[BTS] Hammurabi Scenario

Gurra09

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The sun rises over the year 1792 BC and Hammurabi is the new king of Babylon. In this scenario should you conquer everything that Hammurabi conquered in the history (7 civilizations) before 1750 BC when Hammurabi died.

Download here!

It's a small map and you should conquer all the other 7 civs in 172 turns (43 years, 4 turns per year). This scenario has its own special mod to do it more historical.

The civilizations to conquer are: Nisibis, Subartu, Assyria, Eshnunna, Akkad, Sumer and Elam.

Settlers are disabled so new cities that wasn't there historical is being built.

Archers/Bowmen are only defensive and can't move out from cities.

Also, all techs from medieval era and later are disabled. You can't raze cities and cities cant flip from one civ to another.

How to install and play:
1. Extract the Hammurabi folder into your Beyond the Sword/Mods folder.
2. Start Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword.
3. Click on Advanced, then Load a Mod.
4. The Hammurabi scenario will start automatically when the mod is loaded.

Screenshots are in the download database.


Gurra09
 
Will check it out!:)

PS: I can appreciate why you put them in there, but the Horse Archers should actually be Chariots in Hammurabi's day. (Although a Historical Note added might do.);)
 
I know, but I put them in there because it had been hard to capture a city with swordsmen if not.

But I should maybe edit so Horse Archers are chariots and Swordsmen are spearmen or axemen.


Gurra09
 
New version of the scenario is uploaded.

Horse Archers in the cities are replaced by Chariots and Swordsmen in the cities are replaced by Axemen/Vultures.

Horse Archers, Catapult and War Elephant have new required techs that's disabled so you can't build them.


Gurra09
 
Checked out your updated version: looks challenging! BTW, have you considered doing a TAM version (might be interesting, I think)?
 
I think we'll discuss this one in an upcoming ModCast, but our agenda is quite packed so we might not get around to it for another couple of weeks. So for now I'll post my thoughts here.

In general, I really like the concept of this scenario, it has a lot of potential. IMO this is much better than all those lame Earth [insert date here] scenarios (which are nice in itself but there's just waaayyy too many of them and none really stand out, or at least none that I've tried so far) and I prefer smaller scenarios like this over those humongous Earth or WW2 scenarios and the like. I hope we'll see many more scenarios like this, from you and others. If my comments below make me sound overly critical it's only because I really like this idea and would like to see it taken to the next level. I wouldn't have written this post if I didn't like what I saw.

Cool as the concept is, there are some major issues with this scenario as it stands. By far my biggest beef is that, as it is, this scenario is waaaayyy too simple and straight-forward. I played this on auto-pilot with no real thought or strategy, just forming a giant Stack of Doom of my starting units (over time supplemented with newly-built Swordsmen) and moving that from one city to the next without ever meeting any real opposition. I finished the game in 80 turns, and I reckon if I tried it a second time I could probably do it in 60 if I'm even slightly clever about it (and I'm a pretty mediocre player, I'm sure others could do it even faster). If you're gonna make a heavily combat-oriented scenario like this you need to add a few more twists to add some variety to the gameplay and present the player with a real challenge that requires actual strategy to win.

Off the top of my head I have 4 fairly easy-to-implement suggestions that would completely change the face of this scenario and IMO probably make it a LOT more challenging and fun:

1) Enable Always War.

Right now I can move my SoD to one city at a time without punishment, only declaring war as soon as I'm about to cross a border. All civs are nice enough to sit around and wait for me to attack them.

If you make the human player at war with everyone else though, I'd constantly have to worry about being attacked from 4 or 5 different sides by numerous different parties. That would force me to keep a significant portion of my army dedicated to defense and would likely lead to a lot more open-field warfare that puts all those Chariots to good use, rather than only having my SoD with some quickly-whipped Swordsmen attacking one city after the other without ever seeing a single Chariot do battle.

The one caveat here is if you use Always War the AIs would start attacking each other as well, which could be bad as it might make the player's job even easier: just let the AIs slaughter each other (especially in the crowded area near the coast) and clean up the survivors afterwards. So you may have to be a bit smart about it to ensure the AIs focus their efforts on the human player, for example by making them all allies with each other.

2) Reduce the number of civs.

