Boff-02 Behaving Badly

Yup in the soon to be ashes of the insult known as boffo1 comes Boffo2! well Boff-02 Behaving Badly for those purists out there. Though nothing clever or original about the title, that pretty much sums up an SG with S.ilver and Liq. Truth in Advertising scores big points in this world of intranets I hear.

Only variant is no 3 + seafood starts this time around; we played that cup of pain last time.

So back to Effing Fractal map 2 continents as we'd rather we didn;t have to tech sailing for our second settler. Yes so boring so drool.

Leader for this sailing of the titanic is...



Charles in Charge!

Coming in first place for Cranky Old Geezer yet a distant 6th (behind Hammy) for Drunk Uncle Everyone Loves. No one loves Charlie

Rivals: 6
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Fractal, 2 continents, choice from 5x map regens
Mapsize: Standard
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Epic
Version: 3.13 Official Patch
Victory Conditions: All enabled, Space and Time are cheap but hell, better than no oil.
Variant Settings: No Mass sea food starts this time people! Plus no Razing holy towns for silver, anyone else can though. Perm Alliances on.

In general, we play to have fun and learn about CIV4, If we aren;t losing enough, time to change the gameplan up! Depending on if anyone is stup I mean intrepid enough to join us then up to 2 more for a total of 4 people. Keep in mind though if for some reason a 5th wants to join pfft ok bend my arm. Liq and silver will be duoing this SG soon enough likely regardless!

24 got it/ 48ish posting a quality report. If you need to skip, tell us! If you need to suddenly disappear off the face of fanatics... tell us beforehand!

Turns are 30 start 20 first round then 10 to 15 rest. Not a huge fan of a strict X turns so + or - a few isn;t gonna kill anyone.. let that wonder finish building, end turn early to decide on next tech, Leave that war for silver.. etc.

Can use bug 2.3+ as it really is swell. If you have an old version please update as older versions have a .. gasp.. bug that can crash SG's

set up game and then randomized 4 more starts well 6 more as 2 of them had 3+ seafood.

Without further ado

Start A



Start B



Start C



Start D



Start E


Currently coming down with the flu. Was camping the digital thermometer waiting for my fever to rise so I could say I was officially sick then realized, I don;t think of temperature in C. So that's what 38 C is..

Goofed up on some serious Cough Syrup currently but honest that's nothing new. So all fine


Roster:
Liq
Silver
Refar
Corneh
Kgsolomon1

What a joke A is..

Edit in my 102 F haze I left permanent alliances on I just forgot to post in this initial description.

Cheers!
-Liquidated

I would take a slot.
Spent too much time modding lately, need game practice again

Checking in Liq. Looks like one of the greats has decided to join us loons .

The bottom 3 starts look ok. C is some amount of awesome with those rivers... Don't have time to look closely right now though.

Wow sure Refar

Silver wasn;t making stuff up this time!

The flu just managed to completely run me over as I was posting this thread a few hours ago such that it's hard to make head or tails of those starts.

A just made me giggle in an unhealthy way. I mean even moving the scout won;t help much.

B caught my attention on the blue circle but well Liq loves coastal starts so take that with a grain of salt. oh wait that was E... on don;t really like B, too close to poles

C was looking nice then realized that was the scout, not the
Settler.. meh. That south area screams metals. But yeah C is really nice with all those rivers.

D is "zomg marble" that I tend to reject purely out of disdain for those shinnies that mislead so many. meh well they aren;t on desert, that's a help and most of those plains have fresh water.. Ok not a bad start.

E was the run to blue circle one as it looks like that's coastal. Liq is partial to coastal starts looks like that's it for land in the north tho... see probable coast in the NE and NW. meh.

C, D or E with that marble in D maybe making a col slingshot attractive.

If one more person decides to pop up soonish we can start this farce on the road with an optional slot open to whomever.

Ok room is spinning again, quality restfacilities time incoming.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

I somehow like B - Looks so green - can be a good commerce or a good production city. (tho i am a bit unsure with Blue Marble graphics, but it is Grassland, isn't it ?)
Corn is a tiny bit better better than Rice... Will need to wait till CS to get it irrigated to full potential, unfortunately... But a not irrigated farmed corn is still as good as a irrigated farmed rice.
And i hope for another ressource in the fog yet.

