D.N. Pacem
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
- Messages
- 76
I started playing Civ III on GameTap several months ago, and thanks largely to help from the War Academy, I have several Emperor wins under my belt. I tried Civ IV, but I didn’t relish the idea of gaining power by building missionaries to spread some doctrine over the map. The problems this has caused in our current world makes it an especially unsavory gaming activity for me.
I realized, though, that I was being hypocritical. There are several things I was doing in my Civ III games that I would never do in real life – acts as horrible as ethnic cleansing and owning and selling slaves to comparably lesser evils such as whaling and ivory dealing. I wondered if I could cut such things out and still have any success.
I’ve played a few games this way, and now, fresh off a skin-of-my-teeth Monarch win, I thought I’d share some rules and tips for building an empire of which you and your conscience can both be proud.
(Note: While GameTap only has PTW, I believe everything I’ve written here applies to all versions of Civ III. I am far from an expert on the mechanics of this game, however, so if I’ve got something wrong, please correct me. If this topic has been raised before, please direct me to the appropriate thread.)
Section 1. Natives: Barbarians are people, too
If you’re like me, you’ve probably gotten into the habit of killing barbarians whenever the opportunity presents itself. But that’s not very nice, is it?
Sure, we all know that (in this game) you’ll never live peacefully with the native peoples. But you don’t need to be the aggressor. The key to dealing fairly with barbarians is retaliation.
First you must realize that not all barbarians are the same. You may not have paid much attention to the tribes’ names, but now you’ll probably want to write them down so you can keep track of each tribe’s aggression level.
When an armed unit encounters the first barbarian, don’t attack. Make a note of the barbarian’s tribe name and go about your business. Step around him if you have to.
If the barbarian lets you pass, you must extend the next member of his tribe the same courtesy. If he attacks you, you can attack him (if he survived) and other members of his tribe.
Rules of Retaliation:
1. Barbarian pillages improvements:
You may attack any barbarian from that tribe found on any improved square (or any barbarian you have directly observed pillaging improvements).
2. Barbarian attacks armed unit (including naval unit) outside cultural borders:
You may attack barbarians from that tribe at will, but not attack tribal villages.
3. Barbarian attacks city, attacks armed unit (including naval unit) inside cultural borders, or destroys unarmed unit (worker, settler, scout, etc.):
All-out war – barbarians from this tribe and their villages may be attacked at will. (As there is no communication with barbarians, there is no way to negotiate peace once war has started.)
Exception: At the end of an age, you may notice that a previously peaceful tribal village has assembled a huge stack of mounted warriors. In this case, as you have actually seen their weapons of mass destruction and can be certain their intentions are to wreak havoc on you and/or your neighbors, a pre-emptive strike is allowed.
Contact: Entering a goody hut amounts to trying to establish friendly relations with the barbarians. Sometimes you are successful, sometimes you aren’t, but you can’t be faulted for trying. If you end up angering some warriors, you still must wait for them to attack first, unless their tribe has attacked you before.
Tips:
Sending settlers out with archers is great when you’re attacking barbs, but not so good when you’re waiting for them to attack. I lost two settlers before I learned to send them out with spearmen.
When you take that last step with a scout and expose a barbarian, make sure you note that barbarian’s tribe before (or when) he kills you.
If, purely in the spirit of peace and friendship, you build a town next to a non-aggressive barbarian village, and they decide to take off (and leave some gold behind), well that’s hardly your fault.
Section 2. Sustainable Populations: Empathy and Ivory
Whaling and ivory dealing are not inherently worse than using any other animal products. The problem is that whales and elephants have been hunted to near-extinction. Therefore, these are not forbidden, so long as you maintain sustainable populations.
Ivory:
If you have no ivory, you may not purchase it from another civ, as you cannot trust them to maintain the species.
If you have ivory in your territory, you may use it so long as you leave at least one unused for every three* you use. Here’s how it works:
1 ivory: Can’t use it (but you may buy ivory from another civ).
2 ivory: Use 1.
3 ivory: Use 2
4 ivory: Use 3
5 ivory: Use 3
6 ivory: Use 4
7 ivory: Use 5
8 ivory: Use 6
9 ivory: Use 6
10 ivory: Use 7
11 ivory: Use 8
12 ivory: Use 9
(etc.)
*Original ratio was 1:2, but 1:3 proved more realistic in subsequent gameplay.
Unused ivory tiles are essentially nature preserves and may not be improved. If possible, plan your city placement so your elephant preserve(s) fall outside your cities’ workable areas.
