Difficulty level - what's respectable?

What difficulty level is generally regarded as "respectable"? Basically, the first difficulty level where you don't say "Yeah, this guy is new." I've been moving up slowly because I hate losing, so I have to force myself to try tougher difficulty levels. I haven't lost a game yet, but I'm a wuss and only playing at the Warlord difficulty.

I was thinking about this last night actually, and I ended up deciding that noble was the lowest "respectable" difficulty level. If you really have a good grasp of the game concepts and strategies, winning on noble shouldn't be overly difficult.

Though the AI and AI-civ bonuses have changed with the different expansions, so the relative difficulties of each level may vary depending on what version you're playing.

in my opinion, there is no level where i say to myself "this guy is new". what i want to see is "this guy is having fun". i've seen folks playing at deity and not having fun; i don't think "ooooh aaaah what a skilled player", i think "why play a game if it frustrates you that much? " so for me, if you hate losing, then spend what limited time you have at a level where you won't always lose, but that does provide some challenge as defined as "i'm not bored to tears". if the next difficulty level is too big a jump, maybe play the current level but give yourself restrictions so that you get a challenge for a while and aren't bored, and maybe you work up the confidence to later go up the level if that's a goal you want to work toward.

i have my own scoring system that i put far more value on than i do firaxis's "official" in game one. did i have fun, giggle, and/or pull off something new for the first time? did i surprise myself doing stuff i didn't think i could do, or recovering from a mistake? did i get revenge on whoever killed me most recently? that sort of thing. but when i lose, i do feel better when the game considers me a good loser and gives me a ranking of Ethelred the Unready (3rd from bottom) and not Dan Quayle (the very bottom, you haven't yet had that honor). i'm a permanoob, i admit it. it makes me giggle and it lets me get away with a lot of crazy stuff . i have a blast playing; to me that's the point.

being a wuss isn't bad. spending what limited time you have playing a game that constantly makes you want to tear out your hair in frustration, that (in my opinion) is "ummm, what are you thinking?"

but, my #1 rule above anything else is, play in a way that's fun for you, don't let what anybody else thinks interfere with that. so if some folks do get a kick out of constant hair-tearing-out, then they should go for it. me questioning their sanity is certainly no reason to stop; folks question mine just about every time i speak or type, and i clearly haven't stopped doing that.

mostly joking disclaimer: i'm a girl. i honestly don't know how much of that attitude is a result of that. the stereotype is that guys are more competitive about stuff like this.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. No one is playing Civ professionally, so just have fun. There are way too many factors at play to give an all encompassing answer.

For example, is a cherry picked win on Immortal against specific opponents with rerolled starts really any more impressive than a random setting Emperor win?

And a peaceful builder type win on Monarch is a lot more impressive to me than an axe or Praet rush fueled Emperor win.

I suppose that if you can win every victory condition on Prince, then you've probably got a broad understanding of the game, if you really want me to commit to an answer. Though I'd hear out a case for Noble as well.

KMadCandy...after browsing this general thread and reading your most recent posts, you really brought a smile to my day. Sometimes I forget you gotta enjoy the good times in the game (like spanking Montezuma), and not dwell on the humiliating stuff Shaka just killed you with. A loss is not almost never a total loss.

Lol #1 criteria in determining how well your current game went:

"Did I giggle?"

don't think you have to impress people, I don't think the difficulty really shows you have any better understanding of the game. I've seen people who say they play on the higher levels say some dumb things

My understanding is that Noble is the level where neither of the human player and the AI have built-in advantages over the other (or if there are advantages in particular areas, they're offset by disadvantages in other areas). Winning on Noble is respectable in my eyes, but as has been said, the point is to have fun. I've won on Monarch but didn't really enjoy it.

