Nobles Club III - Kulai Khan

Bleys

Bleys

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Its KHHHAAAAANNN!

Star Trek relates aside, welcome to the third installment of the Nobles Club, a regular series geared toward the Noble/Prince-level player, but most certainly open to anyone who wishes to play.

Heres our man of the month, and let me tell ya, hes no Ricardo Montalban!



As for the starting position, Holy Grass Hills Batman! (I like the looks of those holes in the foresting as well)



There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. We also request that as you progress, you link back to your earlier posts for that game, so that folks can see how you progressed through the ages (if you need help with how to do that, ask, its really simple once you know how, a great example of the technique is here, by Refar).

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
2000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build process, which AIs you have met, etc)
1 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1000 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1500 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Once again, special recognition goes out to r_rolo1, our Map Maker, who sets these up for us (so I can play without peeking, heh, the WB needs to be modified) and also to Krick19, who came up with the idea of running a series like this for the less confident players. It is our goal to get folks to play and post without feeling self-conscious about being a "n00b" or asking dumb things. There are NO stupid questions! Learning this game is a process, not an event.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the HoF MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for NC III Kublai Khan. This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick Warlord to Marathon Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it :goodjob:

Good luck to all, may the game begin!
 

Attachments

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Oh yer. This is what I'm chatting!

Checkpoint 1: 400BC

So the our mighty civ starts with hunting and the wheel. To me this says some early chariots for escorting settlers and fog busting.

Given the start I, like lots of you no doubt, will go agg> mining> BW> AH then maybe pot, masonary or archery. Really depends on whats out there! My early goal will be to go for the oracal with some chops to get CoL. While its building tech writing then HBR. I also fancy the GW for the great spy as I reckon that espionage might be a good way of keeping the tempo of war in line with the Keshiks.

Creative is a pretty good trait IMO. +2 :culture: means not having to build monuments, which is a great help early on. Also the double production speed of Libarys, Theatres and Colosseums helps to push your culture even harder, and the cheap :) buildings help in war time.

Aggresive. We all know and love this no doubt! Free combat 1 for all melee and gunpowder units, and double prodution sped of Barracks and Drydocks.

Our UU and UB come on line with the same tech and complement each other perfectly. With a cheap barracks, and a Ger you can start pumping out 7XP Keshiks. Settle an early GG and its like having west point and the pentagon for your horses!

Inital build will be worker> millitary (maybe even a second scout!) till happy cap then settlers> worker> millitary> settler. I think.

So to recap my plans. Expand to 3/4 cities, try to grab both the GW and the Oracle (if not GW then Zeus, for which you need 3 monuments), trade as early as possible for Alpha, whilst working up to currency. Pump a load of Keshics then bust some heads, then settle down. I want to try to get a diplomatic win this game just to be difficult! I guess that means not leaving a war victim alive to vote against me. Umm shotgun diplomacy....

Oh yer, I'm going for Prince, Epic. Good luck everyone!

Checkpoint 2: 2000BC
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6650359&postcount=18

Checkpoint 3: 25BC
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6654747&postcount=55

Checkpiont 4: 1510AD
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6669316&postcount=121
 
Early thoughts on the start:

Heavy production capitol, Bur is going to be huge.

Wonders are possible with this, lots of forest to chop, lots of mines for hammers, later, windmills for commerce if desired.

Grass hole may be horses, hole on the hill may be a metal, but nothing is certain.

River peeking through to the east, water at our western back is a plus and a minus (it protects us from AIs and barbs in that direction, but those tiles are still weak).

Tech path looks to be Ag, Mining, BW, AH, Archery, HBR (if we have horses close). Build looks like Worker, Military to cap, Settler, Worker, Settler, Worker. However, a Scout first could pay off with extra huts, especially at Prince and below. Finding important resources are key though.

There are some other possibles. Fishing for a workboat to explore that coast. If marble or stone appears, Masonry becomes a possibility. We know its Pangaea, and our leader is AGG and CRE, both strong Pangaea traits (warmongering and fast border pops, especially in captured cities). His UU is a beast, but the tech path to it is a bit clumsy, but well worth it in my book. I plan to settle aggressively and tear up the land with those babies.
 
Wow, I dunno where to settle. It's all the same.

