Role Play Challenge: Charlemange the Blessed

Welcome to my next RPC game, Charlemange the Blessed. There RPC games are meant to be fun and education trying to demonstrate a specific strategy/economy while maintaining an entertaining angle using the leaders, whether in historical fashion or based on the game's personality for them

We have a tough RPC to followup with as Chairman Mao's Revised Plan was a huge success and appears to be the most popular yet! But here we have the perfect counter to the turtling Atheist, the benevolent defender of the faith.

Charlemange starts with two of the weaker techs in Mysticism and Hunting. The UU (Landsnekt) is a Pike with 100% versus Melee which is soso. The UB is the Rathus (courthouse) which reduces costs 75% and maybe the best UB in the game.

Charlemange's Rules

1) He must convert every city in the world to his state religion by the end of the game. This may be done peacefully or via the sword.

2) Once he adopts a religion, that must be his only religion for the game although it MUST be either Judaism, christianity, or Islam. He cannot found another religion. However, he may wisely weigh several options before actaully adopting the religion. He prefers it to be one he founds, but that is not required. He can only shrine his state religion.

3) He must win via diplomacy. Preferably by the AP although the UN is acceptible. This cannot conflict with rule #1 (He must spread the faith to every city). All other victory conditions are open for the AI to pursue though.

4) He can open borders with any AI EXCEPT those in theocracy and have a different state religion. If he cannot use missionaries, he must use the sowrd here.

5) Charlemange is tolerant of other religions, but is very protective of his people. So the following civics are not allowed

Free Religion (since he must stay in his state religion)
Mercantilism (he wants trade routes with others)
Slavery (He is a pious man and has no liking for this dirty business)
Nationhood (Because of his aversion to the Draft)
Police State (Unacceptible)

6) There is no restriction on wonder or GPs, although he should get the shrine for his religion.

7) Charlemange cannot refuse a request from a fellow member of the faith (except if it's against another faith member) or a former member (who get's out via FR).

Finally, no city razing is allowed (that option is turned on) under any circumstances. Even newly created cities that autoraze (inclusing barbs). If I inadvertantly do this, I must reload to correct the error.

Settings

Marathon Speed
Monarch difficulty
Pangea Map
Temperature climate, medium sea level.
Choose Religion

And our Blessed Leader



And the Start



Not so bad. Charles is one of the toughest leaders to start with, but I think the cows and jumbos offer us a little headstart.

I say we try for polytheism, then AH.

Build is scout/scout until the population hits 2, then a worker.

What do you all think?

Sounds like you have a plan, and I will be following along with interest.

My only comment at this stage is that you underrate the Landsknecht - it is a superb UU (one of the very best IMHO). Str 6 @100% vs Melee and 100% vs Mounted makes it a very strong unit in its era, being with these bonuses equivalent to both Macemen and Cuirassers, and cheap to boot.

This is also helped by the fact the Rahtaus is indeed a very strong UB, and again arguably the best in the game.

I tend to play unrestricted leaders in all my games and I find it very difficult to avoid playing as the mighty HRE.

Why not city razing?

I vote move the scout 1N then 1E to see more land. If nothing yucky or yummy appears I would settle in place

CivCorpse said:

I vote move the scout 1N then 1E to see more land. If nothing yucky or yummy appears I would settle in place

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I agree.

Btw, I laughed at the misspelling of Charlemagne.

"Oh no, I've got CHARLEMANGE! "

I would settle in place. Riverside cows and elephants plus all of those riverside hills would make a strong capital with decent potential as well depending on whether you farm or cottage the riverside grassland tiles.

After moving the scout in the 1st turn, I would send him to pop the goody hut 2 NW of your settler since you will have to wait until the scout is produced in your city or until the second border pop. I hate to lose a goody hut so close to my capital.

madscientist said:

Charlemange's Rules


2) Once he adopts a religion, that must be his only religion for the game although it MUST be either Judaism, christianity, or Islam. He cannot found another religion. However, he may wisely weigh several options before actaully adopting the religion. He prefers it to be one he founds, but that is not required. He can only shrine his state religion.

Click to expand...

If you were the first to polytheism, wouldn't you be violating rule number 2? So instead of researching polytheism (or researching it until it has 1 turn left, then switching to another), why not start with the worker techs, beeline Oracle and try and nab Christianity with the free tech? This way, you'll get the religion (although it's later) while building a solid infastructure and accumulating the Great Prophet points for the Church of Nativity shrine.

Backwards Logic said:

If you were the first to polytheism, wouldn't you be violating rule number 2? So instead of researching polytheism (or researching it until it has 1 turn left, then switching to another), why not start with the worker techs, beeline Oracle and try and nab Christianity with the free tech? This way, you'll get the religion (although it's later) while building a solid infastructure and accumulating the Great Prophet points for the Church of Nativity shrine.

Click to expand...

He's playing with choose religions option, so he can found any of the seven religions if he gets polytheism first.

BTW Madscientist, what is Charlemagne's view on espionage?

Espionage could be very handy in spreading your faith. As long as the AI has at least 1 city with your religion you can use the "influence religion" spy mission. If they're in theocracy that can make it much easier to spread your religion instead of gifting all the missionaries. Plus building a great wall is very fitting for a protective leader.

But as far as gifting missionaries goes, the AI will always use it. If it doesn't spread it's because it failed. There's always a chance a missionary will fail when there's at least 1 religion in a city. And the more religions present the harder it is for the missionary to succeed.



