PYL III - Religious Zealots!

Bleys

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This is the third installment a relatively new idea called Pick Your Leader. The idea is based on a single, common map, but a selection of AIs to choose from, each with his own unique starting position on that map.

The goal is to see how wildly varied the map becomes with various players taking control of their own choice of Leader.

Due to a bug in the World Builder saves, and how the games are created from scenarios, there are some issues about having a choice of leaders and difficulty AI bonuses. This makes it necessary to do things slightly differently than the last one. This months ZIP files contain 6 WB Saves, one for each leader. There is no need to clutter up your own WB folders with all these saves, so I suggest that once you decide on a leader, you simply un-ZIP his/her WB Save (clearly marked inside the ZIP) and dont worry about the rest (unless, of course, you wish to try your luck with more than one leader).

Also, because of the 6-WBsave-system, I was able to hand-edit each starting Civ so that all the AIs will have their proper starting bonuses at the higher levels. I was also able to remove that bonus in a 2nd file for each leader for the lower levels. Thats why there are 2 ZIP files, one for those who wish to play Monarch, Emperor, or even Immortal and Deity (Labeled Monarch) and one for those who wish to play at Prince or Noble (labeled Prince).

Now that we have that taken care of, I will move on to this months theme.

Religious Zealots!

You know the type. They love you as a brother if you share their religion, but the minute you don't, your labeled a HEATHEN! Thats going to make diplomacy in this game a bit different from the Backstabbers last month, because in that one, you had to watch your back even at Pleased. With these leaders, they are, for the most part, fiercely loyal if you share their beliefs. But diplomacy is once again an important factor, as is usually the case in Pangaea games.


Once again, I am not going to post Starting Locations. I am simply going to list the leaders, and attach the saves, and we can go from there. I think it worked out just fine last month, and all the leaders has some play, which made for a very exciting set of games. I looked at all of them, and I gotta say, that is what I envisioned when I started this idea. I will say that the map is a Pangaea with "Natural" shoreline, meaning there are some islands.

I would like to have as many do reports and progress updates as possible, but it is not a requirement of any kind. This is designed to be a FUN series, to see what happens when we alter the human-element in different spots on the map. I am sure most of us have played games where were saw an AIs capitol and starting location and though "Wow, I would like to have tried starting from that spot!" Well this is how the idea was born.

I do ask that all reports be labeled and formatted as follows:

Choice of Leader, Difficulty and Speed, Years covered in report. And then the report itself inside a Spoler. For example:

Willy, Monarch, Epic, 4000 BC through 1 AD:
Spoiler :
Since Pacal showed up on my left VERY quickly, I decided he was close enough to Rush, so I went for BW, built 50 Axemen, and ripped him to shreds! Heres is a screenshot of those shreds. <insert screeny of 3 City Ruins from that REX-spammer>

This is so that others who do not wish to gain pre-knowledge of the position or resources of others can avoid reading them until they wish too. Sort of like "Since I know Bismark is a Wonder-hog, and saw stone in his starting position, I didnt bother with the Great Wall" kind of thing. Thats kind of another reason to not publish the starts right away, so players can pick a leader without being biased by the starting tiles. If it doesnt work out this way, and folks would rather see the starts like I did last month, just mention it. To be honest, once I get into the "swing" of the map picking and WB file building, I will probably do the extra step. So tell me what you prefer, I dont mind criticism at all, as long as its constructive and polite.

So here is the list of leaders for this month. I went with 6, since last months game was pretty cramped. A little more space is a nice bonus, but dont think theres going to be less action! If your a non-believer, you better watch your back!:

Isabella, Spain, SPI + EXP
Charlemenge, Holy Roman Empire, IMP + PRO
Saladin, Arabia, SPI + PRO
Zara Yaqob, Ethiopia, CRE + ORG
Suryavarman, Khmer, CRE + EXP
Justinian I, Byzantine, SPI + IMP

A nice mix, I think. SPI seems the dominant trait (which makes sense), and SPI is a darn solid trait here (swapping religions to keep different AIs happy at different times can ease some of the pain, thats for sure), but the selection of non-SPI leaders is strong as well, CRE can really shine on Pangaea maps. No PHI, no IND, no FIN, so we should have some good, close games here, free from those traits that seem so dominating, and once again, diplomacy will be a KEY factor.

If you wish to play Monarch or above, download the ZIP labeled Monarch, for Prince and below, the ZIP labeled Prince. Each ZIP contains 6 WB files, choose your leader, and place his WB Save into your My Docs\My Games\BeyondTheSword\Saves\Worldbuilder folder.

Then start the game normally, load your favorite MOD if you wish, and choose "Play a Scenario" from the menu. You will see a listing for the leader you chose, pre-fixed by "PYL III".

In the Scenario menus, you may choose whichever level of difficulty and speed you wish. All bonuses should be correct now, no more Warrior Rushes on Monarch, and the AIs wont be as slow building Wonders and teching, since they have been given Archer in the Monarch-saves.