Checkpoint 1:

Checkpoint 2:

Checkpoint 3:

Checkpoint 4:

Checkpoint 5:

Checkpoint 6:
 
I'm in. What are the settings? Is this a continents map? Pangaea? Terra (It's hard to imagine a map featuring a khan on a Terra map though, that's just easy conquest :p).

Since I've been getting smacked around in MadScientists RPC (seriously, after like 3-4 tries too!) and a LHC game (gradually refining SE), I'll probably drop a level here and run some Prince (also helps me get use to timing on epic). OK, anyway regardless of that we are going AG --- > Mining ----> BW --> Archery ---> AH ---> path to priesthood. With all those forests I'm going for the oracle (teching writing after priesthood).

After that, it depends on what we bump into. In the semi rare condition that we meet 4+ AI's, we'll take alphabet with Oracle and trade around a bit. Ill also take it if I have 2+ AI's but no horses. If we have horses though, we might just be taking HBR for some early hell. I do like having currency or CoL prior to that though, so that we can hold onto more conquests by building wealth or running merchants.

Only way this plan changes is really close stone. 3 keshik production centers under police state is very tempting to me =P.



Anyway, I've not dl'd the map yet, but will in a sec.
 
Yeeeeehaw! I'm excited, if you can't tell. :)

At first glance, the start looks interesting. It's possible that the two sugar tiles are not connected via the land mass, but this could just be a lake/bay. I don't like my starting city having workable tiles only accessible via boat if I'm not going to be a sea-fearing people, but I'm unsure where else one should settle with all those hills and trees. The coast tiles could be good commerce with Bureaucracy (and Colossus?) and later on that sugar.

Tech wise, I think MeInTeam has it right, Ag first to work that corn while worker number 1 brings the jumbos online. Mining, BW is going to be needed as well, and I may have to trade for fishing once I want to work those water tiles. By the time BW & AH are done, I should have a settler ready to go to claim whatever copper and/or horsies I see.

Okay, let's get 'er done!

Checkpoint Links:
Check Point 1, 2000 BC
Check Point 1.5, 1750 BC
Check Point 2, 25 AD
Check Point 3, 665 AD
 
Lookit all those grass hills! :eek:

As Bleys says, its a change in plans for early techs, definatley, aggr > mining > B/working, between the corn and sugar you will be able to work a load of those mines and it really is chop city!

I will probably settle in place, gives us a little health bonus from that titchy river. Its always nice to see jumbo's right at the start, for the early happy and war ellies (which still count with the Ger right?).

Build order, again pretty much as bleys said. Worker, then warriors (until something better comes along). Once this city is set it'll be a super early production capital. I too am drooling at the thought of bureaucracy! :drool:

I'll be playing Prince/Epic for this one.

Since the Rameses game I managed another two wins at Prince so I'll feeling comfortable there now. :)
 
Yippee. Okay, I'll probably start on this tomorrow, but tonight I'm too tired. I've read people's comments and tech plans and it seems in line with what I was going to do anyway. Not sure about wonders though. Can't think of any early wonders that would be particularly synergetic with our plan... Maybe one is a good idea. Oracle for a free tech... Something like that. Unless I'm blind to something? I suck at remembering all the details of the tech tree.

I think I will play this one with domination as a plan from the beginning. We'll see.

Oh, and I reserve this area for links later on for my checkpoints. But I'll also put links to previous updates in the newer checkpoints, as Bleys, I believe, suggested.

Prince, Epic...


2000 BC http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6654743&postcount=54
1AD http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6654942&postcount=56
Checkpoint 3 link
Checkpoint 4 bla bla... however many there are.
 
Checkpoint 1, 2000 BC.

Spoiler :

Ol' Kublai Khan ventures forth and directs his tribe to settle on the shores of the massive body of water, eyeing the low valleys and forested hills with a hungry eye to the future. "For the horde!" he yells, but there will be a long time before a Mongolian Horde will be raised. Kublai sees elephants and smiles, knowing that they shall see a place of honor in his grand army.

Two turns and his scouts find a small village, the first of many to be conquered. They have nothing to give his scouts but a map of the surrounding area, but their scouts have knowledge of the location of another civilization! The Koreans lay just south of Kublai, and have city ripe with future money-making resources.

"Perfect," purrs he.

Soon after, we meet ze Germans, and a few turns after that, a very sober Englishwoman. At turn 19, we meet Tokugawa. Kublai stifles a laugh.

