Role Playing Challenge: Chivalrous Washington II

Well, here is our second attempt at the chivalrous George game. The first ended arround 30 AD after Liz and Issy were destroyed before we even met them

Since the game barely got underway, I restarted with some slight changes. We are using a Pangea map (as suggested). low water, and no barbarians (If some lady gets herself killed now that's her problem).

Game conditions:
Monarch
Marathon speed
Pangea map
Low Water level (to give the overcrowded civs some elbow room)
Permanent Alliances are turned
Barbarians are turned off

8 AIs, preselected


The Ladies (Who's honor must be defended):
Isabella
Boudica
Elizabeth
Hatshepsut
Catherine

The rivals (Stronge leaders in history who took what they wanted):
Alexander
Napolean
Julius Caesar

Goal:

Diplomatic Victory via UN (Grade A)
Culture Win (Grade B)
Time win (Grade C)
SpaceSHip win (Grade C)
Domination/Conquest/AP diplo (F)

Rules

1) Chivalrous George will not attack any of the ladies. In fact if one or more declares war on him he will fight a defensive battle and NEVER send tropps into the fair lady's cultural border. HE will sue for peace as soon as possible.
2) If any of the ladies are attacked by one of Washington's hated rivals he must attack that rival to defend the lady's honor.
3) Washington has a distrust and hatred of his 2 male rivals but if they are at peace with the ladies, he will be friendly to maintain the peace.
4) GW cannot refuse any request from one of the fair ladies, except to stop trading with or declare war on another lady.
5) If two of the ladies get into a catfight, he must stay out of it and try to arrange peace.
6) Washington would never vassal any lady. He will not allow a lady to be vassaled to a rival through war (he shall continue the war until she is freed. If a lady vassals to a rival peacefully, that is her affair. If a lady vassals to another lady via war, it is her affair.
7) All civic and gameplay styles are in play, as long as they do not violate the above 6 rules.

So there you have it, old Chivalrous George's goal. This should be a good game to see if we can get a dilomatic win from the get go, with a backup plan of a late game (perhaps corporation driven) cultural win.

Any idea's, suggestions, or requests for Rivals are encouraged and appreciated.

I'll post the start tonight and start playing next week.

Chivalrous Washington: Start

Here is our start.



Sushi anyone?

I'll start on this tomorrow or the next day.

madscientist said:

... ... ... (If some lady gets herself killed now that's her problem). ... ... ... The Ladies (Who's honor must be defended) ... ... ...

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So much for defending the ladies, better brush up on your chivalrous statements.

Here is our start. ... ... ... Sushi anyone?

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Hurray, we've still got stone - but no barbarians lol, so we build the wall just for the spying fun?

Sushi's great, go fishing, and then find the other ingredients.

Hope there's more to the north than just a small peninsula. Would be kind of great (and dangerous? ) if your capital effectively divides/cuts off a greater landmass.

Are we allowed to use spies on the ladies? Hatty and Lizzie will have some nice techs.....

Rex rgis of Ter said:

Are we allowed to use spies on the ladies? Hatty and Lizzie will have some nice techs.....

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But of course we are allowed to glimpse what the ladies are , er, um teching, yeah teching.

Carabodes said:

So much for defending the ladies, better brush up on your chivalrous statements.


Hurray, we've still got stone - but no barbarians lol, so we build the wall just for the spying fun?

Sushi's great, go fishing, and then find the other ingredients.

Hope there's more to the north than just a small peninsula. Would be kind of great (and dangerous? ) if your capital effectively divides/cuts off a greater landmass.

Click to expand...

I always thought the GW protecting from barbs the least valuable item. The 100% GG from wars within cultural borders may be big for this game considering I cannot invade a ladies territory. There may be many dead celts on American soil!

I see teching masonry and the wheel as one of the top 3 techs. No barbs means a delay in archery.

Rex rgis of Ter said:

Are we allowed to use spies on the ladies? Hatty and Lizzie will have some nice techs.....

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I suppose we are allowed to spy on the ladies, but; -
We're aiming for a diplo win by charming the ladies (and killing our rivals - slowly and only at the ladies' demand), so our spies better not get caught!
Hmm, tough one.

EDIT I: @Rex: We're totally free to spy on the men, though. (As long as we then kill them at some point.)

EDIT II: @madscientist: We posted simultaniously, so I didn't see your answer. Great point about the extra GG's, and your right to fear the celts (it will be hard to be chivalrous towards her). Agree with preliminary techpath (we probably won't need archery for a very long time), then the path to bronzeworking kind of springs to mind, don't you think?

Are you re-rolling for these starts? This is just absurdly good.

vicawoo said:

Are you re-rolling for these starts? This is just absurdly good.

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Nope, just a random start.

madscientist said:

Any idea's, suggestions, or requests for Rivals are encouraged and appreciated.