Whales:
The one unused per three used rule also applies to whales. This is accomplished most easily with city placement. For every whale or two you want to use, block at least one whale by placing cities where they fill out the coastline, but citizens can’t work the whale tile.
Only the whales that your borders prevent other civs from accessing can be counted as blocked whales in your calculations. (In other words, you can’t count a whale as unused unless every land tile from which a city could access the whale is within your cultural borders.)
Micromanaging:
If you’re into managing each city turn-by-turn, you can grab all the whales you want and just make sure you maintain the 1:3 ratio for the whales being worked on any one turn. This is probably the most ecologically sound approach, as it allows you to shift the burden between the populations and maintain all of them.
Tips:
If the best site for your capital or other early city is potentially within range of a whale, you may settle it and keep citizens away until another whale is secured. Keep in mind, though, that if another whale is never found and blocked off, you’ll have to keep citizens away from the first whale for the rest of the game.
Sometimes whales show up in narrow channels between two land masses, giving civs on both sides a chance at it. It’s best to grab these and block off whales in more desolate areas.
War rule:
If you are at war and another civ takes a city with an unused item and messes up your ratio, you may continue to use anything you are already using as long as you are still at war. Once peace is reached, you must reassess your ratios and make adjustments. For ivory, pillage improvements if necessary. For whales, you may need to either abandon a city and rebuild out of range of the whale or micromanage it to make sure the whale isn’t used, at least until you can secure another to block off.
Flip rule:
If, while at peace, one of your cities flips and changes your ratios, you must make any adjustments immediately. If at war with the civ that flipped your city, you may wait until the war is over to make adjustments.
(Note: There are many ways this rule could work. On one hand, you could require a 1:1 used/unused ratio; on the other, you could hook up as many as you wanted so long as you left one unused. I’d love to hear your opinions on this, especially from those with wildlife management expertise.)
Section 3. War: All’s fair in love, but . . .
Your motivation for going to war is what I call “justified ethnocentrism.” After observing the atrocities committed by the other civs around you, you have concluded that the future of the human race depends on your civ being the first to reach Alpha Centauri.
However, war should be a last resort. Try to get what you need through expansion and trading when possible.
If you decide you must go to war, try to get the other civ to declare first by ordering them out of your territory, refusing to pay tribute or by any other means. You have a higher moral ground when they declare war first, and you can justify taking your time and using your forces to punish them for their transgression.
On the other hand, if you declare war, you must achieve your objectives and try for peace as quickly as possible. While you are not obligated to pay for peace, you should accept an even trade or anything they’ll offer once your war goals are met. If they refuse, you can then take other resources or luxuries and attack their cities to lure them to the negotiation table.
Reasons for war:
Resource: This is the most justifiable reason for war. It’s not practical to trade for iron, for instance, as you’ll need it for most of the game. You’ll want an uninterrupted supply of aluminum in a close spaceship race. On the other hand, if you can deal for uranium around the time you’re ready to build your fuel cells, that will give you all you need for the spaceship plus enough to build a few power plants and/or nukes (if your conscience will allow them).
Territory: While strong expansion skills are needed to survive the disadvantage at which you are putting yourself, sometimes you’ll start off between Babylon and a hard place. Luckily, in cramped quarters it is easier to get another civ to declare war first. But don’t be too greedy – a medium-sized empire can be most efficient as luxury prices are more manageable.
Luxury: Probably the weakest reason for declaring war, but allowable in desperate situations.
There are other reasons, of course -- retaking lost cities, balance of power, aiding an ally, etc. – but these vary by situation and will require you to use your own ethical judgment.
Bloodless war:
If you’re after a resource or luxury, go for a “bloodless war” if you can. Try to locate a source of the item you need that is at least two squares from a city and, preferably, near the coast. Declare war on the civ that has what you need, then send a settler and appropriate reinforcements. Build a city next to the item.
If you don’t have access to the coast, try to secure it before signing a peace treaty by building another city or (last resort) taking a coastal town from the enemy. (A harbor will be useful in the event you go back to war with the civ from which you just pilfered a valuable item.)
Minimalist warfare
ETA 10/12/08: As of this posting, the above link was the last time I declared war. I have found that patience and opportunism can often land that needed item if you pay attention to the wars around the globe and be ready to pounce when land with (or next to) resources opens up. I've won several more games at emperor level and even one at demigod this way.
Section 4. Slavery: Let their people go
Foreign workers cost you no upkeep when you set them to work in your empire. This is slavery, and it will not be tolerated.
Captured workers:
While you should generally avoid capturing workers, you don’t need to walk around them if they are in your way. Also, sometimes you will capture workers when you conquer a city. The easiest way to deal with them is to turn them around and send them into their homeland to be recaptured.
