Role Play Challenge: Charlemagne the Blessed II

Welcome to the replay of the RPC game, Charlemange the Blessed. There RPC games are meant to be fun and education trying to demonstrate a specific strategy/economy while maintaining an entertaining angle using the leaders, whether in historical fashion or based on the game's personality for them

The first Charlemagne game was a loss as it turned into a Shaka military monster campaign even though we did infact convert teh world to christianity!

Charlemange starts with two of the weaker techs in Mysticism and Hunting. The UU (Landsnekt) is a Pike with 100% versus Melee which is soso. The UB is the Rathus (courthouse) which reduces costs 75% and maybe the best UB in the game.

Charlemange's Rules

1) He must convert every city in the world to christianity by the end of the game. This may be done preferably by peaceful but may be done via the sword.

2) Charlemagne may found other religions, but MUST found christianity, and that is the ONLY religion he can accept as a state religion. He can ONLY shrine Christianity, although he will tolerate other religions in his kingdom.

3) He must win via diplomacy. Preferably by the AP although the UN is acceptible. This cannot conflict with rule #1 (He must spread the faith to every city). All other victory conditions are open for the AI to pursue though.

4) He can open borders with any AI to spread missionaries. If he cannot use missionaries, he must use the sowrd here.

5) Charlemange is tolerant of other religions, but is very protective of his people. So the following civics are not allowed

Free Religion (since he must stay in his state religion)
Mercantilism (he wants trade routes with others)
Slavery (He is a pious man and has no liking for this dirty business)
Nationhood (Because of his aversion to the Draft)
Police State (Unacceptible)

6) There is no restriction on wonders or GPs, although he should get the shrine for his religion.

7) Charlemange cannot refuse a request from a fellow member of the faith (except if it's against another faith member) or a former member (who get's out via FR).

Finally, no city razing is allowed (that option is turned on) under any circumstances. Even newly created cities that autoraze (inclusing barbs). If I inadvertantly do this, I must reload to correct the error.

Settings

Marathon Speed
Monarch difficulty
2 Hemisphere Map
Temperature climate, medium sea level.
NO choose religion
Vassals are off to avoid issues with spreading christianity to other AIs vassals

And our Blessed Leader



And the Start



Not a bad start.

OK, this time arround I plan to forget founding a religion and take Christianity via a Prophet Bulb if possible.

So I think agriculture/AH to start followed by archery/mining/BW then Stonehenge/Oracle wonder combo for teh GPPs.

What do you all think!!!

I'm not sure if it is a good idea to beeline - curious to see how you plan to tech.

Capital isn't too great. 2 edibles, few hammers. I would definately consider moving towards the river.

In any case, here's a for good luck. So don't make me look bad by loosing! hahaha.

I'd move the scout one SW and the settler one S.

See what is there, and if there is nothing bad then settle one east of the original starting position.

So for this game, try and get a huge empire going. I would reccomend perhaps wiping out one or two of the other civs on the continent.

Also, it's gonna be a %#%#$ spreading Christianity overseas...

Actually, you should try and get more religions to prevent them from spreading. I'd go for Buddhism, then grab Judaism. Next, get Judaism to get Theology.

Rex it hard and fast and us you UB to haul your econmy back online.

Hey Mad, sorry to hear about the last RPC. Grandad said exactly what I was thinking with his UB - rex like mad and get friendly with a stupid aggressor and make him keep your true rivals at bay. I guess you wanted to do that with Shaka.

Good luck!

Hey Madscientist, would you consider maybe trying to get Theology through the Oracle? I think it would be a lot faster and safer than waiting to pop a prophet. It should give you a head start on the AP as well. Anyway, the prereqs for Theology are Monotheism and Writing.

Dogpiled by shaka in your last game. Hehe, that is what you get if you keep sending your attack dog to fight with other civs and he keeps getting bigger. Lets hope it will go better this time. Not the best start but not a bad one either. 2 food resources and at least 3 hills so production will be good. Popping theology with the oracle is pretty cool I guess. That will give you your religion and a super headstart on the AP especially since you are going to build stonehenge and the oracle. The other AI will have very little chance of an early prophet. Good luck mate.

Bad luck in the last game. This start looks pretty good with all of the forest for chopping.

