OSG21 - Big Brother

One of the wackier variants developed for Civilization was Big Brother. The idea is that the team "wins" when the chosen "little sibling" wins the game. RefSteel suggested this as a possibility for our next team variant:

"The Power Behind the Throne: The Darloks have no interest in becoming Emperors of the Galaxy; that would just mean painting a gigantic target on their backs. What they need is a figurehead to prop up while they rule from the shadows -- someone easy for them to manipulate, but fierce enough to enforce their draconian policies while always seeming to the rest of the galaxy to be the one "in charge." Fortunately, the Darloks have singled out an emperor who's perrrrrrrrrrrrfect for the job!
Variant rules: We must not give away our plans to the rest of the galaxy; as such, we must abstain if we are ever the Mrrshans' opponent in a vote, and must always appear small and weak: We may never own more than 5 planets (in a medium galaxy), we may not eliminate any race ourselves, and we may never threaten to attack (we must not appear strong enough for our threats to carry weight)."

There are some potential issues, however:

*This variant is HIGHLY map dependent. Basically, we need to be right next to our chosen "brother," and within range of anybody who might strike against them.

*I don't remember how combat over enemy planets works if two fleets from different races show up, so we may not be able to defend our brother's territory directly.

*It is paramount that we get to Allies ASAP, lest our brother declare war and potentially sour relations permanently.

*I honestly don't think that the Darlok's can accomplish this feat with only five planets. Plus, as relations start at uneasy with everybody, we have less control over the inevitable galactic wars.


I agreed to do some play-testing to see how viable the concept was. Well, on my sixth attempt, I hit the perfect map:



We are the Psilons, in white. We have 5 very nice planets (3 size 90, two size 60), in addition to the homeworld, the last of which is about to be colonized. Given that this is Hard, I think this is actually enough. We may have to grab a planet or two to extend our range later on, but we can add the rule that those planets can build nothing useful (dummy ships, probably, or maybe continually streaming pop into a full planet once some defenses are established).

Our little brothers are the Mrrshan, the guys in Purple. They are Ruthless Militarists, but left alone in the corner for awhile, they should avoid being snuffed out too quick. The Yellow flag is Alkari , with their homeworld highlighted by the cursor. The other opponents are the Bulrathi, Meklar, and Klackon. So, let's do this!

OSG21 - Big Brother
Galaxy: Medium
Difficulty: Hard
Race: Psilon
Opponents: Mrrshan, Alkari, Bulrathi, Meklar, Klackon

Variant Rules:
*Our goal is for our puppets, the Mrrshan, to win the Galactic Council.
*We may never own more than the six planets we already have by 2353. If we really feel the need for a planet to extend range later, we might allow one or two more, but those planets must not contribute meaningfully to the empire. They must build dummy ships, or stream pop to full planets. Missile bases are allowed here. PLEASE don't make me come up with all the contingencies needed to formalize this; let me know if you don't get the idea of this rule!
*We must always vote for the Mrrshan in the council, EXCEPT if we are their opponents. Then we must abstain. All other votes must be abstinations as well.
*We may never issue threats.
*We may never eliminate another race on our own.

Roster:
dathon78
RefSteel
Zed-F
????

I'd like to get one or two more recruits for this game. I don't want to run more than 5 for this game, so if we get a lot of interest, we'll split up into separate games. Report on the first turnset to follow

dathon

Because I wasn't planning on this being a formal game, I've played way more than a typical turn. I think we can go straight into 10-turn sets from here on out.

The year is now 2350. We have 4 colonies, about to be 5, and our homeworld. Our homeworld is maxed, and the other planets are developing nicely. On the tech front, we have +10, IIT9, and Rng 4. +20, Class II, and Deep Space Scanners are in the percentages, and we're also researching RW80, Nuclear Engines, and Gatling Lasers (misclick there, should be Hyper V).

The cats are up in the right-hand corner, with their homeworld closest to us. We've been in contact for ~10 years. I established maximum trade with the Ruthless Milatarists first thing, and relations recently hit relaxed. The have access to a tundra world (once they get the tech), and a size 80 at the Ocean to their East, though that world is poor. Their homeworld is 5 parsecs from Hyades, so they must have Range 5. As soon as they move out of that corner, though, they're going to run right into their hated enemies, the Alkari. The birds have scouted that Barren world, as well as the dead to our east, which is a size 50 Rich.

