JFC-2: Genghis Pope

Jet

No, no, please. Please.
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
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JFC-2: Genghis Pope

* BTS 3.13 with Rhye's and Fall of Civilization 1.181 (download)
* Mongolia, Monarch
* 3000 BC start
* we must own the Apostolic Palace and win by Apostolic Palace vote
* we may gift missionaries, but only when we have open borders (no caravel tricks)
* 10-turn turnsets: 24 hours for got it, then 48 for save
* you may play your turnset the way you like; you don't have to get a consensus first
* please explain the choices you make in your turnset
* please be especially sure to document diplomatic decisions and events in enough detail


Roster - open to all, just be aware that RFC uses a huge and slow map.

Jet
Úmarth
Legendre
AnotherPacifist
this slot is open

By the time Mongolia starts, the Apostolic Palace will have been built, usually near the Mediterranean. If it gets destroyed before we have a chance to acquire it, we'll have to restart. I don't know how hard this game will be. I think Mongolia is one of the easier civs overall, but what could make it harder is the large number of AIs, their low base attitude and reluctance to open borders, the tendency for coalitions and world wars, and any stability problems that may arise from expansion, warfare, or returning captured cities.
 
Can I outline a general strategy?

1. Get 2/3 UHV (Control China, raze 7 cities but not control the territory required for 3/3 UHV). Need a really good start which doesn't have a super-advanced China.
2. Get Shwedagon Paya or Liberalism ASAP and run free religion until the last moment (after we've converted one city of every civ to the AP religion)
3. Control as many shrines as possible (for the money)--will likely have Taoism and Confucianism.
4. Catch up in science quickly (may need a smaller empire first)
5. Hope that the AP is in China or India.
 
WARNING: first person pronouns may be interpreted as morally and legally binding signups

Sure, sign me up. Give us a good start though. :p
 
I'd be interesting in playing, but I've never completed a entire game using RFC. A SG using it though would give me a good chance to learn :).

Also, I won't be able to start until Sunday afternoon. Please let me know if that's all right.
 
I randomized the order of the roster, putting Mitchifier last. I came up first.

I vetoed the first roll, although it was very interesting in that the AP was built by Japan. I thought that would make it too much of a turtling game, without enough foreign entanglement. Also, China had already collapsed, making the start too easy.



The AP has been built recently, under Christianity. Jerusalem was probably razed and it looks like there are a variety of religions extant, which I think will be fun.

1. Turn 210 - To start, I just wanted to take over China and see what we can learn and what relationships we can establish. I saw that China had Shenyang, which is in our flip zone in Manchuria. Moving onto a hill, I saw Pikemen in Baotou. I thought Beijing might have a Castle, or be able to whip one. He was in HR/Bureau/Slavery. So I thought we might need to build some siege and rather than encourage him to build units while we did so, I did not declare, and switched to Serfdom as well as HR + Vassalage to kickstart Siberia. Moved NE to get both Sheep for our capital.

2. Turn 211 - settled Ulaan Ude, started a Worker (we'll get some, but not enough), and set research to Engineering for road movement and Trebs. Two settlers are headed NE and two NW.

Shenyang and Baotou flipped and China declared.

Persia had Seoul. :) Darius was Hindu and Pleased at +1 for wise civics. Signed OB. He had Mono, Sailing, Alpha, and redlined Engineering to our COL, Guilds, Currency. I remembered that we needed Calendar for the resources in China. In general I think we should be careful about trades when we don't know what "you have traded with our worst enemies" penalties they will incur, but I thought we should trade tech with Darius, because
- we really do need Calendar soon
- we may not meet a lot of civs soon, and our neighbors aren't friendly
- Darius may if we're lucky be a bit isolated
I took Alpha, Sailing, and 30 of his 40 for Currency. This revealed that China lacked Currency and Feudalism.

Beijing did indeed have a Castle and a whopping 125% defense including ****oo Clock, but it was lightly defended by 2 CG2 Archers and a Barrage2 Cat. It was also the Confucian holy city.

We got 2 Pikes in Baotou and 2 Archers and a Treb in Shenyang. No Workers or other Chinese units were visible. I moved our Keshik stack toward Beijing, along with with the Treb and an escort. Started a Cat in Shenyang and a Monument in Baotou. At the third border pop Baotou will get the Cotton, and then we won't have to settle any other crap silk road cities to get that resource. We got our second wave of units and I sent them toward Beijing. The NW Settlers had a light escort but I took the chance of giving the NE Settlers none.

Feeling optimistic about China, I switched from Engineering to Calendar.

3. Turn 212 - plague hit Pura

NE Settler met Toku, who did not seem to be too strong. He hated Persia and China equally and was at zero / Cautious with us. I don't think we need his land and thought we might be able to keep him cordial, so I threw him Alpha for 20. It wasn't enough for OB, but that was to be expected. I'm sure we will have to choose between him and Persia pretty soon, but we might want Korea for ourselves, so I thought staying with Japan might be viable.

