Dual-phase Tech Tree Expansion

[tyranny12]

Tyranny's Dual-phase Tech Tree Expansion
BasicTree Version - 0.5
ExpTree Version - Unreleased

Purpose
The purpose of this mod is to significantly rework and rebalance the FfH tech tree, with the goals of increasing tech tree length and revitalizing the less-used portions of the tree through integration of existing lines and more expansive prerequisites for the techs. It is designed to reduce the focus on specialization and provide for a more balanced game. Additionally, it attempts to reduce the early game wait, especially on all-forest starts.

Basically, while I love FfH, I want a little more authentic build and develop a Civilization empire feel in the midgame (=

A side effect of this mod may be that the AI has a greater chance, since it doesn't typically do so well on the specialization route that FfH vanilla is a proponent of.

Dual-Phase
This is a dual-phase mod. I will be published and maintaining two variants:
-BasicTree, a minimalist attempt which attempts to accomplish the above goals without adding any additional techs or units.
-ExpTree, currently my ongoing focus, adding in a significant number of the other early-game techs and units (spearmen, alphabet, etc) to really make the empire-building and unit choices stand out. No more one melee, one archer, one horseman choices. Also I intend to try to pull the late game tech tree a little bit closer to pinnacle techs - we'll see if ti works.

Further, since all components of this mod outside of the tech tree itself are modular, you can pick and choose if you don't like something.

Compatibility
This modmod is semi-modular. All current components of the mod are modular, except for the tech-tree changes themself - primarily tech location, cost, and prereqs.

No known incompatibilities exist with FfH BUG.

Each version comes with presupported XML files for vanilla FfH and FfH with Fall Further - just pick the proper directory.

No known conflicts yet with the modular sections or with XienWolf's Modular Mod files. Except for his Improvements ModMod - this has not been tested, and probably conflicts.

Installation
Installation:
To install this mod, choose the folder 'BTree 0.51 - Fall Further' or BTree 0.51 - Vanilla' depending on whether or not you are running Fall Further. Then copy the 'Assets' folder over to your main Fall from Heaven 031e folder. replacing the existing Assets folder.
You're installed!

Changelog - BasicTree - Summary

Spoiler:

Version 0.51
Tweaked initial tech costs up around 20%
Moved chopping and workshops down a tech, increased mining cost to counterbalance
Tweaked down Lumbermills
Squashed a bug or two

Version 0.5 - first public release

• Rearranged the technology tree and prerequisities with the goal streamlining play, increasing use of other trees, and reducing 'beeline for the best unit' gameplay. Merged archery/military and tied mobility closer to economy
• Lowered initial tech costs by 30-45%, second tier by 10%
• Reduced archery cost by 33% and archer cost by 25%
• Tweaked other technology costs to balance out specific areas and make each line more useful
• Provided economic incentives to lesser-used technology lines
• Made water/wind/lumbermills available earlier and provided bonuses to them with higher tier technologies

Spoiler:

Changelog - BasicTree - Detail
Version 0.51

Taxation - Fixed bug where Money Changer granted +1 Food
Fiefdoms - Removed production bonus from Lumbermills
Fiefdoms - Changed Windmills bonus to Fiefdoms from Engineering
Construction - Removed production bonus from Lumbermills
Bronze Working - Added Workshops; removed from Smelting
Construction - Added remove Jungle; removed from Sanitation
Mining - Added Chop Forests; removed from Bronze Working
Mining - Increased cost to 240 from 180
Agriculture - Increased cost to 100 from 80
Exploration - Increased cost to 78 from 60
Crafting - Increased cost to 90 from 70
Ancient Chants - Increased cost to 85 from 65
Fishing - Increased cost to 100 from 80
Mysticism - Reduced cost to 170 from 180


