G-Minor 32

[img=right]http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gif[/img]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.


Settings:

• Victory Condition: Cultural (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Noble
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Small
• Map Type: Ice Age
• Speed: Normal
• Required: OCC Checked (Note: Permanent Alliance is needed to get 3 Legendary cities.)
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 1.74.002 or 2.13.002
• Date: 10th December 2007 to 10th January 2008

Must not play as Inca.

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

Woot! My idea got implemented. I think this may be interesting enough to get me out of my civ funk. Now off to find that old Beta gauntlet where people did this.

EDIT: Here is the thread.
EDIT 2: If you don't want to read the whole thread, go to page 5 (post #95). Further more, here is guide that was started after that gauntlet talking about PAs and cultural victories in them.

And I just realized that I must be in a helpful mood right now.

Wow, I can't believe that was almost 2 years ago. The goal then was just to see if it could be done. Now it's see how fast it can be done. Don't miss this one! It was a lot of fun the first time around. So many new strategy tactics like gifting Great People....IIRC you cannot culture bomb your PA partner. I'll have to go back and read that thread, thx for the link.

So, what happens? You have to get cities from another civ to go legendary? Crazy!

Harbourboy said:

So, what happens? You have to get cities from another civ to go legendary? Crazy!

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One can be yours, but yes, you have to get at least 2 cities from your chosen partner to go legendary.

WastinTime said:

Wow, I can't believe that was almost 2 years ago. The goal then was just to see if it could be done. Now it's see how fast it can be done. Don't miss this one! It was a lot of fun the first time around. So many new strategy tactics like gifting Great People....IIRC you cannot culture bomb your PA partner. I'll have to go back and read that thread, thx for the link.

Click to expand...

I'm playing a game right now. You cannot gift their cities legendary, however you can settle the GA in their cities. Gifting them the GA in the hope that they will bomb it is pretty futile, as they are more likely to either bulb it or save it for a golden age. My two biggest mistakes in my first game was not getting military tradition early enough for the DP (I actually only realized after I had researched communism that I would need it) and gifting three GA to my target only to see them wasted on golden ages and bulbing.

According to the BtS reference charts, Ramsesses, Asoka, Catherine, Hatshepsut, and Louis XIV should be the biggest wonder/cultural leaders. Surprisingly, Ramsesses is the most wonder/cultural person. So it was the ones I mentioned and Mansa that I included. Of course, I got stuck alone with Mansa. So I am trying to get Mansa to go legendary. I'm in the 1800s currently. My capitol is legendary, and I'm slowly working on both of Mansa's cities.

Shoot the Moon said:

According to the BtS reference charts, Ramsesses, Asoka, Catherine, Hatshepsut, and Louis XIV should be the biggest wonder/cultural leaders. Surprisingly, Ramsesses is the most wonder/cultural person. So it was the ones I mentioned and Mansa that I included. Of course, I got stuck alone with Mansa. So I am trying to get Mansa to go legendary. I'm in the 1800s currently. My capitol is legendary, and I'm slowly working on both of Mansa's cities.

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Why so many AI? Wouldn't you want to use the min amount so the wonders are more concentrated?

Also in my vanilla games I have found Ghandi and Asoka prioritize Broadway, R&R etc.

Since we're trying to be fast, wouldn't a common war be a better idea than Def. Pact? Then you don't need Military Tradition. Maybe that's too hard to manage. I know it's not the way I went last time.

Gifting GA's might not have worked for you, but who said anything about GA's? Try GE's. Great Engineers will get the wonders built in your partner's cities.

Regarding opponents, why pick all wonder builders/culture hounds? Just have one so that one gets almost everything. Then add Mansa, and maybe someone like Toku so you all can beat on him.

WastinTime said:

Since we're trying to be fast, wouldn't a common war be a better idea than Def. Pact? Then you don't need Military Tradition. Maybe that's too hard to manage. I know it's not the way I went last time.

Gifting GA's might not have worked for you, but who said anything about GA's? Try GE's. Great Engineers will get the wonders built in your partner's cities.

Regarding opponents, why pick all wonder builders/culture hounds? Just have one so that one gets almost everything. Then add Mansa, and maybe someone like Toku so you all can beat on him.

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Reading both threads about PA I missed exact numbers of how much turns between DP->PA and/or commonWar->PA. So if someone has these numbers already it would be nice to share them with us

WastinTime said:

Regarding opponents, why pick all wonder builders/culture hounds? Just have one so that one gets almost everything. Then add Mansa, and maybe someone like Toku so you all can beat on him.

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Sounds good in theory, but then you're putting all your eggs in one basket. That could backfire if he/she doesn't like you enough (e.g. maybe they're +more with another AI due to shared religion you don't have) or maybe they're not on your continent at the start. The latter would also make the common war theory difficult.

Vanilla may be at a disadvantage here - I don't know how GG generation works, but I think you just need a stack with a certain # of units and I bet they can bulb Military Tradition. Course that just gets you the DP/PA earlier - it won't help the AI build culture so maybe it's not too bad.

Anybody know which GP's (if any) give the PA tech a bulbing priority over other techs likely to be available then?

FiveAces said:

Anybody know which GP's (if any) give the PA tech a bulbing priority over other techs likely to be available then?

