Basic value of main resources
- Thread starter Levgre
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Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
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I think "what is needed at the moment" is the whole point here, so why trying to introduce some generalized formula to something that is entirely situational ?
The important thing is - you spezialize - in some cities you prioritize production, others are your science/money centers, one other is the GP farm. In each of the cities you will try to optimize either hammers or commerce or gpp's, while sacrificing the others.
The important thing is - you spezialize - in some cities you prioritize production, others are your science/money centers, one other is the GP farm. In each of the cities you will try to optimize either hammers or commerce or gpp's, while sacrificing the others.
suspendinlight
Prince
I think food is pretty much always the most critical resource. If you have enough food you can always build mines and workshops for hammers, cottages for commerce, or specialists for GP points.
Refar
Deity
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This is true. Its why food is on the top of Levgre's list i guess.
On the other hand - how about seeing it this way:
Sometimes more food will not do nothing for you. Be it because they are at the happy/health cap and already working all the good tiles (whips are sometimes happines constrained as well - not much point in growing faster than 10 turns). Sometimes when planning a city you choose to split up food ressources, so instead of one city having mora than needed, you get two that still have enought. You will often end up switching your cities from working food tiles, to slow up growth.
Short: there can be "enought" food. Sometimes.
Hammers... Well basicly you allways want more. Still - for a military city you can say, that it does not need more hammers, than to produce a unit per turn.
Conclusion: "enought" hammers is rather difficult, but still possible.
I never seen someone having "enought" commerce.
Obviously commerce is the most valuable thing, since you allways end up wanting more
I suppose I didn't clarify what I was thinking of well...
I am also talking about comparing the value of say, 1 food to 1 hammer to 1 'coin'.
So 2 food tile > 2 hammer > 2 commerce
2 food 2 hammer > 2 food 2 commerce
3 food > 1 food 1 hammer 2 commerce?
Then it would be interesting to determine some sort of ratio of value. I think you could determine this just by how people judge the overall value of different resource tiles.
I am also talking about comparing the value of say, 1 food to 1 hammer to 1 'coin'.
So 2 food tile > 2 hammer > 2 commerce
2 food 2 hammer > 2 food 2 commerce
3 food > 1 food 1 hammer 2 commerce?
Then it would be interesting to determine some sort of ratio of value. I think you could determine this just by how people judge the overall value of different resource tiles.
I've been thinking about this question in my recent games.
I'm not sure what the exact relative value of commerce/food/hammers is, but I do know that if you have a serious shortage of any one of the three, you can get in deep trouble, so what you want most depends very much on the situation.
I think it usually works best in my games when I treat 1 food as equal in value to 1.3 to 1.8 hammers, and 1 commerce as equal to about 0.6 hammer. (which would mean 1 food= about 2.5 commerce)
However, my games are almost always warmonger games--in peaceful games I think commerce would be more valuable... worth maybe 0.8 or more hammers, worth more in the late game than early?
I'm thinking I would value 1 GP as equal to 1 commerce or slightly more if it is in a city that's likely to make a great person and nothing in the vast majority of my cities.
I'm not sure what the exact relative value of commerce/food/hammers is, but I do know that if you have a serious shortage of any one of the three, you can get in deep trouble, so what you want most depends very much on the situation.
I think it usually works best in my games when I treat 1 food as equal in value to 1.3 to 1.8 hammers, and 1 commerce as equal to about 0.6 hammer. (which would mean 1 food= about 2.5 commerce)
However, my games are almost always warmonger games--in peaceful games I think commerce would be more valuable... worth maybe 0.8 or more hammers, worth more in the late game than early?
I'm thinking I would value 1 GP as equal to 1 commerce or slightly more if it is in a city that's likely to make a great person and nothing in the vast majority of my cities.
= 4
= 2.5To a great extent, it depends on what you need at the time.