D and C are not bad either - D because of marble in the BFC - but on the other hand - i dont like those lakes that much...
C has a good looking long river. Wines are no bad either.

Hmm... I think Refar's right about B. It does look better than C, because a lot of C's irrigable land is plains , while B has mostly grasslands, and forested grasslands by the river that we can slash. Very green all around with a good number of hills too, so good production at any time of the day.

Realized E is gonna be a "one tile off the coast" deal, and that most of the hills are JUST outside the BFC .

Have a feeling that there are masses of tundra and lousy terrain surrounding D... so probably not a great choice.

I really liked C... until I realized that the I was mistaking the scout for the settler.

Lots of forests in A, but that's a blessing and a curse, as we'll need to chop our way out to improve. No good ticketing your capital for the National Park . Saving grace is probably that it has water and is on a plains hill.

honestly none are really that bad other than A's mystery forests making it completely grab bagish. \

Yeah blue marble grass are nice and green, relaxing. I cringe at the default terrain set now though wonder how you do not use blue marble yourself Refar?

Looking it over after some sleep, E looks like coast in the NE and the west.. uh looks cramped. Ok so skip E

B has us in the south pole area with that grass hill there modified for city start area. Normally that would be tundra iirc. Not a bad bit of land and the poles on fractal are a lot more forgiving than say custom conts. Moving scout southish to see where exactly to settle we'd want to move to blue circle probably making a run for early religoin poor. Generic nice start and pretty to boot.

D is marble + forests = run for oracle to get those courthouses going. The rest of the land is kinda meh, least the plains can be farmed tho making that lake useful. Would assume more plains and hills in the fog to the north making it pretty hammer rich. Settling in place nets fresh water but doesn;t yield a commercable tile such that early religion would be unlikely even though we'd need priesthood for code. Not a huge fan of clams as it is the rice of the sea hehe. That and workboats really take a while to build. I just don;t see amazing synergy there.

C is land o rivers such that 13 of 18 tiles seen are fresh water of course that effing rice isn;t. That's coastline to the east btw. settling in place has amazing synergy with charlie.. working wine off the bat is 1 food 1 hammer 2 commerce meaning polytheism is pretty much in the bag for hinduizsing. Food is meh but 9 visible forests to chop out (all riverside grass, hills or plains such that they are all marked for the chop) 8 tiles in the fog and probable metal on that naked plains hill in the BFC. Really effing nice production. Since Charlies' strength lies down the path of feudalism wine is the preferable to a calender happy so that's a bonus.

I like C . Could go poly for first tech making a warrior first, then agriculture to get the food going. Then, baring a resource in the fog, Mining to BW with an option for archery if things are ugly. Since imperialistic only adds +50% to raw hammers while building settlers, C's lower food count isn;t as crippling for charlie. I would imagine though there's another plant or animal to work in the fog though.

B is generic nice though doesn;t tie in well with charlie. D imo is just not a great fit for Charlie.

I just rolled a map to make sure that the imperial trait still worked as it did in warlords and just took whatever start...



yap BW is in and I ran though AH to spot the horses. That's hammy of the +50% to melee archers with Babylon on a hill. Iron is on the plains hill just West of the BFC... like swords would help... Honestly if we end up with a start like we go with another map; boffo1 was a lesson in 3+ fishie starts and we'd like to pass on doing that crap again.


trying to get the screen shot working haha. photobucket is stalled. B is fine if you two like it. either way a col slingshot via chops sounds a plan.

Cheers!
-Liq'd

I'm good with either B or C. No glaring weaknesses in either, and water to get farms going. Of obvious concern is going to be psycho AIs, but that's always a concern, so whatever .

This flu/ stomach virus is just killing me. I'll take a skip this round (wow what nice form there liq) and just pick up after the first round. I should have stopped vomiting by then.

Can start whenever silver 3 peeps is good enough to start with and well can grab another 1 or 2 if interest.


Feel free to discuss tech path and how to play this unwieldy beast of a leader Not exactly the most overpowered Civ, should be a blast.

