Smokin' peace pipe with Indians [BtS monarch walk]

Hi there! I know a thing or two about how to play civ but I find myself just clicking on the green dot way way too much.

Anywho, the settings are:
game: BtS (updated)
difficulty: Monarch
map type: shuffle
map size: standard
climate: random (temperate)
sea level: random (medium)
speed: epic
Aggressive AI on

Leader: Sitting Bull
Philosophical: +100% GP birth rate, +100% hammers for Universities
Protective: City garrison I, Drill I for Archery & Gunpowder units, +100% hammers for Walls and Castle
UU: Dog Soldier (Axeman ST 4, +100% against Melee units, doesn't need Copper)
UB: Totem pole (replaces Monument, +3 EXP for Archery units)

We're aiming for cultural victory here.

I've never played with Sitting Bull so I'm unsure which beeline to take first: should I take the mega-munchkin Archers enhanced with Totem poles or should I go for Dog Soldiers (I don't even need copper wired!).

I propably should go for Oracle, but CoL or Theology? Pyramids is a must isn't it?



I really dislike the starting spot since we got no food here. I think we should move warrior E or SE or NE, right? If we don't find food there we should move Settler 1W and re-evaluate (maybe settling on Horses/Copper/Iron). I dunno... Help me out!

OK so I'll listen for your advice, play for a 20-30 turns and post again. I feel this can really improve my game since I'm normally just autopiloting my way through.

edit: I'm having problems with those attachments... bear with me.

Here's the save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/125744/Indians.CivBeyondSwordSave

There's likely some food 1S 1SW of the settler. AT LEAST a grassland cow, I'd think.

Ya but it might be just grasslands/H/C/I. I'm thinking Warrior SE so we can get to see more tile next to that river and investigate that grasslands tile possibly later on.

On a bigger scale: what should I research first? We start out with F/A, and naturally we have to tech the essentials (if there's a cow we need AH etc..) even then, if H->AH viable or should we just go AH straight away?

Warrior SE, probably settle in place.

You're not industrious but hopefully there is stone and/or marble around.

I would be inclined to chop, chop, chop an early empire. Dogs, workers, settlers should be all you need. Rex to 9 cities (that's enough for cultural given your settings, right?) then focus on infrastructure. You would need a plan for some religions though. If you could get your first gp to be a prophet, second to be a gs, and if you were first to col (oracle?) that would net you 3 religions, which should be plenty.

If I get a prophet which religion would it net me? Islam? I'll try to Oracle CoL, that should be relatively easy, but rexing to 9 at the same time is beyond me. Taoism should be easy. OK, I'll try to settle in place and hopefully SW S is a food bonus.

A prophet can bulb theology assuming you have monotheism. This gives you christianity. The oracle does interfere with rexing, but if you feel it will be necessary for a religion, it would be worth it I guess. If you meet neighbours who have founded buddhism and/or hinduism then I would just rex instead probably while planning on getting tao and christianity.

Ok, I played 20 turns.



So we got a plains/hill hopefully indicating for Copper or Iron, and a Rice field w/o irrigation. Not terrible but 5F would've been a lot better. Now we can't use slavery efficiently and we have a 5F deficit if we work all those hills so not much room for cottages either.

I move my warrior SE again revealing yet another hut. I pop it getting a whopping 109 gold.

3800 BC I pop the other hut. Free tech: mining. Could've been worse I guess. We encounter Cyrus, that should be good news for my rexing.

Later on I meet Peter.



Could've done a lot better job scouting-wise but I opted to pop some huts. We found stone which is excellent news, I might be able to get Pyramids and Oracle. Worker will be ready in 3 turns. I think I need to move my warrior back to Stone and scout that completely so I can settle my second city soon. After BW I think that Mysticism -> Masonry -> Wheel is the way to go. I might even get Judaism if I skip the wheel but it will be super hard to rex/oracle/pyramids/monoteism at the same time. As for building order I'm thinking Warrior until Pop 2 followed by a chopped'n'slaved settler. I'm really hoping to find some sea food so I can delay AH, but I guess I gotta go Mysticism->AH->Masonry if I don't.

My first attempt at dot mapping so don't laugh
I would go blue, red, then purple
Having some stone and cattle in a BFC is handy early, you want to have that city with bannanas and rice on the same BFC, plus that gives you a coastal city. The purple one is in an area with a whole bunch of floodplains, there may be a better spot in than that in that general vicinity.

I think what you do early on depends on the type of neighbors you meet and where. For instance, if you have Montezuma or Shaka only a few tiles away it would be Bee Line to BW and get your Dog Warriors ready. If you've got a lot of space, and peaceful leaders surrounding you, you may have more options.

For the blue X: it's wise to avoid settling on flood plains to gain extra food. Also, it's a bit hard to dotmap this tiny bit of land... probably should explore a bit more.

Trv016 said:

For the blue X: it's wise to avoid settling on flood plains to gain extra food. Also, it's a bit hard to dotmap this tiny bit of land... probably should explore a bit more.

Click to expand...

You must mean purple X =P. But about blue X, I think it should be moved 1W (assuming no seafood is lost) to get same resources+silk, more land squares and the stone in the first ring.

it's a bit hard to dotmap this tiny bit of land... probably should explore a bit more.

Click to expand...

Agreed. You need to expose more land if you want to dotmap. Also, it looks like red X is in the 2nd ring of the capital city. If so you won't be able to get bananas and rice in the same city. Your other X's don't look so hot either, but it's hard to tell without seeing more of the map. (For example, purple burns a flood-plain needlessly, and doesn't get the cows. There's probably a better spot in the fog. Spices shouldn't be a priority this early, especially since you already have them in the capital.)

