Role Play Challenge: A Gentleman of Culture II

Gentleman Shaka: Start

Welcome to the repeat game of Shaka, A gentleman of culture. After losing a close cultural race (well maybe not so close) after coming back from a slow start I decided to try this again, this time on a hemisphere map. The first game was succusfully shadowed by another player so this type of victory goal is reasonable. As always, I like to have a demonstration of a certain strategy as well as having fun. The purpose of this game is to show how cultural wins can be accomplished without the religious route, and also to give a good demonstration of Shaka's warring abilities (which we did see in the first game). Rules are the same

Now Shaka is generally our most feared foe in the game. The poor guy is so misunderstood. Sure he pillages and wrecks civilizations with his monsterous army from the beginnings throughout the modern era, but have any of you really tried to get to know him. He is really a gentle soul, desiring simple peace and harmony throughout the world, and if anyone disagreed he'll have your guts for breakfast!!!

SO let us see what this man is all about

The rules
1) Shaka can only win via culture, all other victoires are left on for the AI (including time).
2) Shaka's first legondary city is his capital. The other 2 must be captured AI capitals
3) Shaka has no problems with religion, but catherdrals are prohibited (unless somehow present after capturing an AI capital). In contrast to HOLY SAL where artists were prohibited and cathedrals emphasized, we are going in the other direction here. The bulk of culture will come from artists, great artists, corps, culture slider, wonders.

Guidelines
1) Aside from the rules, all is in play!!!! Warring is obviously a requirement, and early for the AI capitals. We just have to make sure we do not get an accidental Domination

Settings
Marathon speed
Monarch difficulty
Hemisphere Map
All else is random

Our distinguished leader.




And the start




Very interesting start. We want the capital to be a good GP farm similar to the first game, so the question is do we settle on the spot or 1W to get all the floodplains into Ulandhi's BFC? Tech path looks to be AH first for the cows, and build is a work so we can work the wheat and cows ASAP.

What do we all think?


PS: Asoka and the Doomsday wepon are next in the RPC order, followed by the Glory of Rome, a OCC game.

madscientist said:

Gentleman Shaka: Start

Very interesting start. We want the capital to be a good GP farm similar to the first game, so the question is do we settle on the spot or 1W to get all the floodplains into Ulandhi's BFC? Tech path looks to be AH first for the cows, and build is a work so we can work the wheat and cows ASAP.

What do we all think?

Click to expand...

Settling 1W, you will lose the ability to add a levee later in the game. You could actually go 2W in 1 move, thereby settling next to the river, however then you'd be 1 from the coast (but still with access to the cows and wheat).

Settling in place, you get +1 from the hill, and you might get better production (for building wonders), depending on what's east.

My usual course of action in this case is to settle in place, and then use the floodplains for a 2nd city. The generator might have given you something east of the starting spot.

Yeah, I think it would be better to settle where the scout is. You'll get an irrigated Corn, Cows, hills, forests, and lovely floodplains. Move the scout to the hill and see if more floodplains can be found. Leave the east for a second city.

Hmm... Not much of food, but a good start all along.

I think there are several possible moves (yeah, yeah, I discovered America!):

1: Settle in place.

Pros: + It gives you an instant bonus to production, which mixes with your faster Worker.
+ Grabs all the resources
+ Grabs a floodplain (only one, though), and a lot of grasslands to the east...
+ Fresh water
Cons:
- ...but there are still plains
- you get only one floodplain
- only one hill for production!

2: My proposal - Settling 1SW.

Pros:
+ you get all the resources
+ you get much more flood plains

Cons:

- still one hill...
- plains
- lack of fresh water (less relevant since you are Expansive)
- you need to miss a turn.

Settling on the place of the Scout is risky - I suppose that to the west of the flood plain there is MUCH of useless desert tiles, that I find unpleasant for the all-important capital.

This is one of the situations where I'd love to have a map popped from a hut. When you need to make a tough choice where to settle, you get a big help in what surrounds your land and what's around. (although if this were on the coast you may get a stupid see on the sea...)

You can also settle 1S, which will give you the river for a Levee and the resources, but we don't see a lot... Move the scout.

It is nice, that you started another Shaka game. I wish you more luck this time. I am playing a shadow game(no Arians this time thx God), without any spoilers, it is 750BC and I am doing very well. I will post my progress, when you reach this stage.

Why not settle 2 south. Food is going to be key over here so you will need as many floodplains as you can. This also makes you riverside so you get some extra health and will still be able to get a levee.

Although I can understand that you might want to keep some floodplains for city number 2. There is not much production in the area although horses, iron or copper could pop in the right upper grassland. I have a definite feeling about that.

Moving the scout 2 times SE might reveal a lot more. This is going to be very nice again. Too bad from part 1 but it was a blast.

Genmtleman Shaka II: Part I

OK I decided to start with this game right away. I'll spare you the pleasentries demonstratindg Shaka's high upbringing and distinquished class. He's out to prove himself this time.

First of all, the game was set for hemisphere's with 2 continents, random everything else. We got an arid map, something to take into account as we have alot of desert arround us, but do not worry, things are off to a good start, and so far 2 other AIs on our landmass!