The number of cities on the map is just fine and I like the thought of not being able to raze them or found new ones, but if you have exactly 1 city per civ warfare becomes extremely straight-forward. I just march my SoD straight to the enemy capital, attack it and poof! The Civ is dead and the entire army outside the city is gone. For the most part I didn't even have to have any defenders in any of my own cities, as my SoD always got to the enemy capital before he got to any of my cities, and I only lost 1 cottage to pillaging in the entire game. Of course the fact that I never have to be at war with more than 1 civ at a time only compounds this problem.

If you keep the number of cities the same but reduce the number of civs to just 2-4 (e.g. give Rapiqum to Mari, Malgium to Eshnunna, everything else to Larsa?), then players suddenly have to start worrying about defending their own territory from counter-strikes, and dealing with a clean-up operation after taking a city -- entire enemy armies don't suddenly disappear anymore (or less often). Makes the game a lot more challenging and fun.

3) It's the economy, stupid!

I appreciate you want this scenario to be about all-war-all-the-time, but the whole guns vs butter concept is the key that makes Civ work. In this scenario there's no point in having workers, doing research (there IS no research), building anything other than Swordsmen, generating GP, etc. I just set the tax sliders such that culture is maximised while keeping my economy in the green and pump out Swordsmen and the odd Bowman in all my cities and send them straight to the front line. Sid's design mantra is that a game is a series of interesting decisions, but in this scenario there are NO decisions, there's really only one way to play.

The fact that Swordsmen are available from the start also makes city captures too easy early on, not to mention that it's a tad anachronistic as the Iron Age historically started 500 years after the setting of this scenario.

You could make things considerably more interesting by taking away some of the most advanced techs available in this scenario and making players research them themselves. Things like Iron Working, Construction, Literature and Code of Law give useful benefits, so not having those at the start gives players an incentive to maintain a real economy: maximise the science slider and deal with more unhappiness/slow border expansion, use those workers to create some cottages at the expense of whip-friendly farms, build some libraries and markets in addition to just Swordsmen, use some specialists to pump out beakers (or spies and steal the techs from the AIs), etc.

I'd probably also add some additional prerequisites to Iron Working (Construction & Code of Law?) so that Swordsmen aren't available until later in the scenario, adding more variety to the combat (this would force players to use some of those Axeman, Bowman, Spearman and even Chariots to attack cities early on).

4) Boost the AI.

The military AI is unfortunately not terribly capable, especially not when it only has one city -- it's too focused on improving its economy then, that's just how it's wired. Most of the time it simply refuses to have more than 5 or 6 units guarding its one city, though having only 3 units is even more common. And in my playthrough I didn't start seeing Walls until I was almost 40 turns in, i.e. halfway through.

You could dive into the SDK and completely rewire the AI to be more combat-ready, but that's probably a bit more work than it's worth (to say the very least). I faced the same problem with the Desert War scenario I made for Firaxis, the easiest way to solve this is to give the AI the buildings it needs (i.e. Wall, Baracks) at the start and creating a copy of the Archer/Bowman unit but with zero movement points and pre-place a bunch of those in every AI city so that there will always be a decent defense in place. That should make city captures a lot more challenging (which is after all the point of this scenario).


Of course, if you combine all of these suggestions the pendulum might just swing the other way, making the scenario impossibly hard. So you may have to experiment a bit by trying one or two ideas at a time and tweaking things further, or by just increasing the length of the scenario (although I really like the current length, I wouldn't make it *much* longer). But I do think that if you follow these suggestions or other fixes that have similar effects this scenario could be a ton of fun. IMO this has the potential to become one of the best Civ4 scenarios to date, but it's not there yet.
 
In general, I really like the concept of this scenario, it has a lot of potential. IMO this is much better than all those lame Earth [insert date here] scenarios (which are nice in itself but there's just waaayyy too many of them and none really stand out, or at least none that I've tried so far) and I prefer smaller scenarios like this over those humongous Earth or WW2 scenarios and the like. I hope we'll see many more scenarios like this, from you and others.

Although in general I find the suggestions made quite useful, I take offense at the qualification used here. Personally I think of "all those lame Earth" scenarios as an improvement on the Advanced Start option which, from a historical accuracy point of view at least, deserves the qualification more. Sure there are a lot of them and not all top notch, but scenarios (and mods) enhance the fun playing of playing Civ. Also, for most of the makers a lot of non-profit work goes into it and I wouldn't generalize like this. Perhaps you should try some more or, better yet, show us how it's really done.