I would send the scout 1 SE onto the grassland hill to see what is east of your settler. If there is nothing good to your east-settle in place. But I expect there will be something worth moving so your settler will either move 1E or 1SE to start your capital.

Depending on the research times and Worker production/tile improvement times, could you insert archery between Ag and AH?

I'd say a Key thing here is to make it a Diplomation win, since all cities will have Christianity, and you won't have an easy "enemy civ"

I'd go for a Priority (altered by terrain/neighbors)
Worker Techs/Archery/Oracle
CoL (Oracle)
Theology (Bulb) [Build AP]
Engineering
Feudalism

Pre-Engineering, REX peacefully and spread the Religion
Once Engineering Hits get complete control of your continent, Then tech for Optics, Liberalism->Astronomy, Rifling and Steel and get some Overseas Vassals

Krikkitone said:

I'd say a Key thing here is to make it a Diplomation win, since all cities will have Christianity, and you won't have an easy "enemy civ"

I'd go for a Priority (altered by terrain/neighbors)
Worker Techs/Archery/Oracle
CoL (Oracle)
Theology (Bulb) [Build AP]
Engineering
Feudalism

Pre-Engineering, REX peacefully and spread the Religion
Once Engineering Hits get complete control of your continent, Then tech for Optics, Liberalism->Astronomy, Rifling and Steel and get some Overseas Vassals

Click to expand...

A technicality, we have to win diplomatically. One of those domination, we vote ourselves world dictator is fine.

Also Vassals are turned off. Charlemagne wants access to all AIs, no hiding behind some big thug.

madscientist said:

A technicality, we have to win diplomatically. One of those domination, we vote ourselves world dictator is fine.

Also Vassals are turned off. Charlemagne wants access to all AIs, no hiding behind some big thug.

Click to expand...

If you turned off vassals then it's very unlikely you'll be able to get a diplo victory through military conquest. You can't vote yourself to a diplomatic victory if you have enough votes to vote yourself in. you need your vassal's votes.

BalbanesBeoulve said:

If you turned off vassals then it's very unlikely you'll be able to get a diplo victory through military conquest. You can't vote yourself to a diplomatic victory if you have enough votes to vote yourself in. you need your vassal's votes.

Click to expand...

Woops, I keep forgetting that aspect of the UN. Good you told me now, we definitely need some friends! This could get very interesting!

Technically you only need one friend... the rest can rot in hell

Charlemagne The Blessed II : Part I

As Charles the Great looks out across his future empire at the prospects of finding the true faith. What he finds are some other AIs he doesn't like much

But the first order of business, where to settle.

Our scout revealed no great land to the east. To the West looks like forrest, so we moved 1 spot to east to settle on the river for later levee and easier trade route via the river.



Build order for teh round went worker/scout/archer/archer

Yeah a short round, you will see why

Tech order went agriculture/archery/AH/partway through the wheel.

We also got a random event giving all archers free combat I. So we get combat I, CG I, Drill I for free in every archer!

One reason for the short rouns was the following



That is one annoying AI to deal with!

Then we meet another AI right after



Normally I do not mind Ramses, but not this game. He is a major threat to the AP race, and bulbing theology!!!!

And we meet another AI



Not sure how I feel about him. That appears to fill out the continent.

We did explore quite a bit of the land mass and we soon find



Paris on our doorstep. Well, remember all the debates when BTS was released. Is CHarlemagne French or German. I say he's French and should definitely have Paris rather than that upstart Napolean, what do you all say!!!

After teching AH we find



Horses in the BFC!!!!!

A view of Archeon at the save.



And a larger view of the land.



Note::: Ramses is just at the western esge of the screenshot, so we are definitely a little cramped here. Hell, we are alot cramped or will be.

SO I saved here because I am in a bit of a difficult situation.

1) Do we chariot rush Napolean real fast?

2) Do we rush after stonehenge (36 turns) to start the GPPs, sollowed by oracle. By teching mining/BW without starting a new city we MAY be able to get both done. But remember we need priesthood first!!!

3) Rules state we MUST found christianity. This is a problem with Ramses who can spit out Great Prophets real fast with his UB, and thus bulb theology.

4) We can rush both Napolean and Ramses, eliminating the duel threat.

And do note, Hinduism has NOT been found yet (2590 BC)!!!