Version 0.5 - first public release
Agriculture - Cost reduced to 80
Agriculture - Removed Agriculture Civic
Ancient Chants - Cost reduced to 65
Animal Husbandry - Cost reduced to 180
Animal Husbandry - Prereqs OR Hunting, Agriculture
Animal Husbandry - Subdue Animal Removed
Animal Mastery - Cost raised to 3600
Archery - Changed Archer Unit Class Cost to 45, Javelin Thrower to 70 (-15, -20 respectively)
Archery - Cost reduced to 200
Archery - Prereq changed to Exploration, removed Hunting prereq
Armored Cavalry - Cost reduced to 4800
Armored Cavalry - Prereqs to Iron Working, Feudalism; Removed Warhorses
Armored Cavalry - Renamed to 'Fiefdoms'
Armored Cavalry (Fiefdoms) - Grant +1 commerce to villages, +2 to towns; +1 production to towns
Armored Cavalry (Fiefdoms) - Knight Unit Class - Requires Armored Cavalry, Warhorses
Armored Cavalry (Fiefdoms) - Grants +1 Production, +1 Commerce to Lumbermills
Astronomy - Cost reduced to 1400
Astronomy - Prereq to Optics, Construction, Cartography
Blasting Powder - Prereqs to AND Iron Working; OR Medicine, Engineering
Bowyers - Cost reduced to 1600
Bowyers - Prereq changed to Warfare, Bronze Working; removed Archery prereq
Calendar - Added Agriculture Civic
Calendar - Prereq changed to Oral Tradition; Removed Agriculture
Cartography - Cost reduced to 160
Code of Laws - Prereq changed to Writing; removed Oral Tradition
Construction - Cost raised to 650
Construction - Grants +1 Production to Lumbermils
Construction - Prereq changed to be Mathematics, Masonry
Crafting - Cost reduced to 70
Currency - Prereq changed to Mathematics; removed Code of Laws
Divination - Prereq to OR Knowledge of the Ether, Priesthood
Divine Essence - Cost reduced to 7000
Drama - Prereq to Calendar, Festivals; removed Oral Tradition
Education - Renamed to 'Oral Tradition'
Engineering - Grants +1 Food, +1 Commerce to Windmills
Engineering - Grants +1 Production, +1 Commerce to Watermills
Engineering - Removed Watermills
Engineering - Removed Windmills
Engineering - Removed the Great Engineer
Exploration - cost reduced to 60
Fanaticism - Prereq changed to Priesthood, Feudalism; removed Code of Laws
Festivals - Cost reduced to 170
Festivals - Prereq to Agriculture; removed Calendar
Feudalism - Cost reduced to 1000
Fishing - Cost reduced to 80
Future Tech - Renamed to 'Further Enlightenment'
Guilds - Grants +2 Production to Workshops (from +1)
Guilds - Shadow Unit Class- Added Poisons Requirement
Honor - Prereqs changed to Code of Laws, Way of the Wise; removed Trade
Horseback Riding - Cost reduced to 270
Hunting - Cost reduced to 270
Hunting - Hunting Lodge - Added +1 Food
Masonry - Cost reduced to 160
Mathematics - Added Windmills
Mathematics - Cost reduced to 400
Mathematics - Prereqs to AND Philosophy, OR Warfare, Writing
Mercantilism - Prereqs to Trade, Guilds
Military Strategy - Cost raised to 1000
Miltiary Strategy - Prereq changed to Bowyers, Philosophy; removed Warfare prereq
Mining - Cost reduced to 180
Mithril Working - Cost reduced to 5000
Mysticism - Cost reduced to 180
Necromancy - Prereq to OR Knowledge of the Ether, Priesthood
Omniscience - Prereqs to be AND Strength of Will, Pass Through the Ether, Commune with Nature; Removed OR requirement
Optics - Prereq to Bronze Working, Sailing
Poisons - Cost reduced to 600
Precision - Cost reduced to 3200
Precision - Grants +2 Food to Camps
Precision - Prereq changed to Military Strategy; removed Bowyers prereq
Sailing - Cost reduced to 340
Smelting - Prereq to Bronze Working, Writing
Sorcery - Prereqs to AND Knowledge of the Ether, OR Alter/Div/Necro/Elemen
Stirrups - Renamed to 'Leather Working'
Stirrups - Cost reduced to 900
Stirrups (Leather Working) - Adds +1 Trade Routes
Stirrups (Leather Working) - Horse Archer Unit Class - Requires Stirrups, Horseback Riding, Warfare
Stirrups (Leather Working) - Prereq changed to Tracking (Woodcraft); removed Trade
Stirrups (Leather Working) - Enables Mobility II; Removed Mobility II opportunity from Recon Units
Taxation - Money Changer - Cost reduced to 200
Taxation - Prereq changed to Currency, Feudalism; removed Mathematics
Tracking - Renamed to 'Woodcraft'
Tracking - Subdue Animal Added
Tracking - Cost reduced to 350
Tracking (Woodcraft) - Prereqs to Archery, Hunting
Trade - Prereqs to AND Writing/Horseback, OR Cartography/Sailing
Trade - Set non-tradable
Warfare - Added Watermills
Warfare - Prereq changed to Archery/Education; removed Bronze Working prereq
Warfare - Cost raised to 400
Warhorses - Prereqs to Leather Working, Horseback Riding
Writing - Cost reduced to 350
Writing - Prereq changed to be an OR between Oral Tradition, Animal Husbandry