If peace is declared before all of the slaves are emancipated, gift them back to their home civ. If they’re the ones who declared war, you may sell them as many as they’ll buy, then give them the rest. (You may not sell them to other civs.)
ETA 12/08: When they declared war on you, disbanding workers is another viable option.
Captured worker tip #1
Captured worker tip #2
Buying and selling workers:
Buying foreign workers to use as slaves and selling your own people into slavery are expressly forbidden.
However, if you discover another civ is willing to sell you back one of your own workers that they have enslaved, this should be a top priority. The worker’s freedom is more important than any “We will not negotiate with terrorists” rhetoric.
Section 5. Starvation: Food for naught
Conquering a city and starving it down to reduce the foreign population is comparable to ethnic cleansing. This may only be done when the other civ declared war on you, and then only until a peace settlement is reached.
After peace is reached, or if you were the one to declare war, you can reduce the size of these cities by building workers. These will be foreigners, but since you built them, you have the option of joining them to your other cities or selling them to their home civilization. You may also gift them to their home civ, but you should probably avoid that unless you need the attitude adjustment. You may not put them to work.
Edit, 4/7/08: After further introspection prompted by a post from Meisen, I've decided that, in addition to the requirements listed above, I will not starve a city unless it is in resistance. Of course, you may decide for yourself whether to add this to your own rule set.
Exception: Sometimes, often right after resistance ends, you can turn all but one of the citizens into entertainers and the last one will still be unhappy. It is acceptable to turn all the citizens into specialists if that is necessary to prevent a riot, even if it ends up starving the city.
Tip:
It takes longer to pare down a city by building workers than it does by starving it. Rushing a cultural building can help keep it from flipping in the meantime. (Of course, you can also rush the workers to speed things up.)
Conclusion:
While this should get you started, this isn’t a comprehensive list of the ethical situations you will encounter. There are a lot of gray areas in which you’ll have to use your own moral judgment to determine the righteous course.
I know that playing this way is not for everyone, but it adds an element of reality to the game that I find entertaining and thought-provoking. I hope some of you will, too.
I realize I’ve opened up a philosophical Pandora’s Box with this, as interpretations of what constitutes just and unjust actions will certainly vary. Ultimately, though, it is your own conscience you need to satisfy, not mine.
Optional suicide galley rule and galley rule, further refined.
Optional deforestation rule
I realized, though, that I was being hypocritical. There are several things I was doing in my Civ III games that I would never do in real life – acts as horrible as ethnic cleansing and owning and selling slaves to comparably lesser evils such as whaling and ivory dealing. I wondered if I could cut such things out and still have any success.
I’ve played a few games this way, and now, fresh off a skin-of-my-teeth Monarch win, I thought I’d share some rules and tips for building an empire of which you and your conscience can both be proud.
(Note: While GameTap only has PTW, I believe everything I’ve written here applies to all versions of Civ III. I am far from an expert on the mechanics of this game, however, so if I’ve got something wrong, please correct me. If this topic has been raised before, please direct me to the appropriate thread.)
Section 1. Natives: Barbarians are people, too
If you’re like me, you’ve probably gotten into the habit of killing barbarians whenever the opportunity presents itself. But that’s not very nice, is it?
Sure, we all know that (in this game) you’ll never live peacefully with the native peoples. But you don’t need to be the aggressor. The key to dealing fairly with barbarians is retaliation.
First you must realize that not all barbarians are the same. You may not have paid much attention to the tribes’ names, but now you’ll probably want to write them down so you can keep track of each tribe’s aggression level.
When an armed unit encounters the first barbarian, don’t attack. Make a note of the barbarian’s tribe name and go about your business. Step around him if you have to.
If the barbarian lets you pass, you must extend the next member of his tribe the same courtesy. If he attacks you, you can attack him (if he survived) and other members of his tribe.
Rules of Retaliation:
1. Barbarian pillages improvements:
You may attack any barbarian from that tribe found on any improved square (or any barbarian you have directly observed pillaging improvements).
2. Barbarian attacks armed unit (including naval unit) outside cultural borders:
You may attack barbarians from that tribe at will, but not attack tribal villages.
3. Barbarian attacks city, attacks armed unit (including naval unit) inside cultural borders, or destroys unarmed unit (worker, settler, scout, etc.):
All-out war – barbarians from this tribe and their villages may be attacked at will. (As there is no communication with barbarians, there is no way to negotiate peace once war has started.)