As an afterthought: I wouldn't be too proud of being an official Civ4 scenario maker, from the way FfH got botched up in the official BtS release; also, although the official scenarios are appreciated, I personally don't usually play them more than once (I make an exception for FF - and RtW, but that's by Dale, an established creator already before he got in on BtS -, which is a great basis for mods/scenarios and RFC - which could be considered an Earthmod/scenario - by Rhye, another great Civfan creator).
__________________________________
To let you know where I'm coming from:
Diehard Civfan since 1992
(perhaps I should add this little text to my sig...)
 
Locotus: Thanks for your comments. It's always good to now what's good and what the players think should be better.

I think that my scenario is extremely hard to play so I haven't thinked about that it's easy. But that's because I'm a peaceful player (Always Peace in my other games).

I'm going to look at your suggestions (and fix my own) and upload a new scenario file with the edits later on.


Gurra09
 
I've edit some things and should test-play now.

Here is the edits so you can look if you think that something should be taken away or be added:

1. Literature, Code of Laws, Drama, Aesthetics, Currency, Iron Working, Metal Casting and Construction have to be researched. They aren't available from the beginning.

2. The 11 cities (Mari, Eshnunna, Larsa, Nippur, Isin, Uruk, Eridu, Ur, Lagash, Malgium and Rapiqum) has been merged to one civ, Mesopotamian Cities. The leader has changed name from King of [City Name] to Mesopotamian Kings.

3. All cities has walls.

4. Archers and Bowmen have 0 movements, 5 strength and are Only Defensive.

5. Babylonian cities has got 25 extra chariots because when I test-played first time I was defeated just after 10 turns...

6. Iron Working requires Code of Laws or Construction to be researched.

7. Babylonia and Mesopotamian Cities are always at war (Always War option).

EDIT: Because I can't play war without losing I can't test-play if everything in this new version of the scenario is good... Does anybody else should like to test-play the new edition of Hammurabi (right now Hammurabi 2)?

Then PM me.


Gurra09
 
1. Literature, Code of Laws, Drama, Aesthetics, Currency, Iron Working, Metal Casting and Construction have to be researched. They aren't available from the beginning.

You might want to give Code of Laws to Hammurabi (famed for his Codex).

2. The 11 cities (Mari, Eshnunna, Larsa, Nippur, Isin, Uruk, Eridu, Ur, Lagash, Malgium and Rapiqum) has been merged to one civ, Mesopotamian Cities. The leader has changed name from King of [City Name] to Mesopotamian Kings.

4. Archers and Bowmen have 0 movements, 5 strength and are Only Defensive.

This is maybe overdoing it. Not only are Babylon's opponents stronger, their cities have far better defenses. Also, mostly there wasn't just one opposing Mesopatamian civ. (Babylon was the second, after Akkad, to have a unifying influence.) Even if you make it two opponents it may still be challenging.

5. Babylonian cities has got 25 extra chariots because when I test-played first time I was defeated just after 10 turns...

If you keep Archers and Bowmen at normal strength, you won't need 25 extra Chariots. (I wasn't going to mention this, but actually Chariot warfare entered the scene around 1200 BC, long after Hammurabi. Mesopatamian armies weren't that large, consisting mainly of Spearmen: the Sumerian phalanx. Battle, like in acient Greece, were conducted outside cities, on a battlefield; after that cities might be sieged or just surrender. But removing Chariots altogether may again make it to hard.)

In principle your ideas are good, though (on that point I agree with Locutus).
 
Every day you learn something new. ;) Didn't knew about the spearmen. Should reduce the military in all cities (to get smaller armies) and replace the axemen and some chariots with spearmen instead.

I didn't gave Babylonia Code of Laws because Hammurabi's Code of Laws was written under his reign (1792 BC - 1750 BC), not before.

Should reduce Archer and Bowmen strength to normal (it was just a test to see if it was better or worse).

About the civs I don't know how to do it historically accurate without having city-states or all cities one civ. Have to do some historical research.

I don't know yet if I should keep the Always War option or remove it because in history Hammurabi wasn't at war with all cities at the same time... But it's still a good idea to make it more challenging.