Maintenance
I will actively maintain both variants of these mods with FfH and Fall Further updates. If any other compatibility questions are raised, I will see what I can do. I expect that BasicTree will enter a maintenance cycle as soon as the kinks and input is worked out.

One caveat: I travel 50% for work, 3 weeks at a time. I'll bring the files with me when I go, but I will be unable to test my changes while on the road. So that, my friends, will be up to you when I am travelling. I'll post any betas in the following posts if that happens.

Comments
Your input is very welcome. I tried to take my own experiences and the experiences posted on this forum in any number of locations in making the design decisions I made, but I am bound to have missed some glaring balance issue somewhere (like the Shadowrider I found at the last minute with almost no non-religion pre-reqs, one tech off Feudalism.) So feedback is much appreciated. On balance, techs, new changes, pre/post reqs, or requests for compatibility.

Hope you enjoy!

[tyranny12]

I apologize for the overlap of lines on Oral Tradition - no matter where I moved it, the lines followed...

BasicTree Image

Spoiler:

[tyranny12]

Any items on this list are welcome to discussion.

Pending Changes - Basic

• Revise initial tech costs up by a factor of 20% or so - make the jump less severe
• Move chopping down one tech (jungle/forest)
• Change Oral Tradition graphic
• Flesh out Civilopedia entries for Fiefdoms/Leather Working/etc

[tyranny12]

Cause I think I forgot a reason.

[tyranny12]

Everything looks good, but I am still testing it with some of those other mods, so if anything comes up, let me know.

I'm currently playing it with FfH BUG, Fall Further, Modular Mod, and some other modular tweaks I have built in, including some of Tarqulene's stuff. No problems so far.

[xienwolf]

Things I forgot to mention:

Modular things seem to be a tad buggy for Vista users, so you might change your mind on being semi-modular if that proves an issue for many of the people interested in using the mod.

But the main thing I wasnted to mention was that you might be able to make modules to UNDO your changes. It is an idea I have been toying with for a while since there are quite a few things I would like to do which cannot be done in a Module, but I would like to keep myself with just a single thread/package to update. You just create modules which undo your changes and leave them in a .zip file outside of the Assets folder with a readme on how to use them to "blot out" changes.


Anyway, lots of luck with this, it sounds pretty nice and I can't wait to see phase 2

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I ditched my Improvements Module in favor of letting Mailbox run his. Seemed better fleshed out to me

[Vehem]

Looks really interesting and well designed - nice work

[Demus]

been looking through your tech-tree, and overall it looks quite nice. Just 2 questions though:
why does medicine allow blasting powder?
where have the knights gone? this could be due to you using a fall further based tree though

[tyranny12]

@demus:
Hrm. Looking at the picture, I don't see them either.

They're there, they still require armored cavalry (fiefdoms) and warhorses. The icons aren't showing up, obviously, so I'll test this as soon as I boot back up into XP.

The goal is to make fiefdoms allow things like armored cavalry while providing an economic benefit. In the second phase, it will also allow mid-high tier horse unti called 'dragoons'. In both cases, the units themselves have a requirements for warhorses (or something similiar) to ensure that you don't get them too soon.

For medicine allowing blasting powder, my thinking was that the various chemicals and potions used in a high-fantasy situation could easily become explosive, and then put to 'good' use. This is mainly my attempt to reduce the needed focus on engineering, and medicine has always seemed to me to be a low-priority tech. Does it seem a stretch?