Turn 23, we get our first worker and immediately begin on a warrior to defend our meager city.

We finally find Freddy, to the south west of us. Tight quarters make Kublai grin, but there is much work to be done here.

Disaster strikes in turn 3125 when our scout is tag teamed and dies. :( We quickly begin training a new scout as there is much land left to discover.

Bronze working is developed and we find a nearby source. We may have to race Wang to it, or, should we fail that race, just kill the Korean and take it. Kublai likes this idea.

At turn 54, AH is done, and horses are revealed to be a good 10 tiles away from Karakorum. There is rice, pigs, rivers and lots of grass in the area, so this is a likely spot for a city. As soon as my next warrior is done, I decide to chop a settler and claim that spot.


Temptation, temptation... Freddy has left a worker unsupervised. Should I take it or should I not? I will take a hit with both Vicky and Wang if I do. Oh hell this is Kublai, I say yes. My warrior swoops and scoops up the worker, who makes it safely back to Mongol lands.


Bandits get into our farm, but I pay to save it.

I take part of the money out of Freddy's farm and get 8 gold back.


ARRRGH. Wang has settled two paces away from where I wanted to settle my horse town. I change tacks and settle near the copper. Wang will die. Oh yes. He will die.


Beshbalik is founded defiantly in the face of Wang's holy city.


And to finish the round, I steal a worker from Wang, this is the most reckless I have ever played, but the close quarters almost demand this of me. Seoul is lightly defended, which is good news, just one warrior, but I don't quite have the troops to take it out.

This is where our first check point stops. I'm excited, and nervous to get feedback, as this is my first play for play game that I have done.

I am, as you can imagine, drastically ahead in power, although Vicky has been trying to catch up. Tech wise I feel that I am a bit out of my element, as I am used to the slower pace of the AI from Warlord difficulty. Wang has already got Monotheism and Seoul is a double holy city, which confirms my desire to take it. I certainly have Wang licked on power, and once I can marshal my troops to Seoul, I have no doubt I can take the city, especially if I can get axes online fast. I should have done that before, and should things turn south for me in round 2, I will reload and aim for that path.

Tech wise, I followed MeInTeam's plan, opting to nab AH before archery so that I could get a picture of the horsies before I settled, well, where I settled, my second city. I am still following it, opting to make a stab at the oracle before Wang of the Marble gets it. Hopefully I'll have the workers to chop/whip it fast.

Build wise, I also tried something new, starting with a worker and then pumping out military units. I did build a scout to replace my dead one (who died as well to a lion, blech.) I am going to pump out a few more units, hopefully some axemen, and try to polish off Wang and take Seoul. That should warrant me some workers who are going to be in a chop frenzy for the oracle.


Checkpoint Links:
Check Point 1, 2000 BC
Check Point 1.5, 1750 BC
Check Point 2, 25 AD
Check Point 3, 665 AD
 
Darn, Jaaboo. That was quick, you don't mess around. I havn't even opened the save yet.

SimonL, I'm still deciding how to play this (wonderwise), I may even not build any early wonders at all! It kind of depends whether I'm going all out war or sensible build up an economy war. I'll really miss not having the mid's, :( but then the mid's is about 10 keshicks, hammerwise.

Oracle might be handy tho.

It's getting late and I need some sleep so I'm gonna play in the mornin.
 
Haha, well, one, I'm on pacific time, and two, my wife works later than me, so I have an hour or two to play, this just happened to coincide well with it. :D
 
I am all the way to 55 AD, but I am not going to share much of my game just yet, LOL, its crazy though!

Here is Checkpoint 1:

Spoiler :
Once again, I forgot to take screenies at key points, but heres a decent rundown.