I don't think you can put GPP last. This is the most variable of all the 4 you mentioned because the value of a single GPP drops throughout the game. But early GPP are immensely valuable. Suppose you have a city at happy cap, and can stagnate with 2 free citizens ... they can either produce 8 hammers from mines, or 6 GPP (and 6 beakers) running scientists. If it's the first Great Person, it takes 17 turns to get a Great Scientist. You could have gotten 126 hammers in those turns, or a GS. Using settling as a baseline, 126 turns later, you have just as many hammers, but also have 756 base beakers. Over 300 turns, you would have 300 hammers and 1800 beakers, giving 3 hammers and 18 beakers for each GPP. An academy can provide as many as 20,000 beakers throughout a normal speed game (200 beakers per GPP). Of course the GPP for the second GP are only half as valuable, and there is short term cost vs. long term gain to be weighed.
I think a lot of people underestimate the massive value of well used early great people.
I don't think you can put GPP last. This is the most variable of all the 4 you mentioned because the value of a single GPP drops throughout the game. But early GPP are immensely valuable. Suppose you have a city at happy cap, and can stagnate with 2 free citizens ... they can either produce 8 hammers from mines, or 6 GPP (and 6 beakers) running scientists. If it's the first Great Person, it takes 17 turns to get a Great Scientist. You could have gotten 126 hammers in those turns, or a GS. Using settling as a baseline, 126 turns later, you have just as many hammers, but also have 756 base beakers. Over 300 turns, you would have 300 hammers and 1800 beakers, giving 3 hammers and 18 beakers for each GPP. An academy can provide as many as 20,000 beakers throughout a normal speed game (200 beakers per GPP). Of course the GPP for the second GP are only half as valuable, and there is short term cost vs. long term gain to be weighed.
I think a lot of people underestimate the massive value of well used early great people.
Yes, I would say the 1st GPP cycle would be a definite exception to the rule. But keep in mind that for your calculation, you did not just do GPP vs hammers.
You did specialists vs hammers. Specialists bonuses are exactly equivalent to commerce.
So your statement was 6 Commerce + 6 GPP > 8 hammers. I would probably agree.
However, think about an engineer vs a mined hill. 4 hammers <-> 2 hammers and 3 GPP?
Of course, its situational, so what you have to do is take into account all situations and see what is generally better. For the majority of the game you are not in that very first short GP phase. Say you need 150 GPP(still a pretty short phase)... so you get 1/50 of a great engineer, or 2 extra hammers right now.
I think generally the 2 extra hammers right now are more useful.
For commerce, instead, I'd say 2 commerce and 3 GPP > 4 commerce
You did specialists vs hammers. Specialists bonuses are exactly equivalent to commerce.
So your statement was 6 Commerce + 6 GPP > 8 hammers. I would probably agree.
However, think about an engineer vs a mined hill. 4 hammers <-> 2 hammers and 3 GPP?
Of course, its situational, so what you have to do is take into account all situations and see what is generally better. For the majority of the game you are not in that very first short GP phase. Say you need 150 GPP(still a pretty short phase)... so you get 1/50 of a great engineer, or 2 extra hammers right now.
I think generally the 2 extra hammers right now are more useful.
For commerce, instead, I'd say 2 commerce and 3 GPP > 4 commerce
Janus0
Zombie
I think it all boils down to where the threats to your victory are comming from.
Short term threat: hammers, then food, then commerce.
Long term threat: commerce, then food, then hammers.
No forseeable threats: food, commerce, hammers.
In a war? You need units. Going to war in a hundred turns? You need a tech lead. Comfortable lead? Ride that victory home..
Short term threat: hammers, then food, then commerce.
Long term threat: commerce, then food, then hammers.
No forseeable threats: food, commerce, hammers.
In a war? You need units. Going to war in a hundred turns? You need a tech lead. Comfortable lead? Ride that victory home..
Harbourboy
Deity
I get pretty excited when I see Gold in my capital BFC.
Phrederick
Warlord
You can't do that. Early in the game, the most important things are producing units and growing cities, so food/hammers are the most important. After conquering an enemy, you'll usually not have to worry about an army for a bit, but you need to rebuild the conquered cities and catch up on tech, so commerce in the core and hammers/food in the conquered cities. In a space race, the hardest part is the research, so commerce is king. Why even bother trying to put a value on each?
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