NEVER Build Walls!

jkay · Feb 17, 2008

Nopeola. No walls! Nyet. That's because you can spend the shields on units instead. You can use those units to discourage attackers, beat back attacks more effectively, and go on the attack.

Meanwhile, because all civs expand, at least at the beginning, you end up having to build walls in over half the cities to be effective. And in the part of the game where they most matter, walls are much more expensive than units. And you can't use them when you go on offense, which you need to do to win a war. Historically, the biggest walls were failures.

Even for places like Istanbul, I'd rather spend the effort on naval units or armies than walls. You don't need no stinking wall if both sides of it are your lake.

When I stopped building them, back in civ2, my games went much better.

qwertz · Feb 17, 2008

the only usefull wall is the great one

arstal · Feb 17, 2008

THe one case where Walls are good is if there's a large army defending a town, and a larger army attacking it. Then it might be useful. Definitely a rush-build in one turn thing to do though.

Refar · Feb 17, 2008

Not exactly a "Strategy Article" :lol:

When clicking the thread, i expected sometihng more elborate - like some kind of info/machanic i have missed, to justify the "NEVER" in capitals...

I usually skip walls myself - i think most people do, btw.

But there are also games, where those help... Like for example when beeing Protective with Stone, where Walls will come dirt-cheap. Also otherwise - sometimes one more unit - even if beeing cheaper than the walls is not enought - while a boost the the units you already have, might actually help...
Also walls will often make the AI bombard, instead of attacking right away, and so buying you time, to bring in more/better troops to deal with the enemy stack with low casualties...

Oh and of course Walls are also prereq for Castle - which is not my favourite as well, but can still be of use sometimes...

CivDude86 · Feb 17, 2008

Walls don't cost maintence so they can fend off would be attackers without you going bankrupt. And it will take a catapult a long time to bombard down walls buying plenty of time to reinforce if they do catch you with your pants down.

Wolfshanze · Feb 17, 2008

Walls are a time buyer on defense... it's also a pre-req for castles which provide free espionage and culture, along with the defensive bonuses.

NintendoTogepi · Feb 17, 2008

Walls look ugly, so I never build them

bestbrian · Feb 17, 2008

I like walls and castles for border cities and, especially "citadel cities" that I use as glorified culture producing forts at strategic locations. I also believe that walls are included in the power graph, which may help the deter the AI from dowing you.

TheMeInTeam · Feb 17, 2008

I rarely find occasion to use them, but if it's before gunpowder they can be whipped out fast enough, and the % bonus is way more effective than 1 unit (plus you can overflow some into a unit). Border cities and choke points only, unless you're shooting for castles...which since I only have warlords is never.

jkay · Feb 18, 2008

Yeah, I guess if you can whip a wall into a city that already has many defenders, and definitely has attackers coming, I can see it in that special circumstance.

CivDude86 wrote:
And it will take a catapult a long time to bombard down walls buying plenty of time to reinforce if they do catch you with your pants down.

IF they do bombard you first. *I* don't waste time with with bombardment because it's way too slow. That raises the interesting question - does the AI? I sure wouldn't know....

bestbrian noted:
also believe that walls are included in the power graph, which may help the deter the AI from dowing you.

Yeah, but so are the cheaper units. It's true that the wall's cheaper to maintain in civ4, but it doesn't cost much to keep a reasonable defence force. By just keeping 2-3 units on edges, at most 1/city elsewhere, and big stacks in the centers of things and in theaters, I've never had trouble conquering or dominating the world with the smallest per-capita armies, and thus lower per-capita defence costs than my neighbors.

vale · Feb 18, 2008

Building walls in certain ways can also be used to generate a large influx of cash early in the game if you are Protective and have stone.

r_rolo1 · Feb 18, 2008

Walls ( and Castles ) add soldiers to the power graph... in fact they are a better investement of hammers in that regard than some units.... and they don't pay maintenance

Frostyboy · Feb 20, 2008

As a prerequisite for Castle, and with access to stone/ being Protective (or both), they're OK. But seldom I see the effectiveness of them. Can be OK to rush them before a huge attack though.

flamesweet · Feb 21, 2008

There are times when you should build walls.
Les say that you are playing a leder that gets his UU only in late game (I go to ar when i get my UU because then I can really kick ass) and beside you, you have Montezonma that has a stong and very early UU thatcan kick your ass if he ge angrey.
I think in that case, you should at least concide building walls.

P.S.
Agian: The best wall is the great one.

Wlauzon · Feb 22, 2008

Walls alone are not so great.

But the point is, they are the precursor to castles which not only give some defense but some pretty decent bonuses in other area, such as trade - and those bonuses don't expire.

The Snug · Feb 25, 2008

Hey Wolf, I have to agree with you here.

The Castles also give you that extra trade route.

I really like the idea of castles, but in my games, they obsolete too fast. Almost by the time I build them, they're obsolete. I guess Engineering is too low on my priorities.

The other thing about walls is they're awfully cheap compared to other buildings. They don't take that many hammers. It allows for less units to defend (at a higher winning percentage), for a longer period of time, which allows these fewer units to hog all of the xp's and get some fat promotions.

Wejer · Feb 25, 2008

You need walls for Spanish Citadels. Citadels give +5 xp to Siege Units, which ain't too shabby. When I play as Spanish I definately build them if I have access to Stone.

Light-Giver · Feb 25, 2008

build a wall in a city that is being attacked and already has 2-3 or more archers defending it, slave the wall too, the 50% defence bonuse on a just founded city will give 2 archers the power of 3 archers. so if you have more say like 10 archers, building 1 wall (equivlent of 5 archers) vr. 1 archer in a turn, no contest. i say archers cause in a city their defence value is 4.5 and can city defence upgrade so their the best early defenders.

Brian Boru · Feb 25, 2008

Wejer said:
You need walls for Spanish Citadels. Citadels give +5 xp to Siege Units, which ain't too shabby. When I play as Spanish I definately build them if I have access to Stone.

I always build at least one Citadel as Spain, and set it on constant siege production. If you can postpone Economics until after Railroad, all the better--plus 5 on Machine Gun is nice.

Find a friendly Barb city to play with for a couple of rounds, and you can be upgrading to CR3 Cannon or Artillery later.

bestbrian · Feb 26, 2008

Thanks for the tip; I never thought about the benefit to MGs.

Wait a minute, don't citadels obsolete with GP?

NEVER Build Walls!

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