Man I need to lay down.

Cheers!
-catatonLiq

I'm ok with either B or C, so I'll let Refar decide, and then we'll roll with it unless someone else manages to stumble their way into this thread, and for inexplicable reasons wants to join .

Man, you have tough constitution though Liq. When I come down with the flu, I can't even look at a computer screen without massive, rolling headaches and a general feeling of lying down and dying

I have an incredible amount of pain tolerance... put it this way, tear gas was a pleasant change of scenery while stationed in england. Sadly liq is not kidding.

Anyway charlie doesn;t have the bestest set of traits ever such that his main power hits around midgame. Imperial doubles hammers (not food) for settlers such that food = whip forests = chop. Add to fast settlers, Charlie's UB courthouse is a whopping -75% upkeep, making this a power rex game. Main focus is on nailing Code of Laws asap.

Now the key techs here are priesthood and BW/IW.

Priesthood obviously opens oracle but also unlocks writing... which we need before we build the wonder. Also, preisthood is a preq for monarchy (cheap source of happy) and feudalism (protective longbows early are great)

BW opens chops and and the whip and leads to metalcasting -> machinery (to open the UU) after pottery. IW for the metal obviously (UU pikeman are +100% horses and melee ) but also jungle expansion.

Charlie starts off with hunting and myst... not the best for a rush to bw. Hunting leads to archery so it can replace metal early on. Myst lends itself to early hinduism.

Thing is just how close is monty/alex? We do not need metal to defend ourselves against an early rush and 2 first strikes default can rush early if they are next door.

So basically map choice dictates opening options.

C is all about the 2 commerce wine start, making Hinduism almost a sure thing. Blitzing poly hurts our expansion though and we'll prolly score confusion as a creed anyway, Food as seen is low though there is a lot of fog that is prolly hiding a cow or another food. Lot of forests to chop out settlers/ oracle tho so less reliant on the whip.

For B, if we settle on the blue coastal start, there's most likely a fishie off the coast (else no blue circle there) for a 3rd food. That would equal a metric ton of food. Good thing we can move scout south to the hill to find out before moving settler. With this start it's whip over chop (few forests) and an amazing hammer potential. No chance for an early religion tho and we are going to have to research poly eventually regardless.

Both perfectly viable starts. I should have restarted each roll in case one of these ends up like that hammy sandwich I posted or an early barb uprising. Oh well.

Funny thing is a game I started a week ago had sitting bull exterminated in like 3700 BC. Nice to know those insane barb uprisings happen to the AI's as well. I restarted it in sitting bulls honor.

Cheers!
-Liq

My vote is on B.
Moving the Scout W (Grassland Coast) and then SW on that forested hill 1E from the blue circle should reveal everything we need to know about the blue circle spot. If we see why the game thinks the "no fresh water - blue circle spot" is that great, we settle there, otherwise settle somewhere with river-access (Probably in place).

If we are going for fast CoL - which we probably do, because of the UB, we can be confident on founding Confucionism with CoL. More so if we are going to Oracle it. In that case, there is not much point in founding Hinduism - Starting with Myst/Hunting we will need agriculture for the corn and - exploration pending - other worker techs.

4000BC (0):

Ok, so I don't have the advisor suggestions turned on, so I go look at Liq's post to find the blue circle. Ok, it's the hill 2S of the wheat. My gut feeling is that the game wants us to settle there because it gets the wheat and is coastal.

Moving the scout also reveals this.



Now, I'm definitely not an expert in settling stuff, so I'm gonna scamper back to the team for advice on this. If we settle in place, we basically waste the sheeps (I think). Moving to settle the hill would make for a weaker capital (I think), but it would be coastal and take advantage of all the land to the west.

If we move, then better 2 west - that riverside plains tile. Would be coastal, riverside and witch acess to sheep and corn.
The wheat to the north should be usable with a future city - there seem to be land around it.