Exception: At the end of an age, you may notice that a previously peaceful tribal village has assembled a huge stack of mounted warriors. In this case, as you have actually seen their weapons of mass destruction and can be certain their intentions are to wreak havoc on you and/or your neighbors, a pre-emptive strike is allowed.
Contact: Entering a goody hut amounts to trying to establish friendly relations with the barbarians. Sometimes you are successful, sometimes you aren’t, but you can’t be faulted for trying. If you end up angering some warriors, you still must wait for them to attack first, unless their tribe has attacked you before.
Tips:
Sending settlers out with archers is great when you’re attacking barbs, but not so good when you’re waiting for them to attack. I lost two settlers before I learned to send them out with spearmen.
When you take that last step with a scout and expose a barbarian, make sure you note that barbarian’s tribe before (or when) he kills you.
If, purely in the spirit of peace and friendship, you build a town next to a non-aggressive barbarian village, and they decide to take off (and leave some gold behind), well that’s hardly your fault.
Section 2. Sustainable Populations: Empathy and Ivory
Whaling and ivory dealing are not inherently worse than using any other animal products. The problem is that whales and elephants have been hunted to near-extinction. Therefore, these are not forbidden, so long as you maintain sustainable populations.
Ivory:
If you have no ivory, you may not purchase it from another civ, as you cannot trust them to maintain the species.
If you have ivory in your territory, you may use it so long as you leave at least one unused for every three* you use. Here’s how it works:
1 ivory: Can’t use it (but you may buy ivory from another civ).
2 ivory: Use 1.
3 ivory: Use 2
4 ivory: Use 3
5 ivory: Use 3
6 ivory: Use 4
7 ivory: Use 5
8 ivory: Use 6
9 ivory: Use 6
10 ivory: Use 7
11 ivory: Use 8
12 ivory: Use 9
(etc.)
*Original ratio was 1:2, but 1:3 proved more realistic in subsequent gameplay.
Unused ivory tiles are essentially nature preserves and may not be improved. If possible, plan your city placement so your elephant preserve(s) fall outside your cities’ workable areas.
Whales:
The one unused per three used rule also applies to whales. This is accomplished most easily with city placement. For every whale or two you want to use, block at least one whale by placing cities where they fill out the coastline, but citizens can’t work the whale tile.
Only the whales that your borders prevent other civs from accessing can be counted as blocked whales in your calculations. (In other words, you can’t count a whale as unused unless every land tile from which a city could access the whale is within your cultural borders.)
Micromanaging:
If you’re into managing each city turn-by-turn, you can grab all the whales you want and just make sure you maintain the 1:3 ratio for the whales being worked on any one turn. This is probably the most ecologically sound approach, as it allows you to shift the burden between the populations and maintain all of them.
Tips:
If the best site for your capital or other early city is potentially within range of a whale, you may settle it and keep citizens away until another whale is secured. Keep in mind, though, that if another whale is never found and blocked off, you’ll have to keep citizens away from the first whale for the rest of the game.
Sometimes whales show up in narrow channels between two land masses, giving civs on both sides a chance at it. It’s best to grab these and block off whales in more desolate areas.
War rule:
If you are at war and another civ takes a city with an unused item and messes up your ratio, you may continue to use anything you are already using as long as you are still at war. Once peace is reached, you must reassess your ratios and make adjustments. For ivory, pillage improvements if necessary. For whales, you may need to either abandon a city and rebuild out of range of the whale or micromanage it to make sure the whale isn’t used, at least until you can secure another to block off.
Flip rule:
If, while at peace, one of your cities flips and changes your ratios, you must make any adjustments immediately. If at war with the civ that flipped your city, you may wait until the war is over to make adjustments.
(Note: There are many ways this rule could work. On one hand, you could require a 1:1 used/unused ratio; on the other, you could hook up as many as you wanted so long as you left one unused. I’d love to hear your opinions on this, especially from those with wildlife management expertise.)
Section 3. War: All’s fair in love, but . . .
Your motivation for going to war is what I call “justified ethnocentrism.” After observing the atrocities committed by the other civs around you, you have concluded that the future of the human race depends on your civ being the first to reach Alpha Centauri.
However, war should be a last resort. Try to get what you need through expansion and trading when possible.
If you decide you must go to war, try to get the other civ to declare first by ordering them out of your territory, refusing to pay tribute or by any other means. You have a higher moral ground when they declare war first, and you can justify taking your time and using your forces to punish them for their transgression.
On the other hand, if you declare war, you must achieve your objectives and try for peace as quickly as possible. While you are not obligated to pay for peace, you should accept an even trade or anything they’ll offer once your war goals are met. If they refuse, you can then take other resources or luxuries and attack their cities to lure them to the negotiation table.