Well don't rush Egypt... he may have war chariots! As far as napolean, he is okay. You are a bit stuffed, so it may be wise to block off relations with Egypt and France ie. Don't let them be pleased with each other and attack france early. Egypt will probably build a lot of wonders and would be better later on?

1) Yes
2) No, REX first, prioritize the Oracle, over Stonenge.. if we are feeling pushed on Theology use the Oracle to get it.

3) see above, Go Wheel, Mining, BW, Poly, Priest, Writing, Masonry, Monotheism

4) Sounds like a good idea (although not if ramses has his own horses) but definitely take Paris

Since Hindu has not been founded yet you have some time, reconsider when Judaism has been founded.

Hi madscientist,

First thanks for all these RPC games you have made, i have learned a lot reading them (especially with mao revised plan).

I usually play on Noble difficulty ( especially for the score, 150K with boudica of rome), but i can handle a prince game without too much efforts.

About your next move, i think all the possibilities you have stated are relevant, but in my opinion building Stonehendge AND the Oracle can be a little tricky against Ramesses (who is industrious) especially on Monarch, and maybe he has some stone or marble.

Napoleon can be a real pain in the *** if you spare him on early game, plus he has elephant...

My advice would be to attack both Napoleon and Ramesses and forget about the Oracle and Stonehendge, or you can just attack Napoleon and try to choprush the Oracle to get Theology.

I think that if you try to build both wonders and stay peaceful, you'll be a target of choice for Napoleon.

And about the thing on Charlemagne who is French, i would say that he is more a German/French guy, and Firaxis made a good choice by giving him a new civ.
But in France when you learn about Charlemagne, he is definitely French and you learn also that he beelined towards Education ( btw there's a french song about this ).

An another thought about Napoleon, he's considered in France as the greatest french ruler ever, but personally i think he was to greedy and crashed his empire's economy, he didn't build enough courthouses .

You can either build Stonehenge, or do an early rush, but not the both. Concidering that Ramesess is arround, maybe even now is too late for Stonehenge. I'd go for archery rush instead of chariot. Build baracks and 7-8 archers with cover. 1-2 first strikes + 10% strength + 25% against archery units is much better, than chariot with combat1 or flanking1. Even if Nappy has axemen, archers still can attack, while chariots are dead meat, against spears. Leave them unpromoted and promote them with cover, or shock, depends on what you will find in Paris.

Sleepingghost said:

Hi madscientist,

First thanks for all these RPC games you have made, i have learned a lot reading them (especially with mao revised plan).

I usually play on Noble difficulty ( especially for the score, 150K with boudica of rome), but i can handle a prince game without too much efforts.

About your next move, i think all the possibilities you have stated are relevant, but in my opinion building Stonehendge AND the Oracle can be a little tricky against Ramesses (who is industrious) especially on Monarch, and maybe he has some stone or marble.

Napoleon can be a real pain in the *** if you spare him on early game, plus he has elephant...

My advice would be to attack both Napoleon and Ramesses and forget about the Oracle and Stonehendge, or you can just attack Napoleon and try to choprush the Oracle to get Theology.

I think that if you try to build both wonders and stay peaceful, you'll be a target of choice for Napoleon.

And about the thing on Charlemagne who is French, i would say that he is more a German/French guy, and Firaxis made a good choice by giving him a new civ.
But in France when you learn about Charlemagne, he is definitely French and you learn also that he beelined towards Education ( btw there's a french song about this ).

An another thought about Napoleon, he's considered in France as the greatest french ruler ever, but personally i think he was to greedy and crashed his empire's economy, he didn't build enough courthouses .

Click to expand...

Thanks for following the games annd welcome to the forums!

So it's g ood thing to absorb Paris into the HRE. WE do want to be historically accurate!!!

I have the same issue with American leaders. Most think Lincoln was the greatest president. While he kept the union intact and eventually eliminated slavery, the US was plunged into a disasterous civil war where we still have issues from that time, plus he never ran the country in peace only war. I much more admire Washington who did something not many people ever did in history, he walked away from Power TWICE for the good of his country. That more than the constitution or Declaraion of Independence led America to Democracy.

Now regarding the RPC, I like Sem's idea of inclusing archers in the rush!!! I was toying with the idea but I was waiting to see if anyone actually suggested it!