Eporite Chaeonion Agema

dude your creativity has exploded since your skinning days!

So... were the Epeiros inspired by the Roman legions, or vice-versa?
Nice looking unit there, I think it would make a good first appearance as a Roman spearman for those among us who keep the game as basic as it is.

GeoModder said:

So... were the Epeiros inspired by the Roman legions, or vice-versa?
Nice looking unit there, I think it would make a good first appearance as a Roman spearman for those among us who keep the game as basic as it is.

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Neither. The reason why the model itself looks so similar to the Praetorian model is because it is the Praetorian model! Its the closest base model to the body shape I wanted (plus it is soooooo much easier to skin!) These units were inspired by the Macedonian's to the east not by the Romans (although Pyrrhus did fight the Romans for several years).

Also your reference to the Roman legions is way outside the time frame for the kingdom of Epeiros. By the time the Roman legionary came about the Romans had already conquered Greece. The Attic style helmet was an evolution of the Thrakian Helmet and Celtic Montefortino helmets (which the Romans adopted). His armor is poorly represented in the pictures, but is more like a Linothorax armor than Lorica Segmentata (plus the fact that the LS was not used for nearly 150 years after these guy were long gone.

Ekmek said:

dude your creativity has exploded since your skinning days!

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You do know that this is ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!! You should have never taught me blender!!!!

It is very beautiful Aranor! I'm sure it was worth putting your sanity on line!

But seriously, I like the shield texture! And the spear! Personally, I'm starting to despise the oddly sized spears that shipped with the game.

Thanks.

Couldn't agree more about the spears. I'm editing another units now in blender and will edit the spearhead to be different to the standard spear. Should look pretty good.

First off: another great addition.

Aranor said:

Also your reference to the Roman legions is way outside the time frame for the kingdom of Epeiros. By the time the Roman legionary came about the Romans had already conquered Greece. The Attic style helmet was an evolution of the Thrakian Helmet and Celtic Montefortino helmets (which the Romans adopted). His armor is poorly represented in the pictures, but is more like a Linothorax armor than Lorica Segmentata (plus the fact that the LS was not used for nearly 150 years after these guy were long gone.

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Second: I like your explanation as it adds greatly to the appreciation of the unit.

But there are two things that leave me puzzled. The Romans conquered Greece with no legion(arie)s? The legion(arie)s did evolve over time, as I'm sure you know.

Also you keep referring to phalangites (analogue to legionaries?), not hoplites. Why is that?

JEELEN said:

First off: another great addition.



Second: I like your explanation as it adds greatly to the appreciation of the unit.

But there are two things that leave me puzzled. The Romans conquered Greece with no legion(arie)s? The legion(arie)s did evolve over time, as I'm sure you know.

Also you keep referring to phalangites (analogue to legionaries?), not hoplites. Why is that?

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First off, thanks for the compliments.

I refer to these men as Phalangites as that is what they were. Hoplites fight in a similar style but with an over hand thrusting motion. Phalangites are a Macedonian invention, created by Phillip II. They fight with a 13- 21 ft long pike in a phalanx formation, thrusting the spear in an under hand motion. After the death of Alexander the tactic was prooven to be a battle winner and many of the Hellenic kingdoms that may not have had access to the Argyraspides or Pezhetairoi troops of Alexander's army adopted the tactic in their own armies as is evidenced by the Eporites.

You are correct in the assertion that Roman Legionaries evolved over time. Pressures from the need to have an ever more expanding and professional army forced Rome to adopt the reforms proposed by Giaus Marius ( the advent of the Legionary as it were). The point that I was making to Geomodder however is that the Legionary you see in say Rome Total war or even in CIV ( as the Praetorian) did not come about until about 14AD when the Lorica Segmentata came into full use, however many Roman line soldiers preferred the the older Lorica Hatmata chain mail armor they had worn previously as it was easier to maintain.

Aranor, I'm afraid you lost me with your explanation on the ethnic origins of the model.

Not me: I like Aranor's explanations just fine (as with the Hypaspistai).

OK short version is: Agema = Hellenic (Greek) Legion= Rome. Two similar but different cultures.

Thanks, but I knew that much.
It 'only' gets shady with me on the cultures inbetween the Latins and the Peleponnesos peninsula... which is alot of territory, I know.

Is there anything specific that you didn't understand in my explanation? Maybe I can try to explain that part better.

No worries mate. It's just that I can't discern all those different kingdoms: Epirus, Thrace, Illuryum,... the list seems endless when taken the different tribes or cities into account too.

Get a look at it :

Aranor said:

These units were inspired by the Macedonian's to the east not by the Romans (although Pyrrhus did fight the Romans for several years).

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thats where the expression Pyrrhic victory comes from?

Yes. I forget the name of the battle, (wasnt it Cynoscephalae?), Phyrrhus won, but lost more men than the Romans.

Actually it was the Battle of Asculum.

Does anyone know which .kfm to use with this?

Ther's only three (four if you count the papal pikeman) that it could be.

Spearman
Phalanx
Pikeman
Papal Pikeman