Reasons for war:
Resource: This is the most justifiable reason for war. It’s not practical to trade for iron, for instance, as you’ll need it for most of the game. You’ll want an uninterrupted supply of aluminum in a close spaceship race. On the other hand, if you can deal for uranium around the time you’re ready to build your fuel cells, that will give you all you need for the spaceship plus enough to build a few power plants and/or nukes (if your conscience will allow them).
Territory: While strong expansion skills are needed to survive the disadvantage at which you are putting yourself, sometimes you’ll start off between Babylon and a hard place. Luckily, in cramped quarters it is easier to get another civ to declare war first. But don’t be too greedy – a medium-sized empire can be most efficient as luxury prices are more manageable.
Luxury: Probably the weakest reason for declaring war, but allowable in desperate situations.
There are other reasons, of course -- retaking lost cities, balance of power, aiding an ally, etc. – but these vary by situation and will require you to use your own ethical judgment.
Bloodless war:
If you’re after a resource or luxury, go for a “bloodless war” if you can. Try to locate a source of the item you need that is at least two squares from a city and, preferably, near the coast. Declare war on the civ that has what you need, then send a settler and appropriate reinforcements. Build a city next to the item.
If you don’t have access to the coast, try to secure it before signing a peace treaty by building another city or (last resort) taking a coastal town from the enemy. (A harbor will be useful in the event you go back to war with the civ from which you just pilfered a valuable item.)
Minimalist warfare
ETA 10/12/08: As of this posting, the above link was the last time I declared war. I have found that patience and opportunism can often land that needed item if you pay attention to the wars around the globe and be ready to pounce when land with (or next to) resources opens up. I've won several more games at emperor level and even one at demigod this way.
Section 4. Slavery: Let their people go
Foreign workers cost you no upkeep when you set them to work in your empire. This is slavery, and it will not be tolerated.
Captured workers:
While you should generally avoid capturing workers, you don’t need to walk around them if they are in your way. Also, sometimes you will capture workers when you conquer a city. The easiest way to deal with them is to turn them around and send them into their homeland to be recaptured.
If peace is declared before all of the slaves are emancipated, gift them back to their home civ. If they’re the ones who declared war, you may sell them as many as they’ll buy, then give them the rest. (You may not sell them to other civs.)
ETA 12/08: When they declared war on you, disbanding workers is another viable option.
Captured worker tip #1
Captured worker tip #2
Buying and selling workers:
Buying foreign workers to use as slaves and selling your own people into slavery are expressly forbidden.
However, if you discover another civ is willing to sell you back one of your own workers that they have enslaved, this should be a top priority. The worker’s freedom is more important than any “We will not negotiate with terrorists” rhetoric.
Section 5. Starvation: Food for naught
Conquering a city and starving it down to reduce the foreign population is comparable to ethnic cleansing. This may only be done when the other civ declared war on you, and then only until a peace settlement is reached.
After peace is reached, or if you were the one to declare war, you can reduce the size of these cities by building workers. These will be foreigners, but since you built them, you have the option of joining them to your other cities or selling them to their home civilization. You may also gift them to their home civ, but you should probably avoid that unless you need the attitude adjustment. You may not put them to work.
Edit, 4/7/08: After further introspection prompted by a post from Meisen, I've decided that, in addition to the requirements listed above, I will not starve a city unless it is in resistance. Of course, you may decide for yourself whether to add this to your own rule set.
Exception: Sometimes, often right after resistance ends, you can turn all but one of the citizens into entertainers and the last one will still be unhappy. It is acceptable to turn all the citizens into specialists if that is necessary to prevent a riot, even if it ends up starving the city.
Tip:
It takes longer to pare down a city by building workers than it does by starving it. Rushing a cultural building can help keep it from flipping in the meantime. (Of course, you can also rush the workers to speed things up.)
Conclusion:
While this should get you started, this isn’t a comprehensive list of the ethical situations you will encounter. There are a lot of gray areas in which you’ll have to use your own moral judgment to determine the righteous course.
I know that playing this way is not for everyone, but it adds an element of reality to the game that I find entertaining and thought-provoking. I hope some of you will, too.
I realize I’ve opened up a philosophical Pandora’s Box with this, as interpretations of what constitutes just and unjust actions will certainly vary. Ultimately, though, it is your own conscience you need to satisfy, not mine.
Optional suicide galley rule and galley rule, further refined.
Optional deforestation rule
You know the tune, don't you? We used to close out our music workshops with it as the last piece, acappella. . . .