Now, where should we go next? Our priorities have to be different here. I think we need to hold that Barren, and maybe the Dead, uncolonized as long as possible. If we can get an Alliance going early, the cats might be able to use our range to get those worlds. I think we also need a spy very soon to see what early techs they might be missing, to suggest what we might gift them. No espionage please!! Just a hiding spy to get a report. Holes in the kitty tree might also dictate our own tech choices; if they are missing a key tech, we should research it and give it to them. I also think we need to get to Alliance as soon as possible, so some early tech tribute is definitely called for.

Alright, once we have a roster, we'll do the next turns; here is the save to look at until then.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/52773/osg21_2350.zip

dathon

I think I can make time for a SG if noone else can.

Checking in...

Checking in. Should we wait to see if more players are interested, or should I just grab the save and start playing?
Also, a question for dathon in case I am to start playing soon: Have you seen scouts or other ships from any races other than the Mrrshans and Alkari yet? (And if so, whereabouts did they appear)?

Ok, I think we have enough people to play; go ahead and pick up the save, RefSteel. We'll do 10-turn sets. Oh, and as this is an RB event, let's play with some of the exploit list; some of it is going to have to be loosened for this game. As far as I can remember, that includes:

*Baiting
*Ammo ship retreats
*Yo-Yo Tactic
*Spectator Wars
*Threats
*Bribing

Please see this thread for info on these tactics. There's a list near the end of the thread that wraps up the rules nicely. If we think we need more formalization, I guess I can write the rules here, but I'd rather not do that; I'd rather rely on good judgment. Bribing WILL be allowed for this event, but only with the Mrrshan. Everything else we can probably do without.

@RefSteel - No other scouts were seen. I'm guessing there's at least two of the remaining three races in the SW corner, maybe all three, and one possible in the NW.

dathon

Roster:
dathon78 --> Just Played
RefSteel --> UP NOW
Zed-F --> On Deck
AlanSHB

Dathon, you might want to update the first post in that thread to include the final version of the exploit rules, or perhaps make a new thread, just to make it easy for people to find the final version of the rules. You can always reference the original thread if people want to see how we got to that ruleset.

You look set to roll so good luck, but if you want a fifth I can join. I'll follow this strange variant anyway to see how it plays out.

Sargon - take my slot.

Thank you Alan, although I didn't mean to bump anyone off the roster.

@Dathon: I'll be following & ready to play after RefSteel & Zed so take this as a checking-in.

I could clear time, but you have time. I'll happily observe; you shouldn't feel bad about bumping me at all.

dathon78 said:

Ok, I think we have enough people to play; go ahead and pick up the save, RefSteel. We'll do 10-turn sets. Oh, and as this is an RB event, let's play with some of the exploit list; some of it is going to have to be loosened for this game.
(...)
Bribing WILL be allowed for this event, but only with the Mrrshan. Everything else we can probably do without.

Click to expand...

In that case: Got it!
Looking at the Exploits thread, by the way, I think Bribing was just on the "watch list" (i.e. permissible, but be on the lookout for possible abuses, and deal with them as they arise). Naturally, as you say, bribing the Mrrshans is not so much "abusive" as "necessary and intrinsic" to this variant ... and since I never bribe in a normal game anyway, I won't worry about the other races!

Executive Summary: Cat Nap. Helos founded. DSS -> RC3, Shield2 -> PDS, T+20 -> Enhanced Eco, Gats -> NPGs, RW80 -> IIT8, Warp2 -> Warp 3.

The Loooooong version: (since I don't have time to edit it down)
(Inherited Turn) 2350: Since we're at Relaxed, I dial up the Mrrshans and ask for a NAP.