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Seeing that you ask ... even if the map has been rolled ... I would have pressed the theme further and gone with the 'indigenous' American leaders of Sitting Bull, Montezuma, and Huayna Capac with Chivalrous George clearing the way for the 'new' America, and of course the ladies.

Glad to see you restarting this one.

Cam_H said:

Seeing that you ask ... even if the map has been rolled ... I would have pressed the theme further and gone with the 'indigenous' American leaders of Sitting Bull, Montezuma, and Huayna Capac with Chivalrous George clearing the way for the 'new' America, and of course the ladies.

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That would be interesting-- You could also include Pacal... (or perhaps that would be too much?)

What I believe would make it even better is if you were forced (as a rule of the challenge) to conquer or capitulate all of the indigenous Americans and liberate their previously conquered cities that you own to the feminine faction (as a show of Washington's "goodwill"). Although it would be easier to vote yourself in with those captured cities, liberating the cities to the ladies also lends itself to a diplomatic victory because (hopefully) the ladies will be all over you... and clearing out the nations that obviously won't like you much will decrease votes against you.

Trv016 said:

That would be interesting-- You could also include Pacal... (or perhaps that would be too much?)

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... of course! Pacal! Good suggestion Trv!

Cam_H said:

Seeing that you ask ... even if the map has been rolled ... I would have pressed the theme further and gone with the 'indigenous' American leaders of Sitting Bull, Montezuma, and Huayna Capac with Chivalrous George clearing the way for the 'new' America, and of course the ladies.

Click to expand...

Good suggestion for historical aspect although I rolled the map. All three would be dangerous, but not what I view as "rivals" to Washington as far as the ladies. Napolean, Caesar, and Alexander had three of the largest empires in history all by taking agressively what they wanted (you gotta admit the ladies need some protection from these gents). Hyuna was a nominee for a spot (see first thread) but I think Monty and Bull would be needing my protection from the ladies.

Still I like this idea and perhaps I will try a second RPC with Washington at a later date (as I said he is my favorite leader, both historical and as a CIV leader).

And of course this game is absolute fun and probably will have George rolling in his grave (In fact someone near where he's burries is supposed to be checking that out during the game).

Trv016 said:

That would be interesting-- You could also include Pacal... (or perhaps that would be too much?)

What I believe would make it even better is if you were forced (as a rule of the challenge) to conquer or capitulate all of the indigenous Americans and liberate their previously conquered cities that you own to the feminine faction (as a show of Washington's "goodwill"). Although it would be easier to vote yourself in with those captured cities, liberating the cities to the ladies also lends itself to a diplomatic victory because (hopefully) the ladies will be all over you... and clearing out the nations that obviously won't like you much will decrease votes against you.

Click to expand...

There's nothing to stop old GW from giving Paris, Athens, or Rome to one of the fair ladies? Who can resist that charm??

Chivalrous Washington: Part I

Well here we are at the start of the second attempt at GW and the ladies. Although we may not last through 30AD again, we definitely have been able to put our best foot foreward with the ladies.

To start we settled in place, sent our warrioir out to map the continent. We popped 36 gold, a map, and a scout. With no barbarians these two exploreres were enough to get a view of our Pangea map.

TEchwise we went: Wheel/Mining/BW/Myst/Mas/Hunting/Archery/AH/Writing/Pottery/start IW. YEp I went to lockup all the worker techs and military techs early with the luxury of writing to open borders with the ladies.

Firts of all, GW sends the warrior in search of a potential future Mrs GW and meets



Some crack of crushing 50,000 soldiers. Al just doesn't realize George is a lover, not a fighter.

Soon after we meet one of the unfortunate lasses from the first attempt.



OK, The zealot is to our NE. Note to oneself, do NOT change to a religion not Issy's. After old GW took a long nap from Isabella's lengthy introduction we moved on to find



A friendly redhead who just blatently threatens to kill me.

Soon after we find



Who seams sweet and nice but has here capital just north of Washington. I city can go between washington and Thebes and she's creative, oh Boy.

We continue along to find



WOW 'nuf said

And soon after another redhead arrives.



No she didn't ask for anything at out meeting.

Finally we meet the last 2 rivals, a little man lol: ) and some guy in a dress selling salads





So my thinking is how do we proceed. No doubt our continent is crowded and I seriously fear getting closed in if I utilize the stone for any wonders. Basically a warrior/archer/worker/settler spam out of Washington.

As of the save Stonehenge/Oracle/Great Wall all have been built. The pyramids are still open, so we can try that.

Now we get our first "request", well demand



And within a few turns a nicer request



Geez. George has gotten his pockets picked without even a goodnight kiss.

Soon another request



Now, the long term goal is to get a diplomatic victory out of this so I give the little man lol: ) what he wants. He's no getting HB or construction that fast si I gave him the ivory.

