LotR25 Corporate Culture

LotR25 Corporate Culture
Difficulty Level: Monarch
Map size: Standard
Map: Perfect World
Civ and Leader: Gandhi of the Indians
Traits: Philosophical and Spiritual
Game Speed: Epic
Most other things: Default settings
Win Condition(s): All enabled – our win target is cultural
Variant: We may never run artists, turn up the culture slider, or use a great artist as a settled specialist or for a great work.

Roster:
Arathorn --playing now
Methos -- on deck
Tatran
Admiral_Kutzov
LKendter

Starting position....



Comments on starting position being taken. And starting tech. I'd like to make an early religion run, but we don't have Sailing and that'd be huge for the sea resources we have. I've already moved the warrior (NE) and haven't seen much more.

PerfectWorlds doesn't seem to be quite as resource-generous at the starting position as some other generators.

I'm leaning towards one west, research sailing while building a defensive warrior (starting one scouts), then trying for religion founding while building work boats. And go without a worker for quite a long time. Thoughts? With all the forests, we could then chop a number of things.

Long-term, our capital could become a great GPP farm, with 3 seafood resources.

Arathorn

Signing in.

Edit:

Arathorn said:

Long-term, our capital could become a great GPP farm, with 3 seafood resources.

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What was the final word on Sistine? If our capital becomes one of our three, and we use it as a GP Farm, we'll be going against our variant rules a bit.

I agree with moving 1 west. Without that the fish will probably never be claimed.

For the GPP farm question - lets figure out the 3 culture cities first that will be heavy shields to build some wondrers. I don't want to commit to anything before then.

I don't know if we will pull of a religion with sailing. That is a tough call.


How about early wonders? Stonehenge would really help with this variant...

Off the top of my pointy little head, brain cell on turbo...

PerfectWorlds doesn't seem to be quite as resource-generous at the starting position as some other generators.

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what do you want, 5 cows?

research sailing

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no fishing. Fishing gets us dinghys, sailing gets us lighthouses.

One west gets us 3 food, 9 coast/ocean (Moai?), fresh water and 5 hills. My imaginary friend, Igor, suggests this gives us a hybrid city that will be able to have enough food to run specialists and shields (hammers, whatever, see sig).

Leads us to the debate about fishing v. a religious tech. My math skills are limited to 22 digits (don't ask, genetic problem), but it appears that boats essentially double the food output of the fish/clams (ok, a little more than double on the fish.) Stated goal is a minimum of 3 religions. So, if'n we go fishing, poly, masonry, where does that put us? Does that get us 2 with the possibility of grabbing a third religion from oracle? Do we need a different path like bronze before masonry? I don't see early pottery as doing us max goodness.

the build order? I'm idiotic, but stonehenge until fishing comes in, then switch to a boat. the boat builds, then back to stonehenge until bronze is in? or do we want another exploring warrior?

Variant: We may never run artists, turn up the culture slider, or use a great artist as a settled specialist or for a great work.

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No culture bombs? This suggests that if we don't get music, we're in deep do-do. As a back up we should consider not polluting the Great person gene pool. That would mean Delhi is our GProphet city (stonehenge and oracle). It also suggests we want to follow the yellow brick road to the GLib.

As always, subject to change upon fog busting.

In corpspeak, keeping with the spirit of the game, it appears that moving subject settler 1W would maximize the synergy of our starting position. However, I am concerned with our lack of a mission statement...

Long-term, our capital could become a great GPP farm, with 3 seafood resources.

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don't we want at least 2 if not three, GPP?

the brain cell has now over-heated. rebooting.

The settler has 2 movement points. I would go to the grassland first to see a few more tiles.
Going 1W is the best solution, but starting with 11 water tiles isn't optimal.
But with the Moai statues wonder + 4 hills, production shouldn't be a problem in Delhi.

What's the second start tech for India, Mysticism and ???.
If it's Mining I vote for Fishing -> Bronze Working
We don't need to found a religion to get it, see LK139. (We've only founded 1, but have 6).

Tatran said:

The settler has 2 movement points. I would go to the grassland first to see a few more tiles.

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I agree. Going S first could show much better land to the south and even if it doesn't, it won't change anything by following up with 1NW.

Stonehenge is nice, but it would be best to complete an obelisk before Stonehenge. SH obelisks never double their culture and once SH is obsolete, the obelisk is gone. If we build the obelisk first the culture will double and still earn culture even after being obsolete. +1 and/or +2 may not seem like much, but by late in the game really add up to the total.

@AK: I'd forgotten what it was like to play with you. I think it's been since . This should be really interesting!

