Settler first strategy

CivCorpse

Supreme Overlord of All
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Nov 15, 2005
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I have always stuck with the tried and true wisdom of worker or workboat first build order. But lately from boredom and the desire to try new and unusual things. I have been doing things in unconventional ways. With varying degrees of success. My latest experiment has been with building a settler before a worker or workboat. Not exactly settler first like the thread title. But definately much earlier than the usual opening plays. And not always the best way. But getting that second city out quickly can be huge. It does not require any special resources beyond those often found in most games. But it does require a plains hill as your city site. Something a lot of players shoot for anyway. Playing on epic or slower speeds means you can often afford the extra time to move a turn or two. Though on Marathon, the timing is a bit off due to 3x speed for city growth and 2xspeed for units. So the following example is for epic speed.

What you need a plains hill to settle on. One 3:food: tile in your 1st circle. These are not extreme in any way. Any tile producing 3 :food: works. Floodplains,grassland cow, corn, pigs, rice. One of these can very commonly be found in your starting 8tiles.
Settle the city and build a warrior. This takes 11 turns. Your city grows to size 2 in the exact same time. Start a settler. Work any combination of tiles that gives you a combined total of 6 :hammers:/:food: . It makes no difference if it is 6:food: or 2:food: 4:hammers:. You just need 6.
On turn 36 you have a settler with a warrior escort. You could have just started a settler from turn one and been done 6 turns earlier but unless you popped a scout/warrior early enough to get back to the capital (without being eaten by a bear), then you run the risk of losing your settler and then you are 30 turns behind. Also if you are lucky enough to have 2 3:food: tiles on rivers then you get more commerce. But that gets into a lot of what if's. If you feel the 6 turns are that big a difference. Then tech mining->BW and you can whip on turn 29 if spiritual or turn 30 if not. That gets you a settler WITH escort on turn 30/31 respectively. Personally I prefer to wait the extra 6 turns so i am @ size2 when the settler goes off. This leaves me a pop to whip to speed up my worker which is the next build.

Here are a few times that i think might be well suited for this.

A. Your selected Civ has few worker techs. Tokogawa, Saladin, Izzy, Charlemagne to name a few. Of the 4 named, 3 start with Mysticism. So you might want to take a shot at an early religon. You can usually finish Poly or Med and 2-3 worker techs by the time you build warrior/settler/worker/warrior.
Even if you don't take a shot at a religion it is better to have something for the worker to do.
B. Heavily forested starts without mining as a starting tech. This is especially true if you pigs/grassland cows. AH and BW are both expensive techs. It enables you to have both available when your 1st worker pops out.
C. You like to build wonders. It gets that nasty chore of producing your first settler out of the way that much sooner. From that point on. Your second city can start the process of building units and more settlers. And you haven't used up important wonder building forests for chopping out settlers.
D. You want a war. Any War. You can have your settler on his way to settle the copper on turn 30 if you whip. Tress haven't been chopped for a settler so they are available for axemen.
E. You're directions for rexing are limited due to ocean/tundra/both. You can get boxed in pretty quickly if you have fewer directions to go.

If you start with good worker techs for the surrounding land then worker first might be better. Gold or grassland gems in the BFC being prime examples.

In case anyone is wondering. If you are playing an Imperialistic leader. The you can have an escorted Settler on turn 28 without whipping if you work two 1:food:2:hammers: tiles. Forested grassland hills and forested plains. One forested grassland and one forested plains hill is a good example. As long as you are producing 2 food and 4 hammers. With an Imperialist leader you can have the warrior return to the capital and escort a second settler on turn 44. Three cities in 44 turns on epic is pretty good rexing. well maybe a couple turns later because the settler has to move to the new site.

Hey FH, how many times must i tell you, Land is Power.
 
I think it's an interesting experiment to consider when approaches like this might be best, and tune them, then compare against more traditional approaches.

Wish you weren't in Epic speed, though... oh well.

Personally I prefer to wait the extra 6 turns so i am @ size2 when the settler goes off. This leaves me a pop to whip to speed up my worker which is the next build.

Well, we've already assumed an 8 turn growth time, so whip - regrow - start worker is only two turns behind your preferred approach, with 22 hammers invested somewhere else. So warrior - (whip) settler - warrior - worker is only two turns behind warrior - settler - worker.

Edit - no we didn't - we assumed an 11 turn regrowth time.

And the non whip approach is going to be forced in those circumstances where your motivation is an alternative tech path.

C. You like to build wonders. It gets that nasty chore of producing your first settler out of the way that much sooner. From that point on. Your second city can start the process of building units and more settlers. And you haven't used up important wonder building forests for chopping out settlers.

This one should be fairly straight forward to model.

D. You want a war. Any War. You can have your settler on his way to settle the copper on turn 30 if you whip. Tress haven't been chopped for a settler so they are available for axemen.

I'm not sure what measure to use here. Fastest Axeman? Fastest Axe trained in capital? Fastest to N Axemen?
 
Hey FH, how many times must i tell you, Land is Power

:lol: I know, I know, I really have to get that through my thick head :lol:

I like this opening and the reasons offered for doing it. Every city created is a pump for producing things. The earlier you have two pumps instead of one means you are effectively doubling your production potential. I like that a lot.
 