This should allow them to colonize right under our blockades, which is mostly a good thing; we'll just have to pay attention and move our scouts as the new colonies appear (until we reach Alliance). It should also help with annual relations increases (I think). I also up our trade package to 125 per year while I have Shandra on the line, and give her all three of our techs, figuring the sooner she has them, the stronger her empire will be in the critical early stage of the game. (Even the Hydrogen cells help with miniaturization). This brings relations up to Amiable (so far). I send half Rotan's population to Rayden (still leaving Rotan above 1/3 of its max) to help Rayden feed our new colony when it's founded; Rotan is Fertile, so it should grow its people back fast. In the meantime, I set it to help with research. Um. Do tell me if what I did here was completely insane. I hit Next Turn.
IBT: GNN puts us second in population, behind the Meklar. That could mean the bugs and bears are stuck up in the northwest corner while the 'bots have the entire southwest to themselves. Could make things challenging, as the Meklar are dangerous if they get any number of planets to speak of.
2351: No news.
2352: Reduce Planetology spending since it's well into the percentages, splitting it between Construction (for waste cleanup) and Weapons (to bring Gats into the percentages).
IBT: Deep Space Scanner and Shields 2 hit at 11% apiece, and Terra+20 hits at 7%. When it rains, it pours, I guess. I elect to adjust ECO spending manually, and choose:
Robotic Controls 3 over Jammer 2, Battle Computer 3, or going back for the earlier versions of each.
Personal Deflectors over Shield Class 3.
A lot of choices in Planetology:

Enhanced Eco advances the tree, and will go nicely with robotic controls, but I think seriously about going back for Barren, since we'd get it in seconds and it would open up a coreward world to the Cats immediately after we gift it. Controlled Toxic would also be nice, but it's expensive, and if it might be useful to the cats, it won't help us one bit: We'll have all six planets we'll ever get as of....
Now. We colonize Helos, a Terran 90, and GNN informs us that we're the first to six systems. (!) Maybe no need to jumpt to conclusions about the Meklar then, just yet.
2353: Helos should open up zero new worlds for scouting, but as I check to make sure, I spot two unscouted stars within range. Only one can be Orion, so I dispatch some Scout 1s to have a look at them, even building one at Mentar (relocing via Rayden) to arrive more quickly. I also note that the Mrrshans have a small group of Medium Bobcats at their homeworld in the north. Just about everyone starts terraforming, and I send 11 million brains from Rayden down to Helos to get it started. I rearrange research sliders back to the way dathon left them, and hit next turn.
2354: Sliders juggled in response to terraforming progress. Rayden sends 5 million more to Helos. I call up the Mrrshans again to give them our new technology; they've apparently learned Shields 2 on their own, but they gladly take Space Scanner and Terra +20. Relations are now at Calm.
2355: The Mrrshans are sending a fleet, Colship included, up to Poor Ocean Proxima; we don't have a scout in orbit for some reason, though we've scouted the place, but that should be okay since the Mrrshans are about to take it anyway. A final 10 million sent from Rayden to Helos now that the transports from Rotan have arrived. I notice that we have 5 BC in reserve, and start sending it to Helos just to help stand the place up a little faster. More terra-related slider juggling. Weapons is at 4%.
2356: Mentar re-maxes at 120/240. I let it go ahead and research. Slider juggling continues, and Helos gets more reserves since Mentar went a little bit over. The Scout 1 at Rayden is sent west to the unscouted red star since its replacement will arrive next turn. The Mrrshans are now at Affable, and not at war (probably not in contact) with anyone yet. Since our planets are still developing though, and the cats are sure to declare on the Alkari (or vice-versa) the moment they meet, I don't try for an Alliance yet (I also don't remember if Affable is enough, though I think it is). Construction is at 4%, Weapons at 8%.
IBT: I discover why we had no scouting report for the yellow star between Mrrshan and Alkari space:

To compensate for our lost Scout 1, Gatling Lasers hits. I choose cheap, fighter-worthy NPGs over Hyper-X, F-Bomb, or going back for Hyper-V.
2357: With everyone but Helos fully terraformed, I finish my slider juggling. Construction spending is reduced (to 8%) to feed Propulsion up to the percentages. The cats have another colship fleet bound for Proxima, which may or may not mean it's contested. If so (hopefully not), we may have to get a space superiority fleet over that planet at some point (when we're allied) just to keep the Mrrshans from using up their energy trading it back and forth as a spud.
2358: Still no Mrrshan flag at Proxima, so it's probably contested after all. They're also sending a Colship down to (presumably) Talas, so either they have Controlled Barren ... or it's just a big, expensive scout. Rotan starts factory construction again, as its population is catching up, and Helos receives the remainder of our tiny treasury. I decide to up our trade package with the Mrrshans again (now at 175 BC) and give them Gats (which should help against the Alkari; they'll likely meet each other soon if they haven't already, given the destination of that Colship I mentioned). I fix our waste problems, and reduce Propulsion spending (to 4%) to feed Planetology.
IBT: Nuclear Engines come in, and I take Sublight Drives over going back for Deuterium or Stabilizers.
2359: The Mrrshans have some new ship designs (all necessarily pre-Gat) -- large Leopards, medium Panthers, and small Wolverines. Construction is now at 15%.
IBT: Reduced Waste comes in, and I choose IIT8 over the always-attractive No Other Option technology.
2360: I observe that the cats have finally taken Proxima. For how long, we'll see. I do some veto-able stuff: Letting Mentar handle our research while everyone else builds factories at full steam, and resetting tech spending to the levels at which dathon had them (which is arbitrary, as they may have been set that way largely due to what was in percentages at the time, but I also think it's a good setup for our current techs -- Zed can correct this if I'm crazy).
Suggestions:
We have a couple extra scouts in the north, but not nearly enough (I think) to take advantage of the Mrrshan alliance once it's formed. We should probably fix that soon. We can also probably get an alliance quite soon as well (or immediately, I think, if you want), especially as we just got Warp 2 and RW80 in the last couple turns, and one or both is probably new (and therefore giftable) to the Mrrshans. Uh ... there might be something else, but honestly, Zed needs no suggestions from me!
QUICK EDIT: A couple more heads-ups: There's a Cat Colship heading for the Barren southwest of Orion, due in ~2-3 turns; if we're not allied by then, our Scout may want to get out of its way ... if the Cats have Controlled Barren. I haven't followed up on dathon's suggestion to start Hide spying on them because I figured our six Psilon planets would be out-teching their four kitty planets hands-down for now anyway, and I preferred to put all possible funds into our economy at this stage in the game; Zed or others might want to reverse this decision.
Please let me know which of my choices/actions were completely loony. Also, I've got to go ~immediately, but I'll be happy to answer any questions not already answered in this ridiculously long report when I get back sometime Saturday evening.
The Map:

Okay, see that yellow star between the Mrrshans and Alkari, circled and crossed out in red as part of the word "Orion"? Um, yeah, it's Orion. Don't go there, 'kay? You can also see our Scout 1 in the south, heading toward the as-yet-unexplored red star with an ETA of 2. And yes, it's a combined map with all the data from all three standard maps in one place. I used a combination of PhotoDeluxe and Paint.
The Save:

I’ll let Zed or Dathon critique your play but it looks fine to me; I may have done some things a little differently though not necessarily better.

You need to be in the upper range of Affable for a computer player to consider an Alliance but the relations bar in the save looks just high enough to stand a chance. However getting an Alliance with a Ruthless AI will not be easy and with the current 6 tech gifts looks to have no chance. In theory with a NAP and good relations the Mrrshans could offer us an Alliance but being Ruthless will prevent that happening. We will need another 6 tech gifts to have a fair outside chance of an Alliance which we should eventually achieve. A spy may help identify cheap missing techs we can research quickly and gift to the Mrrshans.

My main concern (other than the Alliance) is the timing and inevitability of the Mrrshan/Alkari conflict. If the Mrrshans have learned Barren and they do colonize Talas that will initiate contact (if not already). Are the Mrrshans ready for war (can they defend Talas at range 5 from Alkari at range 3)? Are we ready? We still do not have range for contact or softening attacks on the Alkari (although we will if they colonize/conquer Talas). Being Big Brother comes with its fair share of responsibility.