I agree with S to the grasslands, then NW to the river forest if nothing is visible. doesn't cost anything and pops some fog.

I agree with the rational on a monument before stonehenge, but disagree with the delay sinking the shields/hammers into it. this game ain't gonna be won on a monument's culture, it will be won on corporate culture. We need to keep up our tech lead or stay near the top and grab corporations.

Having said that, Delhi would be a fine city for Wall Street

@ Methos, IIRC, I knew you before you became a moderator (insert Winnie the Pooh moderator voice). Not sure if we ever played an SG, or if we just bonded in the MTDG1. I will try to restrain myself.

Gandhi gets Myst and Mining to start, just checked.

Admiral Kutzov said:

@ Methos, IIRC, I knew you before you became a moderator (insert Winnie the Pooh moderator voice). Not sure if we ever played an SG, or if we just bonded in the MTDG1. I will try to restrain myself.

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Arab Invasion during the summer of 2005. I joined late to help finish the game. And I knew myself before I was a moderator too, so that's not saying much!

Definitely on the S, NW move for the settler, if S shows nothing. It showed nothing. So Delhi was founded a turn late, in range of 3 seafood.

There was a hut to the NE. We got Wheel when we popped it. I took a screenie, but I imagine we've all seen that kind of thing before, so it's not reproduced.

Research started immediately on Fishing. An AI with Mysticism going directly for a religion and with any sea squares/lakes or much of anyting will beat us to the first religion. We need to get Delhi up and running, agreed.

Exploration north reveals an isthmus up there with lots of good forested grassland for chopping and then irrigating (post-CS) or cottaging. Grassland is good. Forested grasslands are even better. But it's reasonably small up there.

After Fishing comes in, I'm met with my first serious check. How to arrange Delhi's tiles (1 hammer or 2 commerce?) and what tech to go after.

Bronze Working is appealing, but it only really helps in deciding where to put our second city (still a long ways off) or if we're chopping (but we have no worker and won't for quite a while) or we need to whip. Polytheism may or may not net a religion, but it leads to a second religion and we'll need/want it fairly quickly anyway. I go for Poly as our second tech.

I also switch Delhi over to workboat. I'm going to work forested grasses until we have an improved coast tile. Less commerce but faster boat and more oomph eventually.

3700 shows the wisdom in eschewing the first religion. Buddhism founded. Not in Delhi. There's absolutely no way we could have gotten there first. I'm glad we didn't even try.

More exploration shows a hungry lion, so our single warrior is healing in the desert and there's nothing to do for a while.

By 2400 BC, I'm almost done exploring. We're on a *small* island. We're going to need Sailing relatively early. At least we'll be able to fully dotmap our surroundings pretty early. Map at the end, though. No sense doing it now. Grass north of Delhi, desert east. Not a whole lot else.

I do work the coast a couple turns to shave one turn off Poly then. We're alone. We want our own religion.

I don't know if the one turn shave was necessary, but ....



Then I went onto Masonry, while Delhi grew and worked on a workboat. Two religions in Delhi could be huge with two shrines and how much we are going to spread them. Heck, if we're feeling really bold (since we're alone, we might be), we could go BW, Priesthood, and try to chop an Oracle to found Christianity in Delhi before we even found our second city. Oddish hydra, but one I think will work. Monotheism for Judaism first, naturally.

Northern Indian boot:



Southern Indian boot:



Dot maps, anyone?

We also really need to decide on a tech path before Methos plays. My vote is Monotheism, Bronze Working, Priesthood (for Oracle), Sailing, while building workboats 2 and 3, worker, Oracle (Henge between worker and Oracle if needed), etc.

Roster:
Arathorn
Methos -- UP NOW
Tatran -- on deck
Admiral_Kutzov
LKendter

Arathorn

Hey, Arathorn? I don't know if this is an OK idea, but this is my only chance.

I need to know if you could add me to the roster, either as a sixth person or as an alternate.

Thanks.

Hey, Arathorn? I don't know if this is an OK idea, but this is my only chance.

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Nope. I only run five-man rosters, as a general rule. Sign-ups are always in the general thread (LotR Series). If/when the next one comes around, and it meets your ability level, feel free to sign up. As for alternates, I doubt I'll need one with this line-up, but I appreciate the offer.

I will try to restrain myself.

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Well, enough to not get banned or limited on the boards, yes. But keep the insanity, please. I wouldn't recognize you without it. And so funny so often.

don't we want at least 2 if not three, GPP?

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I'm not sure why we would. Generally, one well-done GPP farm will produce enough faster that it's hard to have a reasonable second. And a third is generally useless. Not that it can't run specialists, just that it probably won't ever produce a great person. We definitely need to get National Epic up and running soon in this game, though.

