Cultural Victory Challenge #3: Huayna Capac

Cultural Victory Challenge #3: Huayna Capac

In the Cultural Victory Challenge series, the intent is to achieve a victory that hasn't been often pursued in the various challenges I've seen on the forums, a Cultural victory. The purpose of the challenge is to show some of the ways to use various leaders and their traits and unique buildings to help achieve such a victory.

The third challenge featues Huayna Capac. I chose him for this challenge for the following reasons:
* Huayna has two traits that have not yet been used in the challenge: Financial and Industrious. The latter is obviously the bigger trait for Cultural victories, as it suggests pursuing Wonders. Financial is a bit indirect in its benefit, as it means more research to pursue techs that allow us to find ways to generate more culture.
* It gives me an opportunity to use the Terrace, the Incan unique building, a Granary that generates culture. The Terrace is available early in the game and the Pottery tech that allows it is one of those techs we'll want to pursue early to exploit the Financial trait.
* Huayna starts with Mysticism, thus we can pursue one of the early religions.

The difficulty level for this challenge is Prince. It will be played on Hemisphers with two continents (well, that's what I selected, so let's hope that what we get) on Epic speed.

Here is the starting location.



Not much can be seen in terms of any resources, which likely means some are in the vicinity that just haven't been revealed by the units. There are flood plains to the west, but to get them, we'll have to move that Settler.

Moving the existing Quecha would allow us to reveal more of the surrounding land, as there are hills nearby. But which way should he go? And what to do with the Settler... it would seem to make sense to move him, but to where?

The saved game is attached for those who want to play along. And yes, I am going to get signed up for a Photobucket account in a couple of days. In the meantime, feel free to discuss the first moves to take.

not much can be seen in terms of any resources

Click to expand...

... in part because the picture is so small

The lack of food is alarming - there are three possible tiles that could have something, and you can't easily check them. My read of the map is that you may have coast to the north east, so I would be inclined to push the quecha SE, to see what he can see, and if that isn't sufficiently comfortable to consider moving the settler NE (that appears to be the river mouth, and should give you coastal access without too many wet tiles).

On the other hand, I may be being alarmist. A lot of my games lately have been VERY short on food. They've also been short on trees though, which this start has in abundance.

You can't go very wrong with HC - perfect for culture. Since you are going for culture though make sure you spread the wonders around. If you build them all in your capital you will largely waste the industrious trait.

I would go for volumes of wonders rather than specific ones - preferably lots of low cost wonders. Eg make sure you get stonehenge, oracle and great wall. Pyramids are lower priority for a financial leader (but you should probably still get them if you can - three cities building wonders at the start of the game should race through the early ones).

My favourite culture opening with an industrious leader is to go for three early cities all building wonders. Choose good sites with good commerce potential late game but concentrate on production at first. If the three cities start a little bit apart then their rapid border expansion should give you enough room for a cluster of helper cities.

Orion just did a good thread about this only on Noble with Pangaea. You just have to have enough cities to build the temple for all the religions thus unlocking the cathedrals (I think you need 9). He did it with all the religions but it can be done with much less. The key is diplomacy. You have to keep everybody off your back despite a laughable power rating.

In actual fact, cultural victory just got a whole lot easier with BtS. Other than the standard programme of getting 9 cities with temples to allow 3 cathedrals for each of the religions, one can now achieve cultural victories with the aid of two of the corporations - Sid's Sushi and Creative Constructions - presuming of course that you have a wealth of resources that they consume (usually no bother for Sid's Sushi).

On top of that there's the usual mid to late-game wonders and of course the now changed Sistine Chapel. Making sure you get Sistine Chapel, Broadway, Eifel Tower, Rock and Roll and Holywood will greatly help. Caste System for a few Great Artists too.

q rush while going for religion seems fairly obviously move... huyana should be on marathon to realy show how incredibly stupid it is to play him against the AI though...

OK, so I took VoU's suggestion to move the Quecha one tile SE. This is what he revealed.



So there's a lot of floodplains to the west, which is making me think I should move the Settler in that direction. I don't know what food resources are there, if any, but it looks like it might be the direction to go.

VoU did suggest moving the Settler one tile NE... try that out or should I send it to the west?

I would settle in place, work the 3 plains hill, and start off with 4 Quechuas to rush a neighbor.

Since you don't need worker techs right away, grab Polytheism.

Settle in place - being on a river is too important. The floodplains will give you a superb second city - and the key to culture is having three good cities, not just one. You can farm the river if you need more food.

plus one of those two plains tiles undoubtedly has soething on it

InvisibleStalke said:

Settle in place - being on a river is too important.

Click to expand...

Really? In a cultural game?

Settling in place is probably fine. There are two uncertain tiles (each one notch east of you - one two tiles north, the other two tiles south). Given the way that starting locations are normally chosen, I would honestly expect them both to be food tiles.

Another possibility would be to move two tiles EAST. That should put you on the coast. It gives you more wet tiles than the NE move, but keeps both of the hidden tiles in play (with the added possibility of harvesting some seafood).

Moving SW is reasonable, as that gives you the extra production and the floodplains to play with. (Though as others have noted, the floodplains aren't going away; they may be more useful in a second or third city, which typically lags behind in culture anyway).

Shrug - I don't feel strongly about any of these plays, which probably suggests settling in place.

VoiceOfUnreason said:

Really? In a cultural game?

Click to expand...