KMadCandy said:

in my opinion, there is no level where i say to myself "this guy is new". what i want to see is "this guy is having fun". i've seen folks playing at deity and not having fun; i don't think "ooooh aaaah what a skilled player", i think "why play a game if it frustrates you that much? " so for me, if you hate losing, then spend what limited time you have at a level where you won't always lose, but that does provide some challenge as defined as "i'm not bored to tears". if the next difficulty level is too big a jump, maybe play the current level but give yourself restrictions so that you get a challenge for a while and aren't bored, and maybe you work up the confidence to later go up the level if that's a goal you want to work toward.

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That is soooo true! I made the jump from Settler to Warlord (sorry, still a noob ) and couldn't survive at Warlord at all. Maybe due to the fact that I'm new. It was so frustrating.

Now I'm at Chieftain, and getting the hang of things. More importantly I'm having fun!

Maben said:

KMadCandy...after browsing this general thread and reading your most recent posts, you really brought a smile to my day. Sometimes I forget you gotta enjoy the good times in the game (like spanking Montezuma), and not dwell on the humiliating stuff Shaka just killed you with. A loss is not almost never a total loss.

Lol #1 criteria in determining how well your current game went:

"Did I giggle?"

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Looks like Kmad has a stalker.

Maben said:

you really brought a smile to my day.

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yay!!!!!!!! when i look at my post count it sure scares me. i really don't know how it got that high , i ought to be locked up. but i sure do like that some of the posts make folks smile.

obliterate said:

Looks like Kmad has a stalker.

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ph pshaw! all the post said was that my post made Maben smile. i don't even know if Maben is male or female. oh but that's sexist actually, females can be stalkers too. anyway, even if Maben is the potential stalker-type in general, which i doubt, surely he or she has heard of my oh-so-fearsome warmongering abilities and knows better than to stalk me! wouldn't you be terrified of a real-life, ummm ... what would be the equivalent of an axe-rush by my dogs? they're little dogs, and they're really sweet but the bad guys don't know that. so hopefully they pay more attention to the barking than to the wagging tails and the "omg omg someone new, please pet me please pet me!!" looks. my dogs are crazy. they get it from their father.

anyway you silly thing, don't assume the worst . read your own sig *gigglefest*! then again, in context it's not exactly the most optimistic song in the universe is it?

6K Man said:

My understanding is that Noble is the level where neither of the human player and the AI have built-in advantages over the other (or if there are advantages in particular areas, they're offset by disadvantages in other areas). Winning on Noble is respectable in my eyes, but as has been said, the point is to have fun. I've won on Monarch but didn't really enjoy it.

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Noble was the 1st level where I had to actually plan ahead, think about production and commerce cities and stuff. At lower levels the game was very forgiving of my mistakes.

Play to have fun is the rule above all. But I suppose I can give my opinion on what I think about the difficulties and what impresses me.

Noble, Prince and Monarch is respectable. Emperor, Immortal and Diety is impressive.

But there's also the matter of how you win... a duel map Preat rush isn't exactlt difficult to pull of with a little practice.

But don't play on higher difficulties if you don't have fun. No need to get frustrated and throw the monitor out the window.

It's a game which you are most likely playing in single player mode, so the first thing to do is make sure you're having fun.

If you like to compare your results with others to see how you're doing, then remember that there are lots of settings that can change the difficulty of a game other than the difficulty setting. Quality of starting position, game speed, map size, civilization, map type, whether player reloads or not, etc. So don't be discouraged when you see someone writing that say monarch level is easy. It has to do with lots of other settings.

Also note that the average experience level of the players on civfanatics centre is probably (way) above average. All the sharing of strategies and the sharing of insight in game mechanics will improve the gameplay of everyone reading some threads here. You're also less likely to find occasional players here. Most people who are a member will play this game a lot. So when you compare your level with the average player here, you're not comparing your level with the average player.

Have fun with the game.

I think it varies person to person. I was happy for a long time on Settler - until I found that I won every time. Then it stopped being fun.

I found that making the jump though was too hard. Warlord required a better understanding of the game concepts than I had. So - I was kind of stalled.