If you are a "Prince trying to learn Monarch" level player (I think this is a VERY common skill level on these boards, the one I kind of fall into myself), there are actually 2 choices for you, "Monarch-Light" (playing Monarch level with the Prince ZIP-save, no Archery for the AIs) or "Prince +" (playing Prince level with the Monarch ZIP-save, AIs start with Archery, but will play at Prince "skill" so to speak)

EDITED NOTE: I am pretty confident that the saves are all correct, but if ANYONE runs into any problems, please PM me or post here ASAP. I did not start every single save, I edited one, and started it, and then just made minor changes and re-saved each, but a stray character here or there is all it takes to muck em up.
 

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I'm taking Zara (My absolute favorite leader) at Emperor/Normal. Thanks for setting up another one Bleys (I have so many games to finish now...)
 
Cheers for setting up yet another game Bleys :D, I don't know how you manage it between PYL, NoblesClub, the SG's were currently playing and your involvement in Monarchists! But keep it up! we appretiate it!

Now I'm going to play this one with no reloads/re starts, I think this is why I've got it the bad habit of not finishing games recently, its just not fun after your third restart! :crazyeye: so I plan to play this one through from start to finish no matter what happens.

I'm kinda torn between Isabella and Justinian, both leaders that I've never played before, but both I think would suit my style of play.
 
I think I'm going with Justinian on this. Let's see how many unbelievers I can run down with cataphracts. :D

Monarch/Epic for me. I've been thinking about moving up to Emperor, but I doubt I'm able to pull it off.
 
Ugh.

Map Comments:

Spoiler :
Ugh.

Issy, Charlemagne, Saladin, and perhaps Justin are all squeezed together in a small corner. Could you not have used low sea levels? I wish the map generator would not do this.

Here's another map I quit:

 
Ah my bad Quotey, I actually made a bunch of maps, and they all had some features I didnt like. When this one came up, I did a quick scan and it LOOKED spread out, but I see now it wasnt.

Low sea levels is a good idea for future Pangaea's, I will try it for sure.

In the meantime, There IS more space this map than last month, but I guess its going to be a matter of who grabs it, especially with some of the placements I see in when I let the citys get founded.

I will be kicking out the next one pretty closely to this one though, if thats any consolation, I think a Seafarers game is in order, so we get away from this Pangaea type a bit.

EDIT: I see what I did now, LOL, a bit of spoiler info though:
Spoiler :
When checking AI locations, I looked at 4 or 5, but I never bothered looking at HREs start, which is the biggest clogger. Had he been in the NE or even NW quadrant, then Sal and Issy would have been decently situated. I dont forsee a TON of HRE players though, so perhaps it will be all right, after all, any of his 3 neighbors can likely rush him out. Thats what I get for not examining ALL the starts, I just hate doing that because I get pre-knowledge, and I like to play these myself, so there is some "dont want to look too close and get too much info" involved. I have a pretty good idea for future rounds though, so spacing will get better.
 
I'm in. Picked Charlemagne cause I love his UU and I recently had a really good game with him. I've been on somewhat of a losing streak lately but maybe posting in this thread will prompt a much needed victory.

Charlemagne, Monarch, Epic, 4000 BC through 1125 BC:
Spoiler :

The stone is the first thing I see, but on a Pangea map I try not to let it tempt me to build too many early wonders. Met Isabella to my west and Saladin to my east very quickly; the former founded Buddhism, the latter Hinduism.

I decided to try and rush Isabella since she's not protective. Bronze Working shows that she has it but I don't, so that plan went out the window (and I've had nothing but bad luck with chariot rushes recently). I started to prepare a settler instead, but then my scout popped a hut for Iron Working and consequently revealed the iron on a mine I already had up and running (frankly I should've suspected that from the start). Finished settler, chopped / whipped nine axemen, two swordsmen and one spearman and declared. Razed two cities and kept Madrid, the holy city.

So my little empire looks like this at the moment:



I've got a couple of axemen ready to take the barb city down south for the pig and the second copper and a settler / archer party on the way to settle somewhere in the north. Still not sure where. 1N of the cows grabs the rice but this city will likely be the front against Justinian and I'd feel safer if it was on the hill 1W of the cows instead. Alternatively, 1NE of the eastmost elephants grabs the dye as well, but the site only has the cows as a food source, and I could get all those resources later after I secure the border. Not sure. I need to do some more scouting, too.
 
I'm choosing Charlie, cuz I think he's pretty hard to really use.
 
Okay, I'm going to go for Justinian (Prince/Epic). Its an opportunity to stretch my SE muscles! Hippodromes & Cataphracts are great, I just hope I have horses nearby otherwise I'm screwed!
 
Ugh.

Map Comments:

Spoiler :
Ugh.

Issy, Charlemagne, Saladin, and perhaps Justin are all squeezed together in a small corner. Could you not have used low sea levels? I wish the map generator would not do this.

Here's another map I quit:


Um...what is Joao doing in the game? I thought this was supposed to be zealots?
 
