Noble-level warmongering: Julius Caesar

Some months ago I started a project of learning to warmonger, at the Noble level where I'm still not very skilled. What with the 3.13 patch, and changing machines, those games are gone, so I'm starting over.

As before, I'm starting with Julius Caesar, because his UU is said to overpower everything else in his era, making the first step from builder to warmonger a little easier. I did learn one critical lesson in my last partial attempt: make a raider stack to take out strategic resources, not just a city-killer Stack of Doom. Edit: Later in the thread, there's a recommendation that the tech path for Rome (either leader) should be BW > IW > wheel > worker techs, unlike many other leaders for which worker techs come before BW.

This game is BtS, Pangaea, low water level, epic speed, no other special options set (except Lock Modified Assets). I use the HOF mod because I like the interface a lot better -- those warnings that a city is about to go unhealthy or unhappy are really valuable! I intended to add one more AI because of the low water level, but apparently I goofed, so there are 4. If anyone else wants to try it, you can be assured that I played it far enough to know there's iron near enough to the capital that you could reasonably expect to link it up in reasonable time.

Here is the start position:

My thinking at the time was: Stone in the BFC will make going for the Great Wall (for the spying) and Pyramids (for Police State) feasible. Corn and a FP in the BFC look like plenty of food -- so why is the game telling me to move? I like it where I am!

Next is the post from when I found the iron.

Edit: Attachment deleted.

It's weird, but I would move onto the hill to get more hills in the BFC and claim the pig. To get iron, you want hills, as they're more common in the hills than on grass land or desert. Losing coastal access is not such a big deal on a Pangaea. Also, I already see a flaw in your thinking...

Stone in the BFC will make going for the Great Wall (for the spying) and Pyramids (for Police State) feasible

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When Warmongering, you don't build wonders; you take them using the axemen (or Praets) you built instead of the wonder.

Just in case anyone else wants to try the same game, I'm putting comments and screenshots in spoiler tags. If in a little while there are no takers, I'll stop.

Hackapell said:

When Warmongering, you don't build wonders; you take them using the axemen (or Praets) you built instead of the wonder.

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Sigh. You're right -- I keep hearing that advice but it doesn't sink in. Builder mindset. Fortunately by the time I found the iron I hadn't started any wonders yet.

I get the idea for Pyramids, but might Great Wall be different? Stop worrying about barbs? Better GG production in my new territory as I conquer and the opponents try to retake?

Antium should have been 2S, but it doesn't look like you knew the location of iron

What was your tech path, As I see 4 warriors and 2 cities. At most, you need one warrior per city until you find out whether or not you have copper or horses. If you have neither, you go for archers.

The tech path for Rome should always be the same: BW-->IW-->Wheel-->any necessary worker techs.

I would settle 3E of rome seeing your current set up of cities.
Let that city work the pig and the iron and some hills for production, also mine the south hills of rome for nice production (while chopping praetorians).

I would go for Uruk first. It is closests and not on a hill, so the praets should be able to beat their archers. Have a stack of about 6-8 praets. Promote 1 medic, 1 vs melee (or formation, depends on unit encounters) and the rest city raider I II III.

Chop the worker in antium and slave an obelisk (which you should have done first). You might aswell slave the settler in rome and start building a worker next with the extra slaving hammers. Basically you have 3 improved tiles in rome. The most effective to build stuff is to have rome at size 3.

When you hit the iron, chop praetorians. (but build barracks first offcourse)

dalamb said:

Sigh. You're right -- I keep hearing that advice but it doesn't sink in. Builder mindset. Fortunately by the time I found the iron I hadn't started any wonders yet.

I get the idea for Pyramids, but might Great Wall be different? Stop worrying about barbs? Better GG production in my new territory as I conquer and the opponents try to retake?

Click to expand...

Actually, stonehenge would be very cheap and very powerful to get culture in newly taken cities.

I agree with TeraHammer; you are going on offense. While a GSpy might be useful, when you destroy a civilization, you lose all of the EPs you've accumulated against that civ. Culture lets those conquered cities grow quickly to their full potential.

Hackapell said:

Antium should have been 2S, but it doesn't look like you knew the location of iron

Click to expand...

I did settle before iron, because I failed to realize what you said later, that BW > IW was the better tech path. The location was for the gold (which 2S would also have done) but also to get the FP for food along with the pigs.

Hackapell said:

What was your tech path, As I see 4 warriors and 2 cities. At most, you need one warrior per city until ..

Click to expand...

Preparation for the next 2 cities. I guess I could have done without one of the warriors, but I'm fairly sure the 3rd was OK because of the about-to-be-finished settler for the iron city. It is also possible I built the 4th warrior because the original was still exploring, but as you can see the explorer was home before the 2nd settler was finished.

Tech path was Ag > Masonry > Wheel > BW > IW -- worker techs first instead of last. Mea culpa.

Perhaps you should read the early rush article written by Sisiutil; It's quite comprehensive and helpful and turned me into a solid warmongerer

I did, but I forget fast, so I should re-read.
Edit: I also forget that I forget fast, which is probably why I didn't reread in preparation for this game.

Stop building settlers and start building praets. Take out Catherine and Gilga asap. Yes, Gilgamesh is protective, but he's a huge pain in the ass. He'll take all your land with culture if he doesn't do it with troops first.