You can't settle red afaik because it overlaps the inner part of the capital bfc.

Finish scouting out the stone location. You have a strong production capital. Farms and mines ftw. It can pump wonders and workers/settlers. Your other cities will have to focus on paying the bills and one other production city should pump troops.

Get the stone hooked up and pyramids should be yours. At that point you can go for an obsolete-style capital wonders/settled gp under representation. Rex and try and stay afloat economically. If you can get your 9 cities then you can turtle up and start planning how you will pursue your victory.

Oh I forgot to add the last save if anyone's interested. It's here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/125744/Indians_BC-3500.CivBeyondSwordSave

I scouted some more:



Fish AND Clams... Not bad at all! I'll most likely settle my second city there.

After 40 turns my surroundings look like this:



My warrior got attacked by lions and he's regaining his strength in a forest (southern silk square). Settler is underway. I'm thinking warrior till pop 2 and second worker next / work boat -> totem pole in 2nd city. Masonry and Wheel next. Sounds sound, right (lol @ english)?

It really seems like my fairly crappy start has been compensated with über 2nd city location + huts & neighbors.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/125744/Indians_BC-3000.CivBeyondSwordSave

Your start looks fine, just chop, chop, chop, chop your way to an empire + stone-based wonders.

So I find the other city BC 2825. I start producing a work boat with unquarried stone since the sooner I get it the better. Is that the "right" move? I switch to Dog soldier after my first warrior.

BC 2700 I meet Mao. Work boat finishes, I start building SH since I got my Stone quarried too. Worker sits idle on top of the quarry for 2 turns waiting for wheel to complete. I slave my other worker and order it to move to the quarry also. I need that stone hooked up bad.



Turn 63 I come across a decision. I could pursue Judaism going for the Poly->Mono, I could ensure I get the Oracle by going Meditation->Priesthood. I could also go for Poly->PH, the advantage in this is I get to literature first easily. I think I don't need to get GL though since we're pursuing a cultural victory so that tech line is not so good. I could also tech Pottery next but I don't see the sense in that. I do have 77 Gold left so I could tech 100% with 3 cities a while if I do pursue Judaism. I still have to do some scouting before I can sketch some new city locations.

So should I play it safe and go for the Oracle or should I risk it and go for Judaism?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/125744/Indians_BC-2425.CivBeyondSwordSave

I decided to go for Poly->PH since my first GP will be Prophet most likely since I build the Stonehenge first. That way I can research Mono and sling Christianity like futurehermit suggested.

I start to build my capital into a wonderspam machine. I don't want to whip there since my growth w/o granary is so slow. That means that Poverty Point will be whipping Settlers and Workers for now which slows my rexing a lot. I got to get some good city for commerce or else I might not be able to keep up.



I started to spam straight away.



After SH I produced another Workboat and started working on a settler. Finished GW and had to finish that Dog soldier in capital (Barb Archers are roaming so settlers can't travel safely with warriors any more). Then I started building Oracle. Got to dotmapping which is always fun.



pink = Mao Zedong
red = Peter
cyan = Cyrus
brown = Indians!!!

dark yellow = Commerce cities, need IW
red city = prolly my next city unfortunately, I need that Rice and prolly have to war Cyrus because of it
yellow = commerce city
blue & dark blue = sucky cities. Prolly going to build statues in southernest city.

What do you think?



http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/125744/Indians_BC-1775.CivBeyondSwordSave

futurehermit said:

Get the stone hooked up and pyramids should be yours. At that point you can go for an obsolete-style capital wonders/settled gp under representation. Rex and try and stay afloat economically. If you can get your 9 cities then you can turtle up and start planning how you will pursue your victory.

Click to expand...

Shouldn't I focus on getting Great Artists? I started to think that wonder spam + settling prolly won't work well here.

I'll be interested to see how this wonderspamming goes. I've seen some of Obsolete's walkthroughs where he does that. I have a hard time when I try to spam wonders, invariably I get barbarian trouble and/or another civ that finishes the wonder first. You've really gotta be on the ball with the techs to get to build those wonders first. It looks like you can really bring in a variety of resources to your empire just by Rexing around you.

Those blue cities are really not that bad. Both will make good production cities (Moai Statues in the dark blue city).

Also, you're probably going to want that whale resource for extra happiness with markets (with silk and whale, you'll get 2 with markets, possible more if you can obtain ivory and furs).

Another good production city would be 1NE 1N of the oasis (I can't tell, is that a desert or plains hill that I've specified?). It will be pretty mediocre until biology, though.

Trv016 said:

Those blue cities are really not that bad. Both will make good production cities (Moai Statues in the dark blue city).

Also, you're probably going to want that whale resource for extra happiness with markets (with silk and whale, you'll get 2 with markets, possible more if you can obtain ivory and furs).

Another good production city would be 1NE 1N of the oasis (I can't tell, is that a desert or plains hill that I've specified?). It will be pretty mediocre until biology, though.

Click to expand...

I agree. Only that Bananas, Wine + Cow city is pretty useless. Ya but Whaling boats need Optics and it's not on my tech line so it's not on my near-future rexing plans. That 1NE 1N of oasis is almost decent. The plus side of settling there is that I wouldn't have to fight over the rice fields with Cyrus. I think that I should settle there later.

I think I'm going to beeline to IW, rex aggressively to jungle (Gems <3<3<3) and leave the red city to Cyrus (I can always trade for Dye).

I will try to get Cyrus and Peter convert to Confucianism (no one has found a religion so far in this continent) and try to convert Mao to Christianity. Common enemy unites...

As for Wonder spamming I think that it can carry on as a secondary object after Pyramids.