Originally Posted by Demus

been looking through your tech-tree, and overall it looks quite nice. Just 2 questions though:
why does medicine allow blasting powder?
where have the knights gone? this could be due to you using a fall further based tree though

@xienwolf:
The Vista buggy modular loading thing is why I'm dual-booting - and other compatibility reasons. But I was lucky, I was building my first new rig in years when found out about modular mods. But you're right - some people don't have that option, and XP will be harder to find come July-ish. It shouldn't be hard to - I maintain my files in a non-modular format right now and port them to modular format for the release. This way it plays nice with other mods.

UNDO - hrm. Well I changed three things that can't be undone by deleting a folder... Prereqs, Tech Costs, and X/Y positions. An undo module for tech costs... or a modifier for the initial costs. I like the idea!

Originally Posted by xienwolf

Modular things seem to be a tad buggy for Vista users, so you might change your mind on being semi-modular if that proves an issue for many of the people interested in using the mod.

But the main thing I wasnted to mention was that you might be able to make modules to UNDO your changes. It is an idea I have been toying with for a while since there are quite a few things I would like to do which cannot be done in a Module, but I would like to keep myself with just a single thread/package to update. You just create modules which undo your changes and leave them in a .zip file outside of the Assets folder with a readme on how to use them to "blot out" changes.

[tyranny12]

The knights are there and properly set up in my modules. However, my screenshot was taken when I was testing some third-party modules... and they tinkered with the knight and removed it.

I loaded up a game without said module, and all was good, and there were knights.

Let me know if you install it and see different, but I'll be surprised.

[xienwolf]

Well, it isn't so much undo the feature by deleting a folder, but by adding a folder back in. You basically create a module to turn your mod back to vanilla FfH, then just don't use it That way the option still exists for someone who doesn't do programming junk to just move a folder to where you tell them to move it and block a change you made (at least mostly).


Of course, you still run into the question about all the "invisible" tags and not knowing if they work right with Modular stuff...

[tyranny12]

Originally Posted by xienwolf

Well, it isn't so much undo the feature by deleting a folder, but by adding a folder back in. You basically create a module to turn your mod back to vanilla FfH, then just don't use it That way the option still exists for someone who doesn't do programming junk to just move a folder to where you tell them to move it and block a change you made (at least mostly).


Of course, you still run into the question about all the "invisible" tags and not knowing if they work right with Modular stuff...

Yea... that's why I can't undo the entire thing - I don't know if it would work. But I can do the tech costs as a modular thing, and write a simple batch script to to folder copy/move operations for the main mod - I mean, I change a grand total of one file in a non-modular fashion, right now (=

Woodelf, if you're reading this, how have your experiences with modular stuff on vista been lately?

[Shakiko]

Just tried a game playing FFH 031e vanilla with your modcomp.

Everything goes fine so far, it's just that camps upgrade to villages in 1 turn as soon as they get worked by the city
Already tried checking the civ4improvementinfos.xml, but found no "improve-to-town"-tag there. Any ideas ?

[tyranny12]

Extremely odd - I came home for lunch and just pulled the files, and I see nothing. The behavior sounds like a modular loading issue - but Mailbox uses the same files modularly successfully.

I'll see if I can replicate it in a game tonight.

Originally Posted by Shakiko

Just tried a game playing FFH 031e vanilla with your modcomp.

Everything goes fine so far, it's just that camps upgrade to villages in 1 turn as soon as they get worked by the city
Already tried checking the civ4improvementinfos.xml, but found no "improve-to-town"-tag there. Any ideas ?

[tyranny12]

Originally Posted by tyranny12

Extremely odd - I came home for lunch and just pulled the files, and I see nothing. The behavior sounds like a modular loading issue - but Mailbox uses the same files modularly successfully.

I'll see if I can replicate it in a game tonight.

Just ran a quick WB test - my camp did not upgrade. Is my mod (Basic Tree) the only one? Are you running Vista or XP?

If Vista, this may be a modular thing I need to ferret out. Have you tried Mailbox's module by any chance?

[Swodhawk]

Although I have no time for now to indulge in a good game, rest assured that I shall follow this mod's development with an utterly keen eye.

Combined with Xienwolf's ModMod, this should deliver an even more enjoyable FFH

[Mailbox]

I just looked over your files and for the improvements to work in a modular setting, you have to include the entire ImprovementInfos file. It's very strange but that's the only way to get it to work.