Settled in place, and teched Ag as I built a worker. Sent the scout out hut-popping, but didnt manage to get many, 3 I think, all cash. Bummer, I was hoping to pop Fishing in one, to be honest. No worries though. Worker farms the corn then heads to the Ellies while I tech Mining and BW. Soon, I am chopping out a settler after 2 warriors got me near enough the happy cap. Just as I begin to move my settler toward the Copper, I finish AH, see the horses, and Wang settles his 2nd city ON the copper! Oh well, no worries, I think I know who I am going to kill fairly quickly. I move my settler to the 2-dye, Marble, and Horses site, man I love CRE, best trait in the game IMHO. I chop out another worker or 2, and another settler, while building roads to my new city. 3rd city is past the horses, near the next river over, with Gems, Rice and Nannas in the BFC. No fresh water, and no Levee later, but I doubt this game will ever see Steam Power, so I am not worried. As I am running around, my scout gets eaten by bears, but not before I meet all the civs. Actually, I met Toku last, by parking my warrior near where I wanted to put city 3, hoping for some animal hits for XP but didnt get em. Not a pleasant bunch, thats for sure! Closest neighbor is PRO, Freddy . . . well what can be said about Lay-Down Freddy, German surplus bows, never been fired and only dropped once! Vicky can be a problem, depends, Ragnar is ALWAYS tough, and Toku, another PRO, is far enough away that he will be pretty entrenched with defensive units by the time I get around to him.

With 3 cities and 4 workers, I tech Archery and HBR after BW. I try to save all the rest of the forests, though, I want them for Ger and Keshys. HBR takes a LONG TIME, but boy was it worth it. By the time it comes in, I have built Barracks and a couple Archers in each of my 3 cities (using careful whipping, mostly). I immediately start chopping every forest in sight, for Gers in all 3, before I start a single Keshik. The rest of my forests are going for Keshys themselves.

So now, I have 3 cities, all with decent production from forests/slavery, pumping out Combat I, Flanking I Keshiks. I take far too long, building far to many, but by around 1500 BC, I have 12, and its time!

Going to write up Checkpoint #2 tommorrow, though, I am pretty tired. I am really trying to play totally "re-load free", even for mistakes, and I made a couple. Next update will be sweet though, and I will take some screenies to help. Heh, I am so amused, these Keshiks are GODDLY!
 
Nice!

Here we go!!! I'll play Prince/epic. I suck at warmongering, so i really welcome your comments!!

4000BC
Spoiler :
Ok, just opened the game to make sure it works well. Settled in place, didn't see any advantage of losing a turn here. Corn and Jumbos will be worked by the first worker, then I think warrior till happy cap (? might be changed in funcion of scouting/resources).

Tech wise : Agr/Mining/BW then we'll see. I don't think I'll rush for HBR as it's expensive, but it will definitely be a priority. I'm thinking of avoiding the religious techs altogether, CRE doesn't need monuments, so that's nice. I'll backfill it through trading, or preferably through warring!!

I'll scout in circles around the capital (well semi circles, probably) to find copper/horses as soon as they're revealed, and also find the nearest opponent. I'll probably not rush him, but the plan is to take 1 civ out with keshiks, and pillage another one, which I'll finish off with Elephants and Cats. I'l raze most cities (damn partisan event will occur I reckon), except for capitals and holy cities.

This capital will be very nice production wise, maybe an early wonder will be built... GW most probably, as stonehenge would be useless considering CRE and no religion founding, Mids are too expensive compared to the Keshiks, and I don't plan on the Oracle as I'll avoid early religious techs.


1850BC

Spoiler :
So far I went Agr/mining/BW/RCH/Writing/HBR (in progress)

My scout did some very good job. I first popped a second scout, so the map revealed itself quite fast. My first scout got a hut promoting him to WoodsM II, and later on even Hill promotion (whatever its called). I met the civs: Fred, Wang, Vicky, Toku, Justinian and Ragnar. A popped map showed me Ragnar's land, nice. Justinian is Buddhist, and noone is Hindu yet! I'm not sure it's founded, maybe Justinian got both???


I went worker/warriorx3/ Settler/ archer/ barracks/settler/library in the capital. My first city was founded on the spices, near the copper, which I got online now, and connected to the capital too.

The second settler is on his way to the horses. Not sure where I'll settle him exactly.

Here is a screenshot of the lands right now. Grey seems like a good choice, pigs and river. But blue would take the gems which might be crucial to sustain early warring.
Green captures a lot of resources, but it would require a long road to connect and I want my Keschiks soon.




As for warring plans, I think I'll go for Fred first. He has jumbos now, so I want to kill him before he has construction (elephants would hurt my keshiks bad). Wang is protective, so I might need some cats, or at least better promoted keshiks.

As for diplomacy, the good thing is that the two targets on my south didn't meet everyone yet, so it's better to take them out early I reckon.
I need to become friendly with one of the aggressives. Toku is closer, but it's hard to become friends with him. Maybe a war with him against Vicky could help later on? Ragnar is also an option, but he's further away. If Ragnar declares on Toku, I'll help him a bit :D NOTE: I didn't open borders with anyone just yet, I want to be careful with the diplomacy this time.

