Wrath of the Ten Thousand Ninjas (Challenge Game)

So I'm not sure if this has been done before, but the idea behind this game is to play using Spies as the main source of my income and technology research. Here are the rules I've given myself:

1. Obviously since we are dealing with Ninjas, my Civilization has to be Japan.

2. I intend to avoid waging full-on war; basically I have to play defensively (minus using the Spies).

3. Any type of Victory is acceptable, so long as Spies were an important factor in obtaining said victory (such as sabotaging a spaceship construction, or spreading culture to nearby cities in order to win Dominance, etc.).

4. Once the Spy slider is available, it goes to 100% and stays there the rest of the game, with one exception: I run out of gold and leaving it at 100% would put me in the red. If that happens, I'll leave it as high as it can possibly go with me still in the green or black.

Otherwise, I've decided to use the Hemispheres map setting, with 10 Civs, on Prince difficulty. This is my first Challenge game, so please be gentle (and feel free to post suggestions for how I could make it better).

And a few final notes: I realize shinobi is a better term, I'm using ninja because it's more popular, get over it.

And as for our noble leader, it can only be Hattori Hanzo (sorry Jiraiya fans). It's my game, I pick the leader of the ninja army.

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In the distance you hear the loud beats of the taiko drum and hear the sweet humming of the biwa, all heralding an auspicious occasion: the ninjas have found their home.

So here's my start screen:



Forest will be nice for chopping an early Great Wall (you didn't think I'd not grab a Great Spy right away?), but otherwise it seems pretty general with two food resources, a bit of river, and some hills. I think I will just found the city right where the settler is, but obviously before that happens I have a few things to decide: Where to move that Warrior, and what Tech to get started on. I think for the first ten turns I'll hook up with the Corn and then work on getting Masonry and Bronze Working so I can fast chop the Great Wall, and hopefully have enough time to get another city along the way.

As for what to build first, I almost always start with a worker since I like hooking up with some food sooner rather than latter and I will need one for chopping anyways, but if you all have other ideas I'll hear them.

Anyways, post your thoughts. I'll do the first ten turns tomorrow night.

And oh, here's the game save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95430/Hattori_Hanzo_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

Sounds fun, but ninjas are Chinese, not Japanese. You're probably thinking of the Japanese samurai.

Ninjas are not Chinese.....

It's a tough challenge. I know as I have tried twice and failed (check my 2 RPC's Peter Spy Extraordinaire to learn what not to do.). I do have some advice

1) Consider upping the ep slider in segements so you tech somewhat normally.
2) Try for the great wall to get an early Great Spy. Settle that Spy. The second Spy should build the scottland yard into that city.
3) Make sure you shceck the ep screen to determine which city is cheapest.
4) Foreign cities with your state religion get you a discount.
5) Keep the spy stationed in teh foreign city for 5 turns to maximize your return.
60 If you plan to war as defense I suggest you claim as much land as you can at the beginning.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the advice Mad Scientist. Especially helpful that you pointed out that religion effects Spying - that is something which I did not know, and I always like learning new tricks for Civ IV. Already, then, I'll have to rethink my strategy and maybe try to found a religion; seeing as how I am not near a coast though it'll be tough spreading the earlier ones...this has given me much to think about.

Cleverbeans said:

Ninjas are not Chinese.....

Click to expand...

Argh! You're right, I've been stupid lately .

Trade routes also decrease the EP cost I think .

Here's a link for a FULL EE game, they teched to Alphabet, and workers tech's only in ancient period, then STOLE ALL OTHER TECHS...Waged war, eliminated civ's etc...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=235474&referrerid=74511

is the link to the Sucession game, I got this from a post by another respondent to madSceintists attempt with Peter in the spy economy game

A very entertaining and informative read..

I know that I was going to wait until tonight, but I had some free time and I figured that the first ten turns were pretty straightforward.

Fortunately, I managed to get some really good advice from reading about other attempts at Espionage Economy games (although here I was thinking I was being all clever and original ), and have a good idea about how I plan to tech. Basically, I am going to follow my original plan and rush to Masonry and Bronze Working. Pretty much my entire early strategy depends on getting a Great Spy or two, so I want that Great Wall ASAP.