[Edit] PS: As regards the tech spending my thoughts are to reduce the proposed Planetology spending a bit in favour of other fields. We will want more cleanup tech before long but we have progressed a fair way through this expensive tech and can more quickly advance cheaper techs in other fields for now.

Good turns RefSteel! I don't have a lot of time this weekend, but a few quick comments, since you asked for them:

*I don't see any problems with using Rotan as a colony feeder. Fertile worlds are good for that, and the border worlds need to be stood up faster anyway, as they will come under attack first.

*Planetology tech is a difficult choice. I definitely wouldn't have gone back, and if I did, it would be for Tundra, not Barren, since there is a Tundra world in Mrrshan space. Both Eco and Toxic have their pros and cons. I probably would have hedged toward Toxic, but Eco is a fine choice as well.

On a side note, we might have to actually skip terraforming tech in this game to stay out of the council running Let's leave those techs alone for now, until we get an idea as to how big the other empires are going to get.

*About researching early techs just for the cats, this might actually be a good thing. Like us, the cats will be able to make better use of advanced techs. However, until we are at Alliance, it's likely they will use those advanced techs on us Keep that in mind with your gifts; until we're at Alliance, don't give them anything that could make them aggressive towards us! Ruthless leaders strike when they have a military advantage.

*There was no scout at the Poor planet W of Mrrshan space, because I pulled it back, precisely so they would colonize it faster While they will do it, the AI is a little more reluctant to head to worlds you have scouts on, particularly if relations are good.

*As for the Mrrshan/Alkari conflict, there's really no way to know if the cats are ready for this without intel on the Alkari. What I do know is we are definitely NOT ready to help if needed. We may want to emphasize some military tech, more than usual for the early game.

I'll try to get a better exploit list up at RB on Monday.

dathon

Thanks for both the compliments and comments!

sargon0 said:

[Edit] PS: As regards the tech spending my thoughts are to reduce the proposed Planetology spending a bit in favour of other fields.

Click to expand...

Good point. I'd want IIT8, RC3, and ECO to all come in reasonably soon ... but also for them to come in that order. Also, dathon's probably right about wanting military tech earlier than usual this game.

dathon78 said:

On a side note, we might have to actually skip terraforming tech in this game to stay out of the council running

Click to expand...

Very much agreed. I'm actually worried that with six large planets and Terra+20, we may be in the council running anyway! (Of course, there are ways around that if necessary....)

There was no scout at the Poor planet W of Mrrshan space, because I pulled it back, precisely so they would colonize it faster

Click to expand...

Aha! And, indeed, it appears to have worked!

As for the Mrrshan/Alkari conflict ... we are definitely NOT ready to help if needed.

Click to expand...

Very true. One thing I neglected to mention in my suggestions/heads-up section, but that you may have inferred: We still have zero military right now -- I haven't even built any bases. I'm not sure how much longer this will be safe.

I see that I am up, I will try to get this today.

Looks like our general long-range plan is proceed as normal (with the 6-CC caveat and scratching the kitties' backs) and wipe everyone else out, allowing the cats to resettle, and leaving behind enough folks to keep the vote alive. I'll see if I can't come up with a short range plan to facilitate this.

Zed-F said:

Looks like our general long-range plan is proceed as normal (with the 6-CC caveat and scratching the kitties' backs) and wipe everyone else out, allowing the cats to resettle, and leaving behind enough folks to keep the vote alive.

Click to expand...

I would say, if possible, it would be best to retain a "nemesis" species with more population than ours, but -- hopefully/eventually, as we clear the way for them -- less than the cats, just to have someone to vote against in the elections. I think that would be more in keeping with the variant theme ... but also, if we reduce all the other races to irrelevancy, our ruthless friends might wipe them all out too soon to achieve (the AI equivalent of) a Conquest victory. Of course, we'll have to see what's actually possible as the game develops....

@Zed ... well, not really. As I understand it, the point was to have the cats voted in, with us NOT being a contender in the election. Now granted, that may become impossible depending on how relations fall out, but I believe that was the original goal.

dathon

I'd add as a variant clearing the guardian to make the world safe for cats to play.

Given the amount of restructuring of the galaxy you're likely to engage in, you'll probably have time.