Justinian I (prince/epic) 4000BC Initial thoughts

(includes starting pic)

Spoiler :
Well, I think I'm not going to go for an early religion, am I mad? does this go against the theme? I dunno, but I think being stuck with a load of religious nuts I'd rather wait for a religion to come to me and spend my beakers on something more worth while.

Here's justinian's start,



Weird! I've never had a start with the settler on a floodplain. I'm probably going to settle him 1SW where the warrior is to get right in the river network and grab both cows and corn. I'll probably tech Aggriculture > Animal husbandry find out where the horsies are and then start rexing!

I'm planning to play a fairly strict SE here, cottages only in the capital and plenty of food & production for my other cities (I hope), I'll probably grab CoL from the oracle and then make a stab at getting the mids for rep. I'm going to try and stick to an SE through the late game which not something I normally do.


Maybe I'll actually finish this one ;)
 
Um...what is Joao doing in the game? I thought this was supposed to be zealots?
That isnt a map of this game, its a map of another game that Quotey played where the civs were packed in too tightly. No worries mate, this game isnt THAT bad, it does have some tight quarters, but thats almost a given on any Pangaea map.
 
What the hell? I like the color green. Sal it is.
LOL I am considering Zara for the same reason! I usually dont put two of the same colors in, if theres one thing I hate its Boudi bordering Sitting Bull bordering Ghengis Khan, LOL. But these greens are actually far enough apart that you can spot the culture line if you bump up with Zara.
 
Ugh.

Map Comments:
LOL a quick reply for you inside the spoiler Quotey!

Spoiler :
Ugh.

Issy, Charlemagne, Saladin, and perhaps Justin are all squeezed together in a small corner. Could you not have used low sea levels? I wish the map generator would not do this.

LOL no sooner do I comment on Charley not getting much play, and the next two players pick him! Oh well. Still not as bad as that ugly map you posted, wow that one was HORRIBLE! Looked like our Backstabber map with Qin, Cathy, and Louis all separated by about 10 tiles!
 
Charlemagne, Monarch, Epic, 1125 BC to 1690 AD (almost there):

Spoiler :

Well, I planned to convert everyone to Buddhism but Saladin beat me to it with his Hinduism. Everyone converted and so did I. With the whole continent best Hindu buddies I decided to go for a peaceful victory, and culture seemed easier than space or diplomatic considering the limited amount of land I had; I was horribly behind tech-wise and had little room to expand any more.

Built the Pyramids in Aachen - it helps that there are no Industrious civs on the map. Was first to Music for the free Great Artist. Built The Parthenon and National Epic in Madrid, Heroic Epic, Statue of Zeus and The Sistine Chapel - with no marble and with Justinian having Music as well as marble, I imagine I got quite lucky - in Aachen. Used an Engineer from the Pyramids to rush the Mausoleum of Mausollos in Aachen. Unlucky with popping a Prophet and a Scientist but I used the former for a golden age and the latter for an Academy in Prague, my third culture city, for the +4 culture.

So I have eight cities (flipped Basra, and another Arab city down south will soon flip as well to make nine); Madrid and Prague have both built or currently building a Buddhist Stupa, Hindu Mandir and Jewish Synagogue. I'm running Caste System, Free Speech and Pacifism. Research is turned off, culture slider at 70%.

My only concern is a backstab, though it seems unlikely, and an AP diplo victory for someone. The vote keeps coming up but the votes are evenly split up.

Holy Roman Empire:


I need to change some improvements around to maximize specialists in my three cities, but otherwise there isn't much left to do.
 
Bleys:

Spoiler :
Still not as bad as that ugly map you posted

No, that map is great. I'm Russia. Wang Kon is at least 20 tiles to the west of me, and everyone else is right next to each other. If I was Jaoaoaoaoa, or even worse- Charlemagne, I'd be annoyed.
 
Played the first 50 or so turns

Justinian I (Prince/Epic) 2700 BC


Spoiler :
I was gonna settle my settler 1SW but after moving the warrior SE I discover... Gold! Woot. So I settle 1 south in the end popping the hut and it gave a scout! Nice. :D



Unfortunatley by moving south I missed out on a clam! :( But I'm fed up of coastal starts so nevermind.

Initial build was a worker while I teched mining and aggriculture, luckily I popped aggriculture from a hut! :) met all of the rivals very soon, so this must be a fairly crowded map. Animal Husbandry revealed horses and there are some nearby, Yay!

After the worker was done, I went for a warrior followed by a settler as soon as the cap hit size 3, Its looking quite snug here and as Justin is imperialistic I can feel a rex coming on, there is fair bit of gold on this map and I wanna grab as much of it as I can!

Bronzeworking came in and... bad news no copper! :sad:

Heres a Dotmap, I'm planning to settle yellow and blue first then green and pink, this should block off a fair bit of land for back filling. Decided to skip the Oracle and focus on pumping out settlers seeing as this is another crowded start! :crazyeye:

 
What the heck. Sury on Monarch, fully expecting to lose. :)
 
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