First off all I sent the scout SW onto the hill to get the best view. And what a view.



Oh yeah. If we move west with the settler we get floodplains but also desert in the BFC. We trust the computer and settle in place, taking the extra hammer in the capital.



OK, not that bad, not so hot. Definitely 5 or 6 grasslands that we can farm, we are OK.

Our scout was quite productive until he got eaten by a lion. Got us 33 gold, a scout, and



Not the nest tehc, but more food is alwasy good, and we can work the lake for 2 commerce once we hit the happy cap.

Very quickly we meet two AIs





Well, we did not want things to be that easy for old Shaka did we. My feelings is that we need to take Napolean out fast, Toku is tough but a bit of tech superiority (catapults) should be able to take Toku down.

Who was it who mentioned that upper corner grassland.

Oh, before I forget, our techpath

AH/wheel/archery/mining/BW



Horse in the BFC!!!!

Ouyr build in the capital to start

worker/scout/warrior/Ikandi/warrior/worker/archer/archer/settler

The I filled in some chariots/archers and started another settler about half done at the save. Why save now, we after BW



Yes, three sources between us and Paris!!! OK, which one, we certainly cannot block Nappy from all of them.

A llitle better view of Napoelan's eastern border



Yes, the little general is certainly boxed in. He will fight us off fast.

And to the wast of our capital



Yet another copper source which cannot be pillaged so easily.

OK folks, seams pretty obvious what we have to do, but how do we go about it.

1) I have 2 chariots already, I say station them on the west and mow down any french settler we see.

2) Where do we drop the third city? I like the western shore to get the marble but best would be to have the city between the three resources. That means building a monument and waiting. The northern shore copper would have a wheat in it. The stone we can capture later on once Paris falls.

What says everyone!!!!

Make a settler in uMgu-muglemu (whatever) too, asap. The settler from Ulundi could settle to the east, on the hill northeast of the sheep, which would (with borderpop) give stone and wheat as well. Not the best city, I know, but my main reason is that with roads to those resources, you're more than halfway over to Nappy, your army will run on pavements all the way over there.

The settler from uMgu-bugglywiggly (whip him out) should go either west (to grab the "safe" copper there, or northeast, to grab the northern copper (but in the latter case, those two new cities would then compete for the wheat, which may not be so good). I'm most inclined to think the western copper is the best option for the bugglywigglysettler.

And +10 "OH YEAH!" - finally I'll see Nappy dead :-D

EDIT: The "advice" (silly me) abowe was written before I noticed that I had counted the tiles wrong. The hill northeast of sheep is actually three tiles away from the copper, not two. My bad, without the tilegrid I easyly get confused. You'll have to pick a sligthly better spot. But my point is that somewhere around there you'll get more than two resources in BFC, and you'll get pavements almost all the way over to Nappy. End EDIT

{A bit off topic now: I no longer fear Boudica I have crushed her! Razed 17 of her cities (including her Holy one), resettled her land, and left her brewing in her own juices with one city left, on a desolate, icy island with two resources; copper and sheep, which I of cource demanded in tribute. Outside her city I placed 5 privateers as soon as I had them. She's one furious vassal (-29), her fangs are showing every time I try to speak to her. For more than 3000 years she's been trying to participate in the game by painstakingly building ancient boats, which I sink as soon as they get out on water. Her total force is one gallic warrior, 2 longbowmen and one worker. But in 1800somethingAD I got mellow and gifted her civil service, just so that she could irrigate the farmland she didn't have :-D

And for the record, it was she who attacked me, I was innocently building wonders, as usual (apart from the fact that I killed Shaka back when I had only phalanxes - what can you do, when you settle, the fog lifts and oops! extremely close borders, we were practically in each others BFC's). Afterwards his Holyness Charlieboy died, he spied on me one time too many. Killed him off, since I wanted to keep all his cities. Perikles rocks!}

And if you think I'm gloating, you're right. My first dominition vic, I always go the peaceful path to diplo/culture/space. And I owe most of the glory to RPC and ALC, following yours and Sisiutil's threads has tought me a lot.

Now go kill Nappy for me

A charriot rush it out of the question? That could prove to be very effective since it looks like Nappy only has 1 city so far but propably will move out with a settler and some units leaving the capital lightly defended.

Hah, and I was right about the horse resource (expected iron though). The western city with marble, copper and cows is a must have for this variant.

On the other hand if you want copper quickly a city to the SW of the northern copper would net in the stone, copper and wheat. It will be a junk city with not many usable tiles (6 desert or so) but you can use it as a springboard to get axes and jump Nappy with it. Maybe the best course for now if you are not going to do a chariot rush. =As Carabodes said, now go kill Nappy

Great to see you try again! I've been following yourseries, it's time to show those AIs how fiery and hot Shaka is. (It's an arid map.....)

What's the hate for the Emperor? Have you located Kyoto yet? But what ever you do, don't forget the OMG sie of holy FOURGOLDs and copper. That city can win you the game.

ConanKND said:

What's the hate for the Emperor?

Click to expand...