After I reach those key techs, I think I'll try to Oracle slingshot my way to Code of Laws for Courthouses. Maybe I'll even get lucky and manage to spread Confucianism to my neighbors for the Espionage bonus that sharing a faith provides. Assuming, of course, someone doesn't beat me to it.

After that the obvious choice would be to tech to Alphabet, but I might hold back a bit and grab a few other techs, like Animal Husbandry to hook up with the Pork, and, if I have potentially hostile neighbors, Archery (a situational tech I often skip...but it is one that if you need it, you really really need it). So there are my tech plans for the near future.

As for long-term strategy, I've decided against Cottages in favor of Great People (after all, I mean to rely on Spies, not improvements). The challenge, of course, will be to maximize the Great Spies that I produce (especially since after Great Wall there won't be another Spy-generating Wonder until late game). My plan is to avoid making more than one of the other Great Person wonders in my GP city, so that the Great Wall and Courthouse combination leaves the chances for a Great Spy on the top. We'll see how that turns out. Obvious Civics to reach for with this system would be Caste System (conveniently available from Code of Laws) and Pacifism. I have a feeling that the Protective trait will come in handy on this challenge.
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And now, here's what happened the last ten turns.

I decided to send my Warrior towards that goodie hut. Unfortunately, it was nothing special, something like 48 gold. However, this did reveal a grasslands tile full of gemstones in the fat cross of my planned capital site. Now my decision to tech to Bronze Working seemed eerily prescient.

Now convinced I had a good site for my first city, I founded the mighty ninja headquarters of Koga:



The Koga clan is hungry! I set my research to Agriculture to hook up with the Corn, and start building a Worker. I realize that it is somewhat controversial to immediately build a Worker without first growing your city, but I want that farm built quickly so that I can use my Worker for forest chopping once Masonry comes around. The spy game could potentially be lost in the first few turns if I let someone else grab the Great Wall!

Not much else to do with Koga founded, so I decide to scout out that river to my West. I chose West because I know that there's potential for my second Ninja Village with the good water source, and to the South looks to be nothing but jungle and plantation resources. Not much else happened by the end of the round, besides another goodie hut that gave me a pittance of gold, but my initial scouting did reveal a nearby spot for my second city. Unfortunately, it also revealed that I am likely penned in with jungle to the south and desert to the north; Iron Working might be worth pursuing if I have the time before hitting Alphabet. Anyways, here's the dot map with a fat cross lined up (cut off the southern portion of the map since it looks to be all jungle and won't really be worth my time until I get Calendar as is):



I finish this round with the discovery of Agriculture and begin researching Mining:



And finally, here is the world map:



I think that I might take twenty turns for the next round, at least until stuff starts to happen, early game being sort of slow as it is.


And here's the save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95430/Hattori_Hanzo_BC-3600.CivBeyondSwordSave

Since things are a bit quiet, I figured I'd go do some more scouting so that I could put a dotmap up, but if you scroll up to the top screen you'll notice I'm having technical difficulties. Seems that since I was lazy and didn't rename my screenshots (but DID move them to a new folder) before uploading I've confused the system. I'm working on it; hopefully I'll find a way for the Japanese and the English to coexist. In the meantime, here's a topic for you to fret over: the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, Roman, nor an Empire. Talk amongst yourselves.

If you hold the shift key at the same time as printscreen it gives the option of naming the screenshot with a four digit number suffix.

Alright, problem solved, world saved, on with the show!

To review, last round I founded Koga and started on a Worker. Now this round, that worker has got some serious chopping to do!



You'll also notice that someone has discovered Buddhism, but that's no big deal really as I'll probably get CoL first with all these trees to chop.

Continuing, for the next few turns I mostly wandered around the map checking for decent city cites as I researched Mining and then Bronze Working. That is, until I met my first neighbor:



I'm nervous about Napoleon; I never get along well with the French, and look how close he is to me! On top of Napoleon wanting to spoon with me to the West, I've got what can only be described as the Heart of Darkness to the South. Good times:



The silver lining is that I seem to be on a populated continent, so techs should be easy to come by...and best of all none of them seem to have founded a religion yet, so if I manage the CoL slingshot I'll have some great religious bonuses with my neighbors. In theory. Anyways, here's the rest of the clowns:



I'll probably target Darius for technology theft out of the three. And of course don't forget:



Poor ET has to wait a few thousand years to phone home it seems.