But it did open was Calendar for HBR, which is hottt. Really quite unexpected. I hope this game won't be too easy. :) I didn't mind that it wasted the hammers into the Monument in Baotou.

4. Turn 213 / 1230 AD - found the first Siberian city for Fur + Gold and move units. I'm choosing the location on my own because I want to get the game going promptly.

5. 1240 AD - Angkor Wat built

Baotou cancels Monument -> Buddhist Monastery

Beijing has been lightly reinforced but our Treb has gotten there too, and I suicide it as an opener, then take it at a loss of one Keshik. Khanbaliq has a settled great scientist and the Colosseum appears to have a bug where it still gives 8 culture after being captured. So I set it to a Catapult right off the bat.

An Ainu Spearman mercenary with Combat I, Woodsman I, and CR3 is available for 65 + 6/turn. I hire him, intending to suicide him, and to deny him to the Chinese. Also available are an unpromoted Swordsman and Warrior which don't interest me.

IBT a Maceman comes and kills my first reinforcing Cat. Oops, he has 3-tile road movement. (I once lost a Great Prophet to that in an MP game).

6. 1250 - Qingzhou, on the coast, is next. No Walls, Combat I Mace, 2 CG 1 Archers. We'll lose some units taking it but I don't want to wait for this particular one. I'd like to induce a collapse if I can. Qingzhou actually looks pretty razeable, although I have no idea if it would trigger the UP. I suspect not, as the southern cities probably have a lot of food for high pop. I can't tell where they are from their names.

But I pause one turn for healing and to upgrade 3 HAs to Keshiks. Assuming that negative GPT still causes instability, I'd rather spend our money on stuff like that rather than research. Of course, as we found more Siberian cities our economy will tank (in fact it's at 0% / +3 now), so we will need to be careful. In fact, I do set research to 0%. We can easily spend it quickly on research later if we want, but for now I want to be sure we don't STRIKE.

The NW Settlers are in the spots where I suggest we settle, but I leave them alone to save money. The second NE settler does found Qiqihaer to block Japan. He does have a city on the coast.

IBT scouting Keshik kills Pike and dies to Crossbow.

7. 1260 - India comes along, Hindu and friends with Persia and unknown to Japan. I already traded Currency to Persia so I trade it to India for his World Map. I figure the intel is important. He offers Mono + 10 of his 40, but I decline the Mono so that we can get the diplo bonus. Also, I'm not sure whether we'll want or need OR or Theocracy and I think that when our economy gets on its feet, we can research Mono in one turn if needed. So I take Map + 40 and he's at +4, with OB.

His map is ancient, but at least it shows the middle east. The city with all those other wonders turns out to be Parsa, which I didn't expect at all.

Leaning Tower is built and I can see that it's in Athens, which is pimped out with Colossus + Moai. :goodjob:

I can't see the AP, but the city is in the top 5 cities list, size 11 and founded in 610 BC. That's not Italy or Greece. Maybe Albania?

Move Keshik stack up to Qingzhou. Some Chinese cities were on Asoka's map.

8. 1270 - Meet Ragnar and sign OB. The Persian Empire captures As-Sur from Arabia (so now it's no longer on our map).

Qingzhou is badly dotmapped. It misses the Fish outsize Fuzhou and has five tiles of overlap with Beijing. Xian is 4 tiles away and size 8, but unfortunately Qingzhou is now down to size 7 :cringe:. Does it deserve to be punished anyway? It does.



I bag two of them with spare Keshiks.

We get a GG in Baotou who I think would be best for a Medic III - or maybe in Beijing for super-promoted Keshiks, but we would need Theocracy or another GG to build them with 4 promotions. (4 Colosseum + 4 Ger + 3 Barracks + 2 Vassalage = 13). But there are 2 more annoying partisans that I hadn't noticed, so I have to be cautious about moving him around.

I notice that we're awfully close to the deadline for the first UHV condition. It looks like Fuzhou is in the area that we need to control, so I don't think we'll get it unless China collapses.

IBT trade a leftover Keshik for a HA.

9. 1280 - decline Asoka's offer to trade maps.

For the UHV condition (which I don't consider essential, but the benefit of 2 would be nice, and it's a fun challenge) I have to press the attack fast, and so I throw some Keshiks at Xian. If I raze it we should get Guiyang to its south, and maybe that will trigger a collapse.

Our 2 uninjured Keshiks kill the 2 defending Archers and Fuzhou gets some partisans.

I start pulling back one of our squatting Settlers so that it can fill in China. Maybe the other one should be pulled back too, but I leave it there in case we need to block Russia.