He's simply annoying, ruining my peaceful games, making arrogant demands. And no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to get rid of him, our wars are always stalemate.

So in Chivalrous Washington I was supposed to get my revenge, finally seeing somebody get rid of the Tiny General, but alas, it was not to be, the emperor survived yet another game. I just want somebody (madscientist f.ex.) to prove that The Tiny One is not immortal, that he actually can be beaten.

Start the gold rush! I reckon you should settle on the copper which picks up the copper, 2 gold and some rice, or 1 NE on the hill to get the copper and 3 gold - trouble is that unless there is some sea food in that fog off the coast the city is going to be hungry.

Oh yer, I go to london for the weekend and when I come back I find that HC has turned in to a ravening beast! I'm glad your giving Shaka anouther go straight away. Personally I'm really looking forward to your OCC with Rome, as I've never tried one myself.

I think i'd put my copper city on the hill between the northern copper and the wheat or 1 NW of the southern copper on the plains square, giving access to the rice as well as the copper and gold, think that city will need all the food it can get.

Personally I think you should ignore the copper and chariot rush Napolean.

Fast. Easy. Fast.

Oh, and did I mention a chariot rush would be FAST?

-abs

"The faster Nappy is dead and buried the faster you can build an econ and start thinking about Tokugawa."

I just noticed if you go 1NW of the southern copper you pick up the oasis in the second ring so you gain more food and keep everything you'd get from settling on the copper. I reckon this is better than on the copper. Also is the rice in some jungle? If it is then actually going for the norther copper would be better as you have the wheat to farm straight off.
I still like the southern site most though.

absimiliard said:

Personally I think you should ignore the copper and chariot rush Napolean.

Fast. Easy. Fast.

Oh, and did I mention a chariot rush would be FAST?

Click to expand...

Not a bad plan would still get a copper city ASAP though
Do you think you have time to put a chariot on the hill north of the cows near paris? then you can check out his garrison, meaning you can declare on one turn and kill him on the next as you can bring enough units to guarantee the win
It also lets you see if he has built a settler

It's only 2320 BC and we have 2 cities, 2 chariots, and 1 settler half done. Plus 2 workers thanks to Shaka being expansive.

The plan right now is

1) Send the two chariots off to the east and attack any French settlers
2) Plant the third city to the north shore where the copper and wheat are in the 9 box starting square of the city. That's the fastest way to hook it up.
3) Once the settler is built start mass producing chariots for Napolean. Pillage him silly.
4) Build a satisfactory troop of axes that would make the Zulus proud and finish Napolean.

After that, I am not sure but i like the idea of settling one or two more cities and cottage/gold spam. Once we have cats and iron I am willing to find the Japanese.

Take your time with Tokugawa. You'll have plenty of it, you'll need to build an economy first thing after Napolean I think. That should give you plenty of time to get ready for Tokugawa.

I might be a bit more agressive myself. Perhaps attack his cap with the chariots. I've always felt that at 25 a pop, and with two of them being equal to an archer just like two axemen are equal to an archer, chariots are worth just hitting the opponent with. I don't bother waiting until axes can back them up.

Important exceptions to that rule do exist though. So YMMV.

-abs

madscientist said:

It's only 2320 BC and we have 2 cities, 2 chariots, and 1 settler half done. Plus 2 workers thanks to Shaka being expansive.

The plan right now is

1) Send the two chariots off to the east and attack any French settlers

Not a bad idea.

2) Plant the third city to the north shore where the copper and wheat are in the 9 box starting square of the city. That's the fastest way to hook it up.

It's the fastest, but you could have a city that is closer to Paris. It's unlikely that Napoleon will attack first. By making your 3rd city closer to Paris, you
make it easier to patrol the land immediately surrounding Paris, because you will have some units in the new city.


3) Once the settler is built start mass producing chariots for Napolean. Pillage him silly.

You might not need that many chariots. Aside from the 2 chariots used for patrol duty, I'd say that 2 additional chariots (for a total of 4) would be more than enough.

4) Build a satisfactory troop of axes that would make the Zulus proud and finish Napolean.

Axes are great units for conquest.


After that, I am not sure but i like the idea of settling one or two more cities and cottage/gold spam. Once we have cats and iron I am willing to find the Japanese.

Click to expand...

Apart from this, I have another suggestion...settle the 3rd city early, before doing the chariot pillaging--mainly because you want to gain the element of surprise when attacking Napoleon. The 3rd city should claim Copper. After access to Copper is gained, use it to make Impis instead of Chariots.

Here's another voice for the chariot rush. Scoring an AI capital early is always a huge boost to your civ. Actually you should have started the rush right from the get-go. It would have been almost certain to succeed.

Even so, I don't think it's too late. Two chariots per archer, four to six total, should be enough and you already have two. You're aggressive, the city is on flat lands, you have a lookout point and the level is Monarch marathon. What more do you want? Ikhandas to reduce corruption in Paris maybe? Send a unit to the hill to the northwest of Paris to scope out the story.

Incidentally, what was the point of researching archers when you had already found horses in the BFC?

The spoiler is a chariot rush before a settler.