Also, I've a question to the players: Is 172 turns enough or should it be more (516 turns - 12 turns per year) or less (43 turns - 1 per year)?


Gurra09
 
I think your basic setup is alright. If you reduce overall starting armies, that will already increase the challenge (I'd keep a few Axemen and Chariots in, just for diversity).

Also, if you divide the cities into a Northern and 2 Southern civs, balance will be increased.

To top it off, you can make the 2 Southern civs allies or (by starting as Custom Scenario and then saving) put all non-Babylon civs in one team.

I wouldn't increase game length unless you want to add non-Babylon civs as playable.

Just for fun, I'd throw in a few wandering barbarian units. (BTW, I kind of miss Assyria in here - that is Ashur and Nineveh in the northeast part; you might make them into a little - but well defended - barb or minor civ.)
 
Looks like a neat idea. It is something new rather than an Earth scenario. There are 3 things I would reccomend from looking at it. (Heven't really played it).
1). Change Axeman to Sumerian Phalanx and spearman to something else. Heavy formed infantry was primarily a anti-infantry force. They generaly did poorly attacking cavalry.
2). Diversify the units more. have field archers, city militia, tribal auxilaries, etc. This will help distinguish it and add another combat layer. It is always more fun fighting with new units.
3). Even if it is unrealistic, you might want to include Persia, Hittites/Assyria, and Egypt to add a bit of a race agaisnt time. You could create a new victory condition (would require python or xml work) just to control those cities. This makes the battles more fluid and not as cut and paste. If you attack to quickly, you don't have enough units. If you attack to late, the enemy is harder to remove.

just my ideas.
 
Ajdica: Good idea about name changes but what should I do with the Vulture, the already in-game Axeman?

I don't want to include Persia, Assyria and Egypt because the scenario is about Hammurabi's conquests, nothing more.

JEELEN: If I should do teams. Should there be 11 civs in one team or should they be divided in to 3? And if I divide them into three, what should they be named?

I don't want to put barb cities in the scenario but just some barbarians is a good idea.

A little spoiler about barbarians in the scenario:
Spoiler :
There is one unreachable barbarian city in the northeast corner of the map called The World with all wonders that shouldn't be built in this part of the world. But it's many, many, many mountain peaks in the way.



Gurra09
 
Turn the vulture into the swordsman and call it something like 'elite infantry' or something like that. To the extent of my knowledge, only the Celts used swords the length of the ones in game. They tended to be alot smaller. Swords in Hammurabis time were generaly made of bronze and sickle-shaped.
About other nations: I just thought of that to create more of a rush, not a sit and let me build up may stack of doom mentality. Just an idea.
 
I don't want to include Persia, Assyria and Egypt because the scenario is about Hammurabi's conquests, nothing more.

JEELEN: If I should do teams. Should there be 11 civs in one team or should they be divided in to 3? And if I divide them into three, what should they be named?

I don't want to put barb cities in the scenario but just some barbarians is a good idea.

A little spoiler about barbarians in the scenario:
Spoiler :
There is one unreachable barbarian city in the northeast corner of the map called The World with all wonders that shouldn't be built in this part of the world. But it's many, many, many mountain peaks in the way.

Here's what I found about Hammurabi's campaigns (plus their location):

NORTH:
- Hurrites (Nisibis; that would be barbarians then)
- Subartu
- Assyria (Ashur, Nineveh, Ekallatum), king Shamshi-adad
- mountain people (more barbs)

NORTHEAST:
- Eshnunna (Eshnunna), king Ibelpiel

SOUTHEAST:
- Akkad (Akkad, Isin, Nippur)
- Sumer (Larsa, Uruk, Lagash, Eridu, etc.), king Rim-Sin of Larsa
- Elam (Susa)

Also, until 1700 BC Babylon was actually allied with the cities of Larsa and Mari (to the Northwest).

So you can have 3 teams or just put all non-Babylon civs in the same team (as I explained in my previous post). No need to have 11 civs, as you can see.

So there's plenty of potential without involving Egypt (played no part) or Persia (non-existent).
 
It was just an idea to get more warfare in if there were some more big/powerful empires. I don't know much about Hammurabis conquests, but i think that for the most part they went like this: See, attack, rule.
 
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