Could you post the 4000bc save?
I am gong to hold off on saves until the modern era is complete. I have a few reasons for this, though one mainly is to keep the main assets of the WT in order. There’s nothing wrong with this in other threads of course, but I just want to keep the initial details streamlined and concise here.
Yes! Really Excited for this. BOO Cottages, they are only good for pillaging!
I don’t mind nuking them either. While a farm can be replaced in a single turn, you can wait centuries to rebuild a town
I don’t intend to underestimate your game, obsolete, but doesn’t the map size you have chosen kind of make the 8 cities limit meaningless?
The test specifically asked for a NORMAL size map.
Good thing you take care of your veterans! (ie the quechua garisonning the capital)
Yes, quite often I’ll be in the modern age with still the original warrior guarding my metropolis.
@obsoloete : i was really impressed by your 'without the mids' game, hope this one will be as interesting yet theres something : this time again you go on SSE/WE eco, since I hate wonders (as much as you hate lightbulbing i guess) could you one of this day post a game SSE without wonder spamming ?
The problem with that, is it just wouldn’t be, as you put it… INTERESTING. Though I still wouldn’t mind taking some old-school warmongering shots again. Just so much to do, and so little time.
I havent read most of your writeups, but isnt it your capital that drives most of your empire? If so, and you do it the same way again, isnt it still a wonderspam econ with CE or SE or whatever the other cities run being largely inconsequential insofar as a CE vs SE comparison is concerned?
And since you seem to be running state property, are you still getting your beakers from specialists post-SP, or building science instead?
Yes, the capital is worth MANY cities. However, it is more SE basted than CE. In fact, it is ZERO CE based, because the only cottage that I get is only by culture or military.
State property doesn’t effect specialists. I still have FREE specialists doing all their work, even if I chose not to run any extras because I’m too busy. I will often do a combo of building science & specialtist based science though.
Hot damn 1400 hammers?!? I play very similar to you, and the most ive ever had was around 1000. I usually opt for oxford in my capital though because with all those settled specialists and the fact that my capital usually accounts for like 80% of my research I just can't pass it up. Why do you always opt for IW instead? Do you have a science city with oxford in it?
Actually, I’m short on hammers there. If you didn’t notice it, the bottom left tile got hit by 100% nuclear-winter. It is pure desert with no output, and can never be improved. It is a purely dead tile. Also the hill next to it also got hit by the nuclear winter effect. However, as pointed out earlier, it looks a bit weird because that desert hill still has some interesting production going on. Well, yes the mine and some production output was removed by the effect, but the Levee in the capital can not be removed, this still gives it a +1 h, and the stream still gives a +1 g and with the golden age this causes an increase even further.
Also, it looks like there is a bug going on with the financial trait here. There should be 3 gold on that desert/fallout tile.
But I'd love to see someone play a more cottage intensive version of the same game and compare launch times. HC is a pretty good comparison too as both strategies are helped.
Comparing launch times between SE and CE is like comparing apples to oranges. The SE gives much better improvement in the early stages, which is IMPORTANT. It is VERY versatile. It also is very easy to fix. It is very SAFE…. For many reasons. Drafting in an emergency works superior, so does going on the offensive. You simply can’t throw all this out the window and base things on a space-ship launch date. The CE player isn’t going to have the same life-expectancy that an SE would, and this is the most important thing!
Now, let us just assume we were all naïve and decided to do just that. Then again it’s not so simple, because with a WE system you are ignoring RELATIVE time. This is a concept that probably 99% of players haven’t even learned yet. A person who is in a WE system, and launches in 2000 AD is really launching much, much earlier RELATIVE to another player using the AI’s poor system of cottage spamming. Do you understand why?
You probably don’t, so lets look at the liberalism race, same thing. Notice how the WE player can win easily on 1300 AD, at immortal, while the CE player is doomed before that date. Again, the WE player who hits liberalism on 1300 AD is in fact doing it MUCH quicker than the other guy, and this is why comparing timelines is like apples and oranges.
You have to understand, that taking WONDERS significantly cripples the AI in their teching, which cripples them in launching, and everything else. Just use some common sense and pick a bunch at random, and see how they would effect your AI who doesn’t get them.
Pyramids. - Slows their tech race significantly due to Rep.
The Great Wall. - All barbs now will focus on the AI, slowing them down even more (and allow you to focus on more wonders, slowing them down even further)
Taj Mahal. - One less golden age for the AI, and also slower Great person generation which leads to less lightbulbing.
Statue of Liberty. - This one should be obvious.
Internet. - Not a wonder.. But still it’s obvious you have a huge gain by prevent an AI from getting it.
Media Wonders. - Even the extra happiness resources are things that the AI doesn’t have, but you have it to your full advantage. Even if it doesn’t slow higher Ais down very much, it does give YOU an advantage in your own teching.
BTW, as you can see, some of these wonders remove early culture victories from your opponents which is another problem the WE player doesn’t have to worry about TOO MUCH.
Ohh hell, how did we leave out the Oracle? That’s a HUGE tech crippler.
Also note, that ALL wonders contribute PPPs, and each one you get MAKES A DIFFERENCE. That’s less great persons the AI can get, and less tech speed for them.
We could spend years on this, trying to quantify the true measure of relative timelines depending on all the scenarios, but I think I’ve made my point.