SO you ask do we have a map and where are those military resources??? Low and behold



Three sources of copper, 1 horse, three jumbos.
All in three cities.

It is not clear but the AIs relative to myself

Hatty is directly north
Isabella is east of Hatty and me and is cut off by us
The slime Greek (no good will come from that guy) is directly south
Liz if SW of me, directly west of Al
Boudica is landlocked and directly west of Philadelphia
Cathy is on teh extreme west of the continent
Little man lol: ) and the cross dressing salad man are both near each other and east of Cathy.

Also note that all 4 known religions are spread out nice and evenly between the ladies. I fear alot of catfights will be breaking out soon. I have not adopted any religions and hope I do not get any ladies asking me to convert.

The RPC challenge is to do whatever I am told short of stop trading or declaring war on a lady. SO if Issy asks me to convert, I convert. I am glad for the 5 turn wait as I could be swapping religions every turn with this setup or I would be in anarchy the entire game.

So how do we proceed in this mess? Were are teching IW, then what? MY feeling is to find where iron is and get a city near and stop expanding. To the north is a little tundraish and unsettled so I am hoping some iron shows up there. If not then I think a beeline for HB/MAth/Construction for war elephants is a must ( relly do not want Prats running through Amercia).

And what do we do for building now? I am looking at an axeman/spear/chariot in each city. The only potential invading we will likely do is Big Al if he declares on LIz or myself.

Also since I am shooting fo a diplo victory (grade A) or cultural (grade B) I am going to stay a little behind in tech and opt for the military buildup. I can beeling radio/mass media later. Outteching the AI in this game means I am giving away what I work hard for, so perhaps we will go down the Shaka military buildup strategy. Also I think I should pronto build monestaries and manipulate some religions (like converting the ladies to Issy's religion.

And finally, do we star running spy specialists or hike the espionage slider up? and who do we spy on

OK, What ideas do we have. We got damsels, we got villians, we got copper, horse and jumbos.

IW/HB/Math/Constr sounds fine to me. We have some jungle to harvest, and we want protection for heavy turtling. Plenty monasteries sounds fine, both for culture as well as for research.

Stay a-religious as long as you can, in my experience the AI will then be sending you plenty of missionaries, saving you the trouble of building them. The problem will be that Izzy will demand that you accept her religion as soon as she has spread it.

Seems you've landed yourself in a hornets nest, and you will be the natural target for most of them I guess. REX (preparation for cultural = at least 9 cities, as you know) combined with a mighty military seems to be the answer, as well as a silky-smooth golden tongue. Building the Pyramids would be nice for early Rep. Any chances of being the one to build the AP and staying in control of it?

The slimeball will go for you or Liz, I think, in both cases you'll be at war. Actually it would be best if he'll go for you, so that you can keep his cities yourself, rather than having to give them all to Liz. Hopefully the itty-bitty-tiny excuse-for-a-man and the salladtosser will be at each others throats, rather than yours or Cathys.

Spy: On the men, especially Rome and France, I think. Try a cautious 10% espionage, as a starter?

About the proboscis-animal deal with the tiny one. Now you've earned your browniepoints with him, breake the deal before he gets construction. I'm not so sure about smoothtalking the men to earn browniepoints, we are planning to (slowly and painfully - for them, that is ) wipe them out, aren't we? It's the ladies you'll have to please, and the men only to the extent of them being a lady's best friend.

Heavy turtling and pissing the men off to the extent that they'll attack you, enabling you to kill them without annoying the ladies?

To clear up a point, gifting male AI cities to the ladies is strictly a decision made by old George. I think Sparta and Athen at least would make excellent American cities, don't you

Based on the lay of the land and rivals/ladies locations I am looking at the following long term diplomatic situation:

1) Wipe Al out as fast as possible.
2) Switch to heritary Rule ASAP so we can cater to Cathy. Between the favorite civic and giving in to her requests she should be easy to get along with. Plus it's only time before she's at war with the two rivals near her although I have seen her send armies accross the continent before.
3) Issy is easy, we adopt her religion.
4) We try as best we can to get Hatty and Issy under the same religion. Then we run organized religion. That should keep both Hatty and Issy happy. In fact, should I convert now????
5) Liz is a little more difficult. Normally she is easy to get along with but she likes FR and will likely target the Shwagdolyn palace to get it, whcih eliminates the common civic and commen religion aspect.
6) Boudica, she probably has "we have enough on our hand message" already, let's hope she's not targeting us.
7) Little man lol: ) and salad boy: To be honest I hope one of these guys do fairly well so they are my UN rival. That's alot to ask with them bordering Boudica and Cathy!

But that is all a very long way off. I think we need axe-men and spears right now. Chariots are pretty useless because of the Greek UU.