I think so - but the position of the other river complicates things. Moving north or northeast might be worthwhile to get even more riverside tiles. And moving onto the plains hill isn't too bad either as you get some riverside tiles from the other river.

You want the riverside tiles for free commerce - esp at the beginning with financial. And you want them for production from levees later - esp good for culture with industrious. And they share your resources without building roads.

Being at the end of a river isn't so great though. Like you I'm not very excited about any of the options. I just know that I regret it usually when I don't build my capital on a river.

Thinking again I think I'd be tempted to go 1NE with my settler. Then either settle there or move back to start and settle. One turn lost either way.

The joys of AI stomping. After one frustrating first attempt were I lost two 80% battles vs barbs in a row, causing me to lose my second city I restarted and finished with a cultural win in 1735.

On Prince the Q rush is less effective - no archers to rush. It's safe to spend a few turns exploring with a settler - you may pop a goody hut or two and the return is much better with a settler than a Quecha.

ROUND ONE: 4000 BC TO 2225 BC

I decided to settle in place, and there was a food resource available that fit perfectly with my starting techs.



There's Corn to the south, and the border pop claimed it. As Huayna starts with Agriculture, I could then build a Worker sooner.

I decided to go ahead and build two more Quechas before getting the Worker started, so I could have additional units to do some exploring. My initial Quecha popped a couple of huts for gold.

By the way, all my Quechas are coming out with the Combat I promotion already. Did Warlords/BTS change the Quecha so that it automatically starts with that promotion, even though Huayna no longer has the Aggressive trait?

Buddhism was founded in 3675 BC, and then a couple of turns later, I got the other early religion.



I then picked Mining next, en route to Bronze Working so I could start chopping forest and locate Copper.

And as my exploration continued, I met my neighbors.







So there's three folks who can be pretty strong in the tech race. However, you will soon learn that a couple of them aren't in the best positions to be a threat, at least for the moment.

After my research path to Bronze Working was completed and Slavery was in place, I then grabbed a tech that would join Agriculture to complete the Pottery equation so I can get those Terraces in place.



In 2225 BC, my first Settler rolled out. I already produced two more Quechas and a Worker and have a second Worker being produced. Here's the map of my immediate area.



I'm already eyeing that Grassland square to the south of the Pigs for my second city site. That will allow me to claim a lot of Flood Plains for cottaging. The river and forests should help with health until I get my health resources hooked up to my cities.

Then I think I should start expanding to the west to try to block in Hannibal. In fact, Hannibal might be a target for an early Quecha rush, as Dave suggested. The only thing to be mindful of is that Hannibal has Copper nearby and I know he has Bronze Working... in fact, he has Gold in his BFC and that's no doubt helping his tech pace. If I'm going to do a Quecha rush, I'd have to be quick, or else I'll be facing Axemen instead of Archers.

Zara is off to the NW and his lands are surrounded by jungle from what I can see so far, so he's not likely to expand toward me. And Ragnar appears to be stuck on an island to the north of my continent... since the continent I am on is clearly in the southern part of the world, there's a chance that Ragnar may be on a small continent by himself with room to expand to the north, so he may not be a concern at this point.

Here's the land directly to my north.



There's some very desirable land to take once I get Iron Working.

So the things to consider at this point:

* The dotmap. I already have city No. 2 with a possible location, the Grassland square south of the Pigs. Would it be better to locate it in a different spot. And my plan is to expand to the west... any thoughts on city sites or a dotmap?
* Hannibal... what to do with him? Taking him out early might be desirable, as that's then one less tech fiend nearby. But the question is, can I get a rush in time before he gets Copper hooked up?
* Tech path... after Pottery, I definitely want Animal Husbandry for those Pigs, and then I think I may head toward Monotheism to see if I can win the Judaism race. Writing is also a priority.
* Wonders... I think Cuzco is a good spot for Stonehenge. Only thing is, would it be possible to get it if a Quecha rush is considered the best option?

Saved game follows.

I have a (probably noobish) question. What exactly is a flood plain (ingame)? Is it where a river runs through a desert?

I like 1 E of the Quecha, between the rice and pigs. With only 1 desert tile, two food resources, and three floodplains it screams GP farm. I would then settle 1 NE of the copper, and 1 E of the sugar will be a lucrative spot as well. Also, I like 1 E of the gems, 2 gems, rice, and functions as a canal.

Remember, a cultural victory requires lots of artists, so getting a GP farm should be a priority. With the sistine chapel an artist farm can be a good spot for a culture city as well.

why isn't hannibal dead?? :S seriously disapointing... if your going to build q's before workers at least kill someone... If not it is a huge waste...

Mattimeo said:

I have a (probably noobish) question. What exactly is a flood plain (ingame)? Is it where a river runs through a desert?

Click to expand...

To an extent, yes. Flood plains tend to be adjacent to desert squares, and some of the squares get indicated as "flood plains/desert" for some reason. Sometimes, though, a flood plain will be clustered among grassland and plains.

And for some reason, BTS has desert squares with a river running through them. I'm not entirely familiar with how the map generator works, so somebody who knows about that could explain more as to why that happens.

I've figured it out. From my experience, a flood plain is a Desert (no hills) tile with access to fresh water through a river (Oases and Lakes don't count).

Yeah. My friend and I had a game where my entire fat cross was flood plains. Needless to say I had a terrible economy, but I had one godly pop growth.