[Shakiko]

Originally Posted by tyranny12

Just ran a quick WB test - my camp did not upgrade. Is my mod (Basic Tree) the only one? Are you running Vista or XP?

If Vista, this may be a modular thing I need to ferret out. Have you tried Mailbox's module by any chance?

Running Xp - never had problems with improvements behaving that way when trying Mailbox' modules or Xienwolf's.

At first, I was thinking it might have been the map or some strange error, but no matter which mapgenerator I used, it still showed "will upgrade in 0 turns" when hovering over the build-camp-option in the WB.

I got rid of that just by copy&pasting the Camp-infos from your Civ4improvementinfo.xml into the original one of ffh2 031e.

Strangely no other improvement seems to be affected either, thus I'm out of ideas...
(but as soon as I revert back to the original versions of your and ffh's improvement.xml the error comes back )


-----------------------

About balancing:
I really like your idea to add some :Food: to "hunting-buildings" like the lodge and the general streamlining of the tree
Just 2 questions:

Any reason to give money changer +1 food ?
Compared to the tax office it costs the same but is already superior b/c it gives no angry citizens AND allows you to add a merchant specialist.
Prolly the +1 should have gone to the tax office instead to avoid redundancy ?


Any particular reason to give Windmills even more food (instead of hammers) with engineering ? Engineering more likely sounds like improving the or commerce of windmills for me.

[tyranny12]

Mailbox's answer above hits the nail on the head for me - he said he needed to include the entire 'ImprovementInfos' file - essentially making it non-modular. Coupled with what I've learned from Xienwolf, that means its a field that's not behaving properly in a modular fashion, and transposing 'upgrades to town' into the camp entry in your original improvement info.

For the Money Changer... thanks! You found where the last minute change I made to the hunting lodge went! My first test run of the hunting lodge improvement showed that my food addition didn't take... I go back, and it wasn't there. I'd been modding for hours at that point, and figured I forgot to save... turns out I added the food to the Money Changer.

I upgraded the improvements and made them earlier for two reasons - first, to get people to use them, and second, to make them useful like in Civ4. Both lumbermills and watermills are production heavy. Windmills were typically used to grind grain, and the vanilla Civ4 agrees with this, so I went along the grain/food route.

I'm about to retweak those:

Spoiler:

• Switch engineering and fiefdom's benefits for lumber and windmills.
• Remove lumbermill bonus production from engineering, at least

Even then... lumbermill with construction/fiefdoms, no river, is +2 hammers, +1 from forest. That's a 2/3/1 grassland, 1/4/1 plains, or 5/1 plains hill... a mine/plains hill only provides 4 until you get blasting powder. Yep... that convinced me, I'm removing the construction bonus as well. Apparently not *all* the resources needed tweaking, and it'll still have +1 commerce at fiefdoms, and the usual river bonus that mines lack.

I'll push out an update tonight hopefully. I've got some tweaking to do.

Originally Posted by Shakiko

Running Xp - never had problems with improvements behaving that way when trying Mailbox' modules or Xienwolf's.

At first, I was thinking it might have been the map or some strange error, but no matter which mapgenerator I used, it still showed "will upgrade in 0 turns" when hovering over the build-camp-option in the WB.

I got rid of that just by copy&pasting the Camp-infos from your Civ4improvementinfo.xml into the original one of ffh2 031e.

Strangely no other improvement seems to be affected either, thus I'm out of ideas...
(but as soon as I revert back to the original versions of your and ffh's improvement.xml the error comes back )


-----------------------

About balancing:
I really like your idea to add some :Food: to "hunting-buildings" like the lodge and the general streamlining of the tree
Just 2 questions:

Any reason to give money changer +1 food ?
Compared to the tax office it costs the same but is already superior b/c it gives no angry citizens AND allows you to add a merchant specialist.
Prolly the +1 should have gone to the tax office instead to avoid redundancy ?


Any particular reason to give Windmills even more food (instead of hammers) with engineering ? Engineering more likely sounds like improving the or commerce of windmills for me.

[tyranny12]

Attached below are the two replacement XML documents - didn't have time for much else. Please let me know if the Improvements file fixes the mysterious upgrades - that'll let me know if it works as a 'module' even if a pointless use of a module (full file update.)

Then I can bundle it together hopefully tomorrow with more of an update.