Also, what does everyone think of old George bribing a lady to declare on a rival? Should we consider this unchivalrous or is all fair in lave and war

Last thing first: Giving gifts to ladies is the chivalrous thing to do. Strings attached? Well, that has happened before. With some hmm-ing and hah-ing, and the proper giftsrappings, I would say bribing's allowed.

In my opinion, most AI cities are good american cities. George can do what he likes, as long as (most of) the ladies do not get offended by his actions.

1) Greece is gone!
2), 3) and 4) Sounds like very good ideas. Adopt Izzy, mission Hatty = big, happy family.
5) With FR Liz will not have religious issues. I don't remember, but didn't she have a thing for hereditary rule pre BtS? Did that change? If not, we might be able to stay on her good side, we could improve the relationship with a bit of trading, maybe?
6) Boudica? Kind of trying to ignore her, hoping she will forget all about you and concentrate on the fruit sallads?
7) You're not supposed to protect the men! But I do see your point. it wouldn't be chivalrous if your rival was a woman. And anyway, it's nice to have a buffer-zone to keep the ladies preoccupied.

About chariots - are you not the tinyest bit worried about Hattys version of them? Just in case - plenty spears!

Chivalrous Washington: PArt II

Well, I gotta say that when it comes to the search for love things never get boring. Some very interesting developements.

First of all, another request of GW



Well, 10 turns and that's it. NOt a big deal.

Of course this we cannot accept



Unfortunately, this neither



Not scoring many brownie points with our Celtic Lady.

During this segment we teched only IW/MAth/HB/construction (underway). I also shamelessly traded any techs I could to progress somewhat in tech, and not doing so bad there by the end of the segment.

Also Cathy converted to Judaism.

We also got the bad news about Iron, which is NONE! The closest is in Hatty's lands.



Trades, resources, donations so where is the excitement in all that??? Well, let's get onto that

I hear battle horns and find that the little man lol: ) has declared war on me, but before I can do anything I get this request



How can I refuse???? I declare on Al, the diplomatic screen



And the kicked in a few turns.



Sure, what the hell. Just keep demanding things from the Nobel Americans. We turn Jewish. Hatty and Cathy love me, Liz is indifferent trying to tech away with her three cities, and Bouduca is starting to hate my guts.

So we fight with the little general, killing about 4 units trying to invade Philadelphia then sue for peace. Al on the other hand has neither copper nor Iron (No Phalanx). We send some chariots/axes/spear onto Sparta



Hatty also declares on Al, gets peace, then I can asked her to join just before the save. I send a spear (one of my spears is a Woodsman III !!) and some axes to pillage the horses. Al is now defending with only archers.

Argos (just north of Sparta was captured by Issy, recaptured by Al, the razed by myself.

So the staus right now is I am accumulating units (HAs !!) in Sparta for an assault on Athens (nothing else to do, Issy won't make peace with Al). AT this point we popped our first GP, a GS.

The status for now





Not doing too bad in tech considerig how slow my cities are developing.

So how do we proceed??

1) GS: do we bulb Compass or produce an academy to speed up construction (we want those cats and jumbos real bad). Compass should get us several techs.

2) I plan to pour it on Athens in a gauntlet attack. If that fails I am willing to rebuild with cats/elephants.

3) If Issy make peace with Al, do we??? My feeling is to take him out NOW even if we have to drag the dam war out a LONGGGGG time.

4) Any ideas of what to do with Boudica??? The best thing I can come up with is get a bunch of woodsman promoted units in the jungle and hope to slow her down if she attacks.

Also, we got a GG which I settled in Washington. Most cities are producing HAs for the Athens offensive.

Like I said: Hornests nest. You may have bitten off more than you can chew, those ladies are hard to please. Looks like you and Isabel are heading for marriage, though, mutual struggle and all that.

1) Academy, I think, more beneficial in the long run.
2) and 3) To repeat myself: "Greece is gone". I'm sure the ladies won't mind, even if they make peace with the man, they will still not befriend him.
4) Boudica don't seem to be willing to let you off the hook, you're not singing her tune.
I think you're right, a very active defense might be the way to go. Show her your muscles, brag about your power, let your forces roam in the border woodlands! That just might cause her to think twice.

Apart from that, seems that your having sallad for diplo-elections, whilst Tiny should be next in line for extinction, he's too loony to keep, and he'll never be friendly.

Just some thoughts, since we can't take iron by force:
Any chance you can squeeze in a city north of New York? It'll be crappy, I know, but might just outculture Hatty's iron.
Or:
If Boudica attacks Hatty (and not you ), at least have a settler (or two) ready and waiting, then if Boudica razes egyptian cities (especially the one close to iron); move in rapidly and settle?
Not very chivalrous, I know, but might pass.