If you whip the settler, It takes 11 turns to regrow, then 8 turns to build a worker to the point where it can be whipped. So you get your worker on turn 50 with a spiritual leader. If you let the settler build, you can whip the worker on turn 44. It takes 6 turns to build a farm. So on turn 50 you have a worker 1/2 a warrior and a farm for a faster regrowth to pop2 again. By turn 29, you should know if there are AI's close enough to need to get that second city out that much sooner. I think you may be right though because you also get 6 extra turns of commerce, growth and production from your 2nd city.
 
Yes, plains hill is the only way this strategy works. Preferably you have a plains hill for your new city too.

That would be just extra spiffy wonderful. You can now rinse and repeat in your second city. For a total of four cities on turn 60ish.

LOL, and it's just sick if you have the rare good fortune to settle on stone/marble plains hill as an imperialistic leader. Julius Caser at his most dangerous. 4 fast cities is a lot of chances at Iron. And Org means your economy isn't in the toilet.
 
That would be just extra spiffy wonderful. You can now rinse and repeat in your second city. For a total of four cities on turn 60ish.

You're missing the point. The hill is needed to crank out the workers you neglected earlier. ;)
 
You're missing the point. The hill is needed to crank out the workers you neglected earlier. ;)

LOL, eventualy...preferably around the time steam power is discovered. the +50% will make up for the lost 5000 years in no time.
 
If you whip the settler, It takes 11 turns to regrow...

Right - my bad; I've been exploring normal speed OCC with Ramses, so Epic speed + Settlers + Anarchy is crossing me up.

In particular, holding off means that you can change your civics while the settler is in transit.

My gut is that 6 City Two turns < 5 City One turns, but I would want a concrete objective to compare to. You might not be getting any extra commerce, depending on the maintenance delta?
 
With imperialistic on a marble or stone plains hill with a forest plains hill in the small bfc you can get 9 hammers per turn or the settler in 12 turns, which is prolly worth it if you don't have many other good titles to improve and have some good second city spot nearby...
 
I think it is because settler first with imperialistic is a slightly more obvious opening whereas civcorpse is talking about a more generalizable opening.
 
Related to what oyzar said...how come you didn't mention imperialistic leaders?

No kidding - you should at least have remarked on how an Imperlistic leaders production rates would change the timing. I bet the penultimate paragraph would have been a place to mention this.
 
These maths make my head explode. What's faster, doing this or chopping a settler? Assuming one starts with mining of course. I guess this is indeed faster but the make 1 worker, chop another, chop a settler approach has the advantage of leaving you with 2 workers after it gets done.
 
Hmm - chops have higher yield/ worker turn on Epic, right?

Normal speed is 1 turn of movement + 3 turns of chop => 20 hammers => 5hpt

So on Epic that would be
1 turn of movement + (1.5 * 3 =) 4 turns of chop => (1.5*20 =) 30 hammers => 6hpt?

or do the rounded worker turns go the other way?
 
I think it is because settler first with imperialistic is a slightly more obvious opening whereas civcorpse is talking about a more generalizable opening.

Exactly, I think using this strategy is generally a good idea when starting with leaders that are lacking in starting worker techs. Not all of which are Imperialistic. Though Charlemagne, Saladin and Izzy all start with Spiritual which means you might want to take a little gamble on a religion.
Tokogawa and Saladin remain unpopular leaders to play primarily because they are handicapped in the start by their starting techs. HRE has an awesome UB and UU but again are hard to get started because hunting/myst can severely limit your opening play while you try and catch up in worker techs to develop your land.
The same with Boudica, terrific warmonger traits but hunting and myst can prove to be fairly useless early on.
Also good with heavily forested starts where you don't have mining as a starting tech.
The two most important things in the early game are land grabbing and developing your first cities. If you are hampered from development by techs and/or terrain then this gives you an opportunity to pursue the other avenue.
If you play the Chinese then I would almost always go worker first since with mining/agg as starting techs you can have BW when the worker finishes and with those 3 techs you're worker is busy for quite some time.
I kind of like playing Tokogawa but findmyself building warriors for the first couple builds because I need to clear forests to mine the hills or farm, then I need AH because my food sources are 4 legged. By the time I get that done and a settler chopped and whipped, i am a city or even two behind with a protective neighboring civ plopping a city right on top of the only copper for miles around.
 
i suggest a scout or no escort at all- seeing as your going to risk an opening why not
go for broke? -"everything to excess" (or something like that - William Blake)
Galley/settler island is another route (although it has never worked in the long run for me personally- monarch /standard)
 
Well i gave it a shot as Charlemagne. It is now 50 something AD and I have 7 cities on a continent with 5 other civs in a game that started with 7 ai. So it is crowded but I am #1 in land area. I also have the shrine for the only religion on our continent. I am #1 in population . I also have the oracle and ToA. I have a great spy in the capital. i just haven't decided who to infiltrate. I have ivory for jumbos but no darn Iron. I can go get some with axes and jumbos. Especially since my axemen got the shock promotion event. I am running a sort of lame hybrid but plan to go CE now that i have workers out inproving my lands. In short a very strong start for a leader not known for fast starts.
 
Hmm - chops have higher yield/ worker turn on Epic, right?

Normal speed is 1 turn of movement + 3 turns of chop => 20 hammers => 5hpt

So on Epic that would be
1 turn of movement + (1.5 * 3 =) 4 turns of chop => (1.5*20 =) 30 hammers => 6hpt?

or do the rounded worker turns go the other way?
5 turns for an epic chop so they are rounding up. Thats odd given their known love of the floor function.
 
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