Finally I reached out to the community and asked for help. Now, I am having a blast on my new Warlord game trying out all the new things namliaM and others have taught me.

So, the common answer here seems to be, play on the level that is fun to you. I would add though, if you get stuck - ask the Fanatics to help! They are a great bunch of folks!

There is no established respectable level. The higher levels are so restrictive on how you can play, since you are required to do certain things to keep up in tech / army. Options disappear on the higher levels and you really have to focus on the specific mechanics of the game. I, personally, enjoy playing the game for the experience of playing, not winning and getting a high score.

That being said:

I regularly jump between Warlord and Noble. I go in spurts with CIV. For example, before my last game, I hadn't played in about 2 months. After a 2 month break, I come back and Noble is destroying me, so I go down to Warlord. Now I find that I'm having a hard time on Warlord, WTH! lol. I was on my way to winning regularly on Noble during my last spurt 2 months ago. Now I have to relearn all my stuff!

Have fun. I am in the process of moving to Noble. I'm stuck in this hole where I can't win in noble (get killed normally) and win almost every time in the level below (chieftain?). When I started to make this jump my enjoyment changed. Before it was just fun to play and auto everything. Now I stopped autoing everything and have fun trying to figure out the details of the game. I played civ2 and 3 as a permanoob.

I have no respect for anyone who can't beat Deity.

I have no respect for myself.

Can I beat Deity?

I have been playing on Noble and currently have my 2nd attempt at a prince level game going right now. I have to put so much more time into each turn and make sure I don't make a mistake while I'm learning this level and what works and was doesn't.
I'd say it depends on what you value in the game. If the highest point total ever is important, then I think you need to increase the difficulty to increase the points. If you just like expanding quickly and building an empire, keep it lower. If you like a tough fight when you go to war with someone, or want more fighting from the AI, turn it up.
I like discovering new techs that allow me to build new units like gunpowder, steel, iron, etc... I also like founding religions. IT's just what makes the game fun for me, so I'll keep the difficulty lower so that I can discover technologies first, which with my current skill level is noble. If my prince game isn't fun, or if I try a couple more and they are not fun, then I'll drop back to noble.
I prefer to play the game the way I like to play it, and determine the difficulty needed based on that. I don't like having the difficulty determine how I play. So, I don't really care what the difficulty setting is.

I'm not content to just 'play for fun' - I like to have a challenge, or at least be at an even footing with the relatively experienced players. I know saying that I don't 'play for fun' makes it sounds as if I don't have fun when I play, but that's absolutely not the case. 'Play for fun' is simply a phrase now that means you don't take it seriously - it doesn't really have any bearing on whether you enjoy the experience or not.

Personally, I need a challenge. Not an insurmountable challenge, but enough to keep my interest. I like looking at what my peers do. My opinion is "If the general concensus says 'This is where an experienced player should be', then that's the goal I set for myself. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to get there if others can get there."

My motivation has always been competition with others. I'm not keen on playing this game's multiplayer, since I usually like to watch TV or a movie when I play Civ games. When I want to do multiplayer, I go for Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike Source, Planetside, WoW, etc.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that to clarify the reason for my original question. I appreciate the folks who recommended just playing for fun, but like everyone, I have my own definition of fun. It's not better or worse than anyone elses', it's just my own. There always seems to be two main groups of gamers...people who just play for fun regardless of the outcome, and people who like to compete with others.

I would say it is largely relative. Winning on Prince would no doubt be an impressive feat to someone who can't win on Chieftain, but probably wouldn't mean much to the person who always beats Deity.

Also, the level a person plays isn't necessarily reflective of their ability. Many of the vets on these boards seem to play at Monarch. Not that they can't win at higher levels, it's just that Monarch is a nice relaxing pace for them, and enables ample room for creativity. Some people enjoy playing at levels that push them to the limit, even though they might lose most of the time.

Anyway, don't worry about it. It is unlikely anyone will even remember what level you play, and if they did, it is even less likely that they will care.

Just enjoy yourself.