10. 1290 - Guiyang does not flip, which annoys me excessively. But I do have one Keshik which can attack its lone defending Archer at 78% and possibly (but not necessarily) survive a counterattack. I win, and this introduces us to Surya. He hates us for trading with his worst enemy and everyone hates him for being Buddhist, so in case he's someone's worst enemy, I do not to let him into the Mongolian Currency club, and just leave him alone.

Qin will talk to us, but won't cap.

We're playing chess with a partisan unit around Shenyang.



Roster:
Jet - played
Úmarth - up
Legendre - on deck
AnotherPacifist
Mitchifier
 

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Thanks for putting me at the end there.

I can't really comment right now, since I don't have much experience with RFC, but I'm reading up on it so I'll be ready when my turn rolls around.

Also, I'll have my computer with me while I'm gone (just no internet) so I'll probably start a RFC game of my own for practice. Which civ/time period would you suggest?
 
You could try Arabia.
 
Downloading now.

Can I ask you all a big favour though: post on the advert on the RFC board when you post your turns? I'll my best to remember to check this thread regularly but I check the RFC board nearly every day.
 
In the Thread Tools menu in the upper right of the thread you can Subscribe to This Thread. Don't know why you can't load the save. All I can think of is a version or CustomAssets problem.
 
Well, I downloaded the save just to check out the situation and it works on my system. We get 1/3 of the UHV due to Jet Khan after hitting next turn:). BTW where were you planning on fouding a city with that settler you sent out west?
 
I think we need one more city in China, all those yummy calendar-available resources wasted if we don't.
 
Yes, I was going to found cities in Siberia, but I wasn't confident that we could afford them yet. I would suggest two, 2S of the Fur (Fur/Sheep) and 2NW of the Iron (Cows/forest). That is only a suggestion.

I agree that we need another city in China. We could even fit three pretty good ones, one for each food resource that the current cities don't pick up. I am not sure whether our future foreign adventures will need to make us emphasize quality over quantity, for stability.

Did I misunderstand our unique power? I thought it was supposed to work four tiles in all directions. Is that right?
 
I reinstalled RFC and can now load it. Must have had some stray tweaks on the loose.

My turns weren't very eventful:

1. 1300 - as Legendre said we got the control china UHV goal. Lost a Keshik to a stray maceman. I figured China will collapse very soon so tried to get a peace treaty but Qin Shi Huang wasn't willing to give us any good techs so I didn't risk it. Diverted one keshik to Tibet and sent the rest of our units to Fuzhou.

2. 1310 - I was right, China collapsed. Razed Lhasa with our Keshik before Cyrus did (3/7 cities razed now). Sent the keshik in siberia west toward anatolia to try and locate the AP. Built courthouses to improve our economy.

3. 1320 - Tokuwaga wanted us to adopt Taoism. Relations went from Pleased to Cautious.

4. 1330 - We hit half a million population. Met one of Peter's scouts, he's a hindu, gave him 10 gold and then signed open borders and got cows for excess sheep.

5. 1340 - nothing to report.

6. 1350 - nothing to report.

7. 1360 - suicided two catapults and the merc spearman on Fuzhou and reduced it's garrison to a single catapult. Upped the research rate to 40% w/ +11 GPT. Founded Kaifang.

8. 1370 - Took Fuzhou. Met Mehmed and gave him meditation.

9. 1380 - moved our forces to the two southern cities. The idea being that we might want to invade Khmer soon to raze some cities and get rid of Surya since I don't see him ever signing open borders.

10. 1390 - nothing to report.

So in summary I took Fuzhou, settled Kaifang and then tried to kickstart our economy. I explored west but still haven't found the AP.
 
1. 1400 Traded 1 of our silk for 1 of Darius' cottons. Traded 1 of our pigs for Asoka's sugar. Also traded some techs: 490ish gold + Code of Laws for Darius' Engineering. Traded Horseback Riding to Asoka for Monotheism. Started research on Civil Service so we should be able to do a swap for Bureaucracy + Slavery in 10ish turns.

2.1405 Met Alexander, but Apostolic Palace still says owner unknown. Traded Theology for guilds with Asoka. Guilds + 200g for Alex's compass

3. 1410 Event: Waters of Life at the Batou oasis! Opened borders with Alex. Silk + copper for Asoka's Ivory. We should be able to build some elephants to stomp Sury in a bit. He's still using archers.

4. 1415 We got a great spy :(. I tried reloading but got another great spy ugh. Well, I figure we might as well try and use it to our best advantage. I check out Darius and he has optics and divine right. I figure if we infiltrate him we should be able to get at least 1 tech, and I divert all our incoming espionage to Persia (a whole 22 pts/turn!!!!). I have Shenyang start on a spy and I send our James Bond toward Seoul. Still sending our keshik towards Europe and no AP found yet.

5. 1420 Met Germany. Found out that the AP is in Laibach!! Had our GS do his thing in Seoul, regular spies should be up and ready in another turn.