On another topic, i think you should have preselected the civs. How can you have a religious based game without Izzy being involved?


Are there any rules against declaring against people of your own religion?

We know you can declare on people of other religions. And since you want to win by diplomacy accepting capitulation as soon as it becomes available should be mandatory (especially with its link to vassalage). Taking or razing holy cities should be a top priority so the AI won't switch back to its founded religoin after you bribe your vassals to convert to the true faith.

Also I think Vassalage should be a required civic, as it is Charlemagne's favorite civic. And as a protective leader longbows are a priority anyway. Taking it even further, you can't use slavery, so maybe make serfdom required to? Just taking feudalism to the extreme. Tons of vassals, vassalage, and serfdom.
Maybe you should consider always having the leader's preferred civic in place in your future games?

[db]Perseforis;6675859 said:

Sounds like you have a plan, and I will be following along with interest.

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I think Mad has always a plan....hua...hua...hua (evil guy laugh)

im very intersted in what charly has to offer. in my games hes always the joker who always gets destroyed by me because i usually hate him so much!

never palyed with him myself as havent got round to it yet, so im ver interested to see how he fairs.

oh, and settle in place, looks decent enough.

espionage is mostly going to be used sonservatively. We want to save eps to force AIs into our religion. I think very limited tech stealing here. The Rathus and a CE or SE should suffice for an economy. Plus we should have the shrine.

We may declare on same religion AIs, but we better have a very good reason other than we want thier land.

As mentioned, we have select religion's on. One reason we want to take polytheism first.

Start looks intriguing. Anyone else think settling on the Eles would be a good move?

Food looks a bit sparse. I usually restart when I only have a plains cow as the only food resource. So I would move the scout 1N then 1SE to see what is hidden. If nothing settle the eles. If food settle in place.

Techs I would go agr/ah then mining, poly, masonry and mono. Place archery somewhere in there. Initial builds would be scout, worker, warrior and look to build SH somewhere in there.

Goes to download save to see but slaps wrist instead and will just follow madscientist through this one as well.

Good luck in this one

Oops missed the select religion so yep poly first.

You should consider settling on the elephants: elephants aren't a great resource to work, and the plains-elephant tile will give the 'plain hill' +1 production to the city without spending an extra turn. The new spot is coastal and riverside. Of course, it's a bit of a gamble that there is seafood and that there are no yummy resources in the NE that you will miss, but well... so I would say scout to the NE, if nothing yummy settle 1SW.

I'd probably settle in place, I always settle in place! Its does seems quite a food poor start, so if the scout reveals something it might be worth moving for it.

vanatteveldt said:

You should consider settling on the elephants: elephants aren't a great resource to work, and the plains-elephant tile will give the 'plain hill' +1 production to the city without spending an extra turn. The new spot is coastal and riverside. Of course, it's a bit of a gamble that there is seafood and that there are no yummy resources in the NE that you will miss, but well... so I would say scout to the NE, if nothing yummy settle 1SW.

Click to expand...

I agree! Jumbo is nice resource as a resource, but not as a tile. It would give you +1 hammer immediately, which is great+ chance for seafood + coastal start. Do you plan to go for Mono, if you fail with Poly? I think it makes sence. The Great Wall is on the way and you should go for this wonder, because you are imperialistic. It will give you ultra early missionaries, a thing that you deffinetly need. Also you should concider early 2nd city. You start with scout and you will probably pop some huts for gold to pay for maintenance. Also settlers are cheap for you. So:

research: Poly-AH-{Mining}-Masonry-Mono
build order: scouts and warriors(until pop2), worker, settler, TGW

I like to workshop my jumbos in BFC - if I have non outside BFC I'll keep one for the resourse.

In cast, SP and with al the tweaks thats 7 hammers I think!

Hm, settling on the Jumbos. A few items to discuss

1) Riverside jumbos get us 1 food, 3 hammers, 2 commerce. Better than a riverside mined grassland hill.
2) If we move we go from 5 riverside rgassland tiles to 3 grassland tiles. Plus we have at least 1 coastal tile, probably 4, and no assurances we get seafood.
3) Settling in place get's us a defensive bonus.
4) Both places allows levees.
5) Both spots give us 5 hills to work. Settling in place also get's us the Jumbos to work, but moving may open up even more minable hills.
6) Generally, the computer initial start gives a little more than one food and one luxury resource, so I say one of horse/copper/iron is in the BFC.
7) Settling on the jumbos opens up better trade routes, the harbor, lighthouse, and allows faster spread of the state religion post sailing.

With all that said, I am favoring settling in place. I know we can get 5 farms at least. Not the fastest growing captial but it's what we have

@ madscientist

Lack of food is why I advised moving the scout first to see if there is anything else. Although the hut is very tempting as well.

The other not mentioned thing is the immediate face. You'll need the wheel first before you get the bonus.

With the lack of resources showing there is likely something else in the BFC another reason not to move.

Soon find out anyway.

I question building 2 scouts first, I would at least make one of those a warrior mainly because from my dumb luck as soon as I have scouts in my build order, I pop scouts from huts like nobody's business and am left with scouts with nothing left to do after scouting all the territory. I like to have warriors poking around picking up XPs from animals, many times getting to woodsman II which leaves us with options like plucking workers from agressive AIs we know we will eventually war with and/or getting to the coveted woodsman III.
I look forward to following this new episode Mad....will make some popcorn and pull up a chair to read your first round tonight. Never played the 'Mange!