What was the final word on Sistine?

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None was given. I'm going to say it's OK. The culture from it might be nice, but it won't approach that from corporations, I believe. I'm not sure it's worth prioritizing too much, honestly.

How many turns should Methos play?

Hmmm...that was silly of me not to say. I'd say 30. In that time, we can hopefully get a couple techs, a couple things built, and have some decisions to start making as a team again. Probably 20 or 25 for Tatran then.

How about early wonders?

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Well, yeah, we want 'em. I'm not sure how we'll get them, though, with no stone/marble and limited production around. Chopping, I suppose. I'd prioritize Oracle over Stonehenge, but both would be nice, I agree. 9ish hammers invested in the 'henge, but that's not much. 'Mids would also be really nice. And so would Great Lighthouse. But we can't get them all. We should really discuss prioritization on them all. I'd go Oracle, Lighthouse, Pyramids, Stonehenge in order from highest to lowest. Colossus probably between 'mids and 'henge, though they're not really in direct competition. Great Library would be nice, too. But a ways off.

Dot maps, anyone?

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I had a go, though I don't really like them much.



- Red dot is probably our best producer (or second behind Delhi), with the plains wheat providing food to help work a couple hills.
- Orange dot seemed the best place to get crabs (and can also work the cows).
- Yellow dot got squeezed in there by the placement of orange dot -- later filler city to work all the tiles.
- Green dot is a larger filler city that can be immensely cottaged for good income later. Or irrigated once we have Civil Service.



- Red dot from above
- Blue dot captures all three food bonuses and reclaims a desert tile. An excellent Maoi candidate.
- Pink dot filler to grab that last plains hill pre-biology. Could probably claim the clams from blue a fair bit of the time. Very late city working mostly water tiles and helping primarily with shrine income, I'd think.

Other issues?

Fish or clams next? Fish gets more food but clams are coastal and provide more commerce. We can grow quite a while (size 6, IIRC) happily and healthily. I'd go fish next.

Arathorn

BTW you've uploaded the 3500 BC save.

Isn't that 40 turns?

I'll check when I get home.

Arathorn

Arathorn said:

Isn't that 40 turns?

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No, it's only 20 turns. Poly is showing 8 turns to completion. We can use the pics for now.

I´m not too happy with all those dots, but we need at least 9 cities.

We have only resources for Sid´s Sushi so far. It´s time to send out a scoutboat.
Building wonders and cathedrals without marble, stone and copper isn´t optimal and consumes too many resources.

Pink dot: I don't see the need for this city, at least not yet. Will it make enough to make it worthwhile? I know you mentioned it could borrow the clam from Blue dot, but if Blue dot uses all its food resources it'll make an excellent GP Farm (it should be able to support five specialists). If we have enough religions/shrines and the maintenance costs aren't too high, I could see the possibility of this city being worth it, but I hesitate to plant it until we know for certain. I'm guessing this would be the last city planted anyway.

Orange Dot: I can't tell from the pic, but is it entirely forested grass?

Blue Dot: As I already stated under Pink dot, this will be a nice GP Farm. With a lighthouse it'll support five specialist.

My preference based on your dot map would go with red, blue, and possibly orange, in that order. Hopefully we can find better spots on that other landmass to our NW.

Arathorn said:

Fish or clams next? Fish gets more food but clams are coastal and provide more commerce.

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I prefer the fish. Faster growth means quicker access to more commerce. The clams would only be good if we needed that extra immediately.

Tatran said:

I'm not too happy with all those dots, but we need at least 9 cities.

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I agree with Tatran. It feels like we are shoving too many cities onto the map. Maybe we should stick with the top few until we find out if we can claim another land area.

Let's see what's on the NW landmass before we put down our third city.

I like blue dot for much later.

Red, orange, and blue all feel like very good dots to me. The rest are potentials, for later. But if we don't think about them, we could end up eliminating any potential for them later.

Which dot should go first? I'm tempted by red, honestly. I think it's got great potential, even with the capital overlap (not an issue for a long time, I imagine).

One concern I have is the lack of happy resources on our land. We need to explore to our west and claim some of that land. I don't see a HUGE hurry, but it needs to be done, maybe with 3rd workboat? Maybe with galleys later.

Arathorn

IMHO the only good sites on the map are northern crab / cows (red dot), southern wheat (red dot again?), and cows / seafood (blue dot).

None of these sites stand out, and even copper won't be that big of an influence. I lean a bit toward avoiding blue as this site is high income, but low production. I like some production out of city 2.