In general, my biggest fear is Justinian, he's on the other side of the map, and already leading in score, it seems he has a lot of land to grow. But that's for later.


940 AD:


Spoiler :

Yes, a big round, sorry to have slightly passed the proposed checkpoint drill :mischief:

The Mongol hordes have struck!! The first target were ze Germans, no major trouble here, but still lost more units than I would like to. I only kept Berlin, which doesn't have any wonders. After that Wang was the logical target, he built the GW and founded Hinduism (very late), but it seems the Hordes were a bit careless, as the holy GW city was razed... hmm... small error here. I kept Seoul though.

Meanwhile, the economy is in shambles. I do have alphabet (traded with Justinian for HBR), and had a small peace with Wang to get some religious techs while the hordes where resting. I finished him off, and razed another barb city.

I figured the main costs where the keshiks (besides court-less cities of course), so I should leverage them, right? Vicky has founded a city for gems/cows in the north, I might want to take that, and of course London seems tasty.

oh wait... someone is knocking at the door. Yes? Oh Ragnar! how you doing old fella'? what? You're up to killing, burning and raping? on Victoria? well... I guess I'll join in!

Now, I send my Keshiks with 3CRIII axes to London, heavy cultural defence, and well defended (pointy spikes aïïïïkkkk). Ragnar was coming close to it with a stack of cats, swords and ... charriots. I gambled a bit by letting the bearded man attack first, and ... yes it payed off!! I could attack wounded englishmen with no cultural defence, while Ragnar SOD was left with only one chariot! sucker!!

I took London and kept it, razed another english city, and then took the gems cows city. Vicky was left with only one city, too far away to be interesting, so I sued for peace, and she agreed to give me Currency and CoL. (I was only three turns away form CoL, stupid me!!! I should've taken Monarchy instead).

So here we are. Economy is pretty bad, but with currency and CoL, I should be able to get it somehow back on track.

Here's a shot of the lands:



There's still some room to settle. Iron/jumbos and river/rice/jungle probably. But should I do this? economy is pretty bad...

Furthermore, my big concern is that Toku/Ragnar and Justinian are friendly towards each other. I'm afraid of getting dogpiled if I declare on one of them...

Should I turtle up towards gunpowder units, or should I continue razing and burning like crazy?

Oh, I also plan on spreading buddhism everywhere in case someone has the bad idea of building the AP.
Btw, the Mids are still not built! Do you reckon I might give it a shot?
 
Il be playing this on epic prince for sure. The start looks good. Lets see can i get my second prince win. Ivory is good for war elephats and rice in nice food. Lets see what that hut reveals to us. Hoping for some Nice tech or :gold:.
I think i will not go for an early rush but bit later heavy Keshik warfare would be great. Lets just hope shaka is not next to us with his impis :hide:
Agressive is great help and creatives :culture: boost is great to keep new captured cityes out of revolt. This game looks ready to be played. Gonna play some later today.
 
Well played up to 2000BC so heres my checkpoint.

Checkpoint 2: 2000BC

Spoiler :
Since some of you guys seem interested in initial build order I went worker, warrior *3, settler, worker, gran, warrior (started)

Tech went: Agr (hut pop!)> mining> BW> AH> Pot> masonary> archery (started)

I found in place. No reason to move.


My first hut pop.


I meet some neighbours. They seem very close. Best get going!






I place a city to capture the copper and the marble. With some farms workshops and watermills this could be an ok producton site, if some what food poor.


Some more AIs. A c@#t and a religious nut. Nice.




Ok so heres where the resourses are.


Heres where I'm thinking of putting some cities. CityA is my top priority. Should be an ok commerce city.


Glance. Already early religions are causing some tension! bad luck Wang. You've got a stupid name anyway!


Demo screen. Pretty average. Nice production but need more millitary!


So thats it so far might play more today but I might not!

Next segment is going to go myst> poly> priest (Oracle)> writing....

Gonna chop out the GW or at least try.

Switch to slavery need to be done to. Probably after the warrior is done.

I switched my EPs to Wang and Fred, so I can use spys to drop there cultural defences in war time. Guess who I want to nail? Well I just told you so you should know!



The save
 
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