Well, not great neighbors, but besides Napoleon they shouldn't be too hard to handle.

Moving on, something nice happened :



And shortly afterwards:


With Bronze Working I was able to get my Worker to start mining some of Koga's nearby hills; hopefully I timed it properly and the 20 hammers appear just as I start on The Great Wall. I also managed to secure Masonry by turn 35, and decided to call it there for now.

Here's the World map:


And here's a dotmap:



Just like I said, south of me is all dysentery and piranhas, and it already feels like me and Napoleon are getting too cozy. So for now I'm thinking of cutting Napoleon off from further spreading towards me by trying to settle in area I and trying to finish off The Great Wall ASAP. After that I've got my eyes on CoL; let's hope I can pull it all off without Napoleon freaking out about close borders.

I thin city I should be moved closer to your capital.

City II should go more west and north. You want to block Napolean off with 2 cities and force him into the southern jungl.

City III should not be 1 tile off the coast, move it 1E.

Nice start especially if you can blcok off all those floodplains.

A suggestion for posting a game (you are running 2 different ones which is OK), especially a challenge where you are looking for feedback. Be patient, alot of people do not monitor the site all day/everyday. Post 1 round a day and look for some feedback. You'll play a better game, find more enjoyment, and get more foodback. My RPCs are usually updated once a day or twon unless near the end where I will accelerate it sometimes. Sis and his ALC waits alot longer between rounds than I do. Just a suggestion.

Thanks for the advice, both here and in my other challenge game - yeah I'll admit it, I need to cool my jets and give people a chance to respond, haha. Games just sort of exciting with an audience so it's hard to hold back on that next turn. I'll work on it.

So far as your ideas on the city positions, spot on! It is amazing how easy it is miss good areas; all those changes basically get me more production, a decent port city, and a good food city for possible Great Spies, all while completely cutting off Napoleon from my side of the continent. Glad for the feedback!

I agree about moving Site III 1E.

I would also move Site I 1E to avoid cultural pressure with Gilgamesh.

Edit: Sorry, that's Napoleon, not Gilgamesh.

Ultimate_Waffle said:

Sounds fun, but ninjas are Chinese, not Japanese. You're probably thinking of the Japanese samurai.

Click to expand...

Ninjas are most definitely Japanese

/cast Forum Necromancy

Alright, sorry for the lack of updates, just sort of ended up focusing more on my moonshot challenge and sadly let this one get neglected.

Anyways, I've been thinking, and the restrictions are a bit too narrow for an exciting game; all that I'll end up doing is trying to rush buy the space race while I've spent the rest of the game pumping out spies. No one really wants to see that, and I especially don't want to play that, so I think a few changes are in order for this challenge.

1. The slider rule still remains in effect, with one exception - trying to win the rush to Communism. Basically, if I find myself close to Communism and the free Great Spy is up for grabs, I'll adjust the slider.

2. We can build armies and wage wars; I think by leaving the victory conditions a bit more open we can expect a bit more exciting a game. Besides, ninjas were basically the samurai's shadows, so you can't really have one without the other, right?

Anyways, I'll start updating this one fairly soon; by the looks of it my moonshot game is wrapping up to a close. So for now, just post your thoughts on these changes and feel free to make suggestions.

well a 100% espionage slider all the game after alphabet would be really cool... and i second going to war - spying shouldn't prevent war, it should lead to easy ones

and as for terminology, i don't know if 'kanja' is not better suited to the role your spies will be performing (although yes, the ninja has all of the coolness factor)

sarkun said:

well a 100% espionage slider all the game after alphabet would be really cool... and i second going to war - spying shouldn't prevent war, it should lead to easy ones

and as for terminology, i don't know if 'kanja' is not better suited to the role your spies will be performing (although yes, the ninja has all of the coolness factor)

Click to expand...

I've taken a few years of Japanese, but I'm a bit rusty and the term "kanja" eludes me...would that be a government-sanctioned spy as opposed to a mercenary-type one?

"kanja" literally means "spy", strangely the 1st kanji character means "interval" or "space" (the 2nd means a type of person), so it is kind of like an "in between person". Go figure - maybe a native Japanese speaker can explain the etymology (語&#28304.

忍者 (ninja) OTOH was more of an 暗殺者 (assassin).