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There are two PA techs, but we probably want Communism for culture victory, not Fascism. It looks like a G.Artist is going to be the one to bulb that. Funny, he is the only one to value Military Tradition and he'll get that before Communism. So I don't think you can take the war route if you want to bulb. Be sure to avoid Constitution or the GA will want Democracy over Comm.
And avoid masonry if you want to skip all the religions techs.

Or just get Scientists and bulb Edu, Astron, Sci Meth, Liberalism, etc.

Dumb question for today: How do you get a Permanent Alliance with someone?

I'm not going to quote all of the questions because there were so many of them, but will try to answer most of them:

I take back including Hatshepsut, I was under mistaken impression that you couldn't have the same civ twice (I'm a little rusty on Civ and the HoF). So I was only 1 AI over normal. I think normal # would probably be better.

I don't think it matters if you have multiple AIs who prioritize wonders, as your PA partner will have such a huge tech lead (from being gifted by you) that they are pretty certain to build it (unless you choose to yourself).

The nine (?) cpt you get from a settled GA (you should easily get Sistine's) is better in my opinion than finishing a wonder faster with a GE, as that wonder will still get done (eventually).

I think two (maybe three) culture leaders are the best. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a bad idea, as Five Aces said. The two main reasons I see are them being on another continent or them having bad terrain.

GG don't bulb techs.

40 turns of shared war is a LONG time at normal speed. If you can do it, it is probably good, but it will be hard, as most of the culture hounds are also peace-nicks.

Interesting note on leaders: Washington is the only one whose favorite civic is free speech.

In terms of research, I think that the goals should be: CS, Drama (for Globe Theatre), Military Tradition (DP), and Communism (PA). for my next game I will go CS slingshot, Drama and Lit, Then Military Tradition through Liberalism. I will then go back and pick up some old techs (Theology for Sistine's etc.) Then it is a pretty short hop over to Communism. Once in the PA, radio and Mass Media followed by Biology and Railroad.

@ Harbourboy: Look at the first reply in this thread, the second edit has a rough guide link. Jesusin has also written a more recent (and in depth) one I believe.

Just finished a game in 1988. It is incredibly annoying getting an AI to go legendary. And then, as if to mock me, another AI's city went legendary before either of my PA civ's. Now to improve on that date (and there is a LOT of room for improvement).

This victory objective sounds VERY frustrating - especially given the lack of control you have over what happens.

Harbourboy said:

This victory objective sounds VERY frustrating - especially given the lack of control you have over what happens.

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It can be, especially in the end when you are stuck waiting, while the AIs build space ship parts and force change your civics through the U.N. However, the build up is very fun (I've always found the simplicity of OCCs attractive). In my game, the AI actually built cathedrals, which was nice. And that was Mansa, so I suspect that cultural AIs will more. the biggest control you have is settling GAs in their city and directing the research for both of you. Oh, and keeping them from building World Wonders by putting them in your build queue. I suspect a trick would be to keep the wonder in your queue until there is one turn left on the current build of one of the AI's legendary cities.

Oh, and keeping them from building World Wonders by putting them in your build queue. I suspect a trick would be to keep the wonder in your queue until there is one turn left on the current build of one of the AI's legendary cities.

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Why?

Also, how do you maximise Great Artists in your one and only city?

Well, after a very promising start, I found that I could never get a PA from my DP partner. What gives? I had a DP with them for nearly 60 turns before they canceled it near 2000 AD. Anyways, after that I tried to squeak out my time victory for QM, but the spaceship got built in 2046 AD! Grrr!?!?!?!?!

bshumbera said:

Well, after a very promising start, I found that I could never get a PA from my DP partner. What gives? I had a DP with them for nearly 60 turns before they canceled it near 2000 AD. Anyways, after that I tried to squeak out my time victory for QM, but the spaceship got built in 2046 AD! Grrr!?!?!?!?!

Click to expand...

You probably forgot to check the Perm Alliance box in the custom game screen when you start. Very important! I've made that mistake before.

Well my first try ended in a diplo defeat to Asoka in 1944, with 1 of my PA partner's cities legendary and 1 that wasn't gonna make it in time anyway.

Cyrus was a good choice - he had built 3 wonders, including sistine , had hindu and was building a mandir, then he built hollywood, R&R, and eiffel (stupidly I built broadway). I spammed him with confu and "borrowed" his happiness resources, and he immediately built temples and a confu academy . Problem was he built everything in his capital, so it went legendary easily but meant he lacked a 2nd viable city.

One thing I noticed - with the PA, I also got the +2culture from sistine. Can anybody confirm if this works the other way round - if you build sistine will your PA partner also get +2? That would be huge. Similarly, does anybody know if it works with eiffel? I had already built a tower when he finished the wonder so I couldn't tell.

That is a great suggestion about queuing wonders - I'm definitely doing that for the UN, since the only person who will have MM is your PA partner, and you want to research MM for hollywood.

Oh yeah - the settings - play wide continents and even with high seas, there is no "other continent". You can reach everybody with your workboat. At least on the map I played, anyway.

And once your towns are done, switch out of emancipation if your PA is running caste and getting +2 from sistine.

Also Cyrus and Roos appear to have the lowest threshholds for DP's and PA's. Ghandi's not too bad either, but you probably need to share a religion.