6. 1425 Opened borders with Joao. Portugal became a vassal of germany.

7. 1430 Managed to bump our research rate up a little finally. We're at 50%, 2 turns till Civil Service and holding at a 20g income.

8. 1435 Toko wants us to cancel our deals with Asoka and I give him the finger. Get the quest to build 6 castles! Steal banking from Persia, and we still have plenty of espionage points to work with. Since Darius still has divine right and optics ready to steal, I take Germany up on a trade for Aesthetics. Germany also opens borders after we trade techs. I scope out the situation in Laibach. Greece's border is only 1 tile from the city so we could stage an attack from there when we're ready. Meet Louis.

9. 1440 Finish researching Civil Service. Switch to Bureaucracy and Slavery for 1 turn of anarchy. Meet Isabella. Send our spy back toward Seoul for tech theft round 2.

10. 1445 Come out of Anarchy, start research on Philosophy and whip a ton of buildings.
 
Forgot to upload the save! Legendre Khan = noob. Thank goodness he's getting deposed and the Pacifist dynasty is about to begin.
 

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Surveilling the situation in 1445:
1. Liberalism has not been discovered yet
2. We will steal Divine Right and Optics from Seoul
3. The Taoist and Confucian shrines have not been built yet! Need more $
4. Greece is advanced but about to collapse due to a war with Russia, should try to trade techs with them the turn before they collapse
5. Khmer will definitely vassalize if we have enough lead on the scoreboard

So at the end of 1445 I traded Banking + 17 gold for Philosophy from the Greeks. Set research for paper.

1. 1450 Found out Carthage is dead (in ruins). Embarked on walls for 6 cities for the Best Defense event. Founded Ning-hsia (didn't not take down research too much)

2. 1455 Sure enough, Khmer asks to vassalize! Demanded most of their resources plus gold, and directed them to research literature (useless tech but will buff our score). We need music eventually for military tradition, but we need to win the liberalism race, so this is not SO useless for us.

3. 1460 Tyras (Greek) captured by Russia. Met the Dutch (Buddhist), very unstable due to war with Vikings and French. Open borders done.

4. 1465 Paper done. Set research for Printing Press (thinking we will get education from bulbing; setting stage for Constitution/Taj Mahal). Set Khanbaliq for 2 scientists (hoping to bulb education). Directed Khmer to research Drama.

5. 1470 Uneventful

6. 1475 Spain wants war on Portugal (no thank you). Netherlands wants war on France (no thanks either). Traded alphabet to Khmer for literature + 10 gold + map.

7. 1480 Uneventful. Spies accumulating time in Seoul (got caught trying so reloaded).

8. 1485 Same (they must have a spy in there, both our spies got caught if we try to steal anything!)

9. 1490 Ulaan-Ude gets Confuzed (I see some Hindu missionaries from India coming!). Traded Drama from Khmer with Compass (got 10 gold and map again), directed them to research Music. Stole Optics from Persia.

10. 1495 Printing Press done: top score for the first time!:king: Netherlands asks to vassal but of course we decline for now. Got all 7 castles built: reward is either all melee promoted to city garrison I (useless since most civs already have gunpowder), or 3+ attitude from all leaders (chose that).
Stole Divine Right from Persia. Can now research Constitution, but...
Got freaking Great Priest in Khanbaliq!! (Not terrible but upset my plans a lot). So built Kong Miao for cash. Set research for education (7-8 turns), which hopefully is OK, since nobody has it yet, not even Greece.
Started caravel in Fuzhou (need to get to Mali and see if they have anything to trade, otherwise will hopefully vassalize).


Future directions:
1. Get liberalism first!
2. Get constitution for free tech and switch to free religion and constitution
3. We really need a seeding Christian monastery so that all our cities can be eventually converted to Christianity. We need one more city much closer to the Europeans so that it'll convert to Christianity, or we need a war with Russia to get one of their Christianized cities. We CANNOT research scientific method until we get at least one monastery built, otherwise our votes won't be enough.
[This assumes that I'm correct in that the AP religion is fixed in stone (Christianity), or at least the hammers are. I don't think the AP can be converted to a different religion. When I played Ethiopia and got Christianity founded, I was still Jewish, so when I built the AP, I was the only one that had Jewish buildings that gave hammers. I converted to Christianity then, but my Christian buildings did not get any hammers. I don't remember if the diplomacy changed (with all Christian civs) for the AP, but I don't think so, since I got reelected again and again with just me and Babylonia in the running (i.e. we were the only Jewish containing civs).]
4. Persia is researching gunpowder, and we will definitely have enough spy points to steal it in about 7 moves. (The spy will already have had -50% cost for staying at Seoul, just hope he/she doesn't get caught). See what I mean when I say: don't research military techs? :)
 
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