click to expand...


1. Unless our initial scouting shows anything dramatically better I would settle on the hill 1W where the settler will end up.
2. If we settle 1W then worker, warrior seems fine to me otherwise warrior,worker.
3. If we beeline BW there's a couple on mines to keep the worker busy. Agriculture for the corn is probably worth it. I think this map has been setup for warring so I would be inclined to skip religion and wonders. I believe the AI get archery for free on monarch so I can't really see an archer rush being feasible.

Mark, do you want to be captain and setup a roster?
 
markh said:
Do we want to set a victory condition now already ?
Click to expand...

Having a victory condition in mind helps with the decisions, does not mean we can't change :)

markh said:
1. Agree on the place to settle our capital (after some scouting).
2. First build order.
3. What do we want to research ?
3a) Do we go for worker techs or for bw ?
3b) Do we want to found a religion ?
3c) Do we want any early wonders ?
3d) Crowded world, hunting, fast archery -> archer rush ?
Click to expand...

1. Captial looks good for cottages and food. I’m happy with settling in place. I would work the spices or lake for the extra coin. As an alternative we could settle beside the corn for a quicker city growth.

1 W only loses the plains spice from what we can see so it's a possible option.
1 SW loses cows, plain spice and health bonus :eek:
1 NW kills forest but keeps all of the bonus squares
The east looks to be more forest/jungle, what are we hoping to find there, elephants? Moving 1SE or 1 E loses cows and corn. If you don't want to settle in place, move scout 1 W, 1 NW to forest square.

2. Answer depends on tech path there is nothing for the worker to do early.

3.
3a-1 – Mining, BW, IW, Wheel – 950 beakers - hammer path build – barracks to size 2, start worker, barracks to size 3, then settler
3a-2 – Ag, AH, Writing, Alpha – 1296 beakers - food path build warrior size 2, worker, warrior, settler

Epic Costs – Worker – 90 h, Settler 150 h, Archer 40 (?), Warrior (25)?

Ag – 133, Mining 111, BW 268, Archery – 133, AH – 223, Wheel – 133, Writing – 268
IW – 448, Alpha – 672

Ist expansion happens after 15 turns.

I'm at work so can't verify all the numbers, hence the ? as I have some notes from other epic games with me

3b & 3c - don't care if not culture game
3d - interesting but no good hammer squares in fat cross, not really a rush scenario when it takes 20 turns to produce 1 archer (IMO).
 
We should listen to Erik, as he is a Celt after all. But he is on the right track. To be really good, we need to:
- know what we want our capital to focus on (hammers, commerce, great people etc)
- choose the spot that BEST meets that obejctive (in theory you can work it out precisely)
- choose techs so precisely that you almost know when they will arrive

I am not good enough to work that stuff out but I would suggest:
- one move of scout quickly then reconvene on city placement
- beelining war techs - BW, IW, and/or AH, depending on what resources appear
- aim to clear out a near neighbour ASAP
- don't let economy go down the toilet
- make a real effort at proper city specialisation (because we've been poor at that recently)
 
erikthecelt said:
3.
3a-1 – Mining, BW, IW, Wheel – 950 960 beakers - hammer path build – barracks to size 2, start worker, barracks to size 3, then settler
3a-2 – Ag, AH, Writing, Alpha – 1296 beakers - food path build warrior size 2, worker, warrior, settler

Epic Costs – Worker – 90 h, Settler 150 h, Archer 37 h, Warrior 22 h

Ag – 133, Mining 111, BW 268, Archery – 133, AH – 223, Wheel – 133, Writing – 268 IW – 448, Alpha – 672
Click to expand...

Updated the figures erik. :) My very rough estimate is ~85 turns, assuming no :whipped:, for the hammer path at the end of which we still don't have any military. :eek: I think we probably need to start a warrior whilst growing to two rather than the barracks. Chopping a forest to hurry the settler is probably needed as well to reduce the build time.

I've not tried working out all the build and growth speeds before so I may well be vastly out in my estimate. :hide:
 
I've done it again! Come in from work and missed most of the discussion.

Well, it looks as though you've gone beyond the few points I was going to make already. I was going to mention the crowded map, aggressive AI, and that we were probably going to be up against some pretty unpleasant opponents early on.
The solution? Be their even more unpleasant opponent before they've even thought of it!

So I'm all in favour of a quick push for military techs.

Totally agree with markh and the list of important decisions.

Let's have a quick look around for the ideal capital location. We can lose 1 turn on this. (And there is some uninviting jungle just to the south.)

I like the idea of the archer rush first off. For all we know, there aren't any metals right by us for axemen in any case. Perhaps we end up taking out one civ with archers and the next with gallics.

I can't get a good idea what kind of victory we should be heading for. Really need to scout out the position of each of our rivals. We could be surrounded, or out on a limb. We may have only one or two on our initial landmass. Or it could be a seething mass of cut-throat enemies!

Workers couldn't do anything at first, and if we go for archery first it'll be a while more before we can use them. Probably warrior, worker, archer as our build list - and let the warrior and archer go off to help the scout explore (but not too far!)
 
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