In place would indeed single out the sheeps a bit - but we will have them in cultural boarders for health soon enought. (We could still settle a future city on that peninsula tip later, when we are out of good spots, to work sheep, hill and a ton of water tiles, so it wouldn't be completely wasted)

In place is green, is riverside and has a good food-count. I am 95% sure that there is another ressource - either in the fog or unrevealed yet. The RNG will only rarely give you a start with only one ressource in the in-place-BFC (In if, then it will cover everything with forest to make it up to you ).
Also to the east in the second circle - it looks like there are flood plains which would further improve the food and commerce potential of the site.

I - slightly - prefer in place (Corn + Flood Plain (?) + Imaginary Mystery Ressource) over moving 2W (Sheep + Corn + Coastal). Overall both options would be fine by me.
The blue circle was planted by a enemy spy .

that's why the blue dot was there.

Well capital with sheep wheat and corn sounds fine plus a hill for defense.

Not sure if we are in the north or south... if south, could settler the plains east of the sheep and leave the wheat for a town to the north.

Not a bad idea really as it gives us fresh water and no bum effing plains tiles... well two fog down there so maybe we get crap. Either way, a painless coastal start as we get no ocean tiles.

I'd vote east 1 of sheep and save the wheat for another town.

meh cross post let me consider in place.

Meh settling in place means we are sacing that sheep most likely tho if there's a fishie hiding in the ocean... well then moving 2 east would waste that haha. No win.

Either way we pick well lose no doubt so in place saves us the initial turn. Least we can fit a town on that grass west of sheep for a marginal coastal town.

Thing I really like about blue marble is that grass tiles are so relaxing and plains look like the trash that they are!

Cheers!
-Liq

(cont.)

Ok, so I like Refar's logic, especially about settling in place. Coastal starts don't really excite me at all, so moving to make one coastal would be kinda bleh.

I count 15 water tiles for a city settled on the peninsula, so that would be a definite Moai candidate, with some respectable land tiles (slight overlap with the capital, but largely irrelevant).

So we settle in place. Dialing up a warrior while I think about this for a moment. No other resources in the FC (visible that is, we probably have some source of metal), but we have 2 FPs.

We have crappy starting techs in Mysticism and Hunting. Plug Agri as the corn will be our primary food source for a while, along with the FPs.

3975BC (1):

So the scout reports absolutely no seafood in the peninsula's vicinity, so that city is marginal at best.

3950BC (2):

Nada.

3925BC (3):

We are definitely in the south (suspected from deciduous trees visible in the north), but this turn the scout finds a deer on a tundra forest 4 tiles south of the capital. Strangely enough, that appears to be the only tundra sitting around....

3900BC (4):

Hut gives us 45 gold, for future deficit spending.

3875BC (5):

Find some fish to the south, but still no other tundra tiles.

3850BC (6):

Looks like additional desert to the east of the capital.

3825BC (7):

Nevermind, the desert is minor. See some plains and more sheep, and the strangest river set up that I've ever seen.



FP on one side and grass on the other?

3800BC (8):

We get a border pop and go to working the FPs for the extra gold.

3775BC (9):

We pop a hut and get Animal Husbandry! Rock on!

3750BC (10):

Ok, the desert does continue in a big splotch it seems.

3725BC (11):

Find some pigs and a northern coastline...

3700BC (12):

Pop another hut for 47 gold. Find more fish.

Also, Buddhism is FIADL.

3675BC (13):

Agri is in this turn and I dial up Mining.

3650BC (14):

Nada.

3625BC (15):

Wow, that river runs long and straight north, and there is MARBLE beside it.



The warrior is done, so dialing up a worker in 18 turns.

3600BC (16):

Our scout takes a position on the hill, with the lion nearby.

3575BC (17):

Lion dies attacking the scout. No damage.

3550BC (18):

Moving scout meets this guy.



3525BC (19):

His borders are right to the north, pretty sure that this is Washington.



3500BC (20):

Scout finds water to the east and west of the continent going north, such that Roosevelt is probably blocking all passage north with his capital.





Hopefully not too much there with the early techs.

Roster:
Liq <-- On Deck --
Silver <-- Just Played --
Refar >> Up Now <<
(empty)
(empty)

Looks like snakey continents.

yeah not much option on techs.. settling in place was a win there, I'd say farm those fp's hehe. First person goes 30 but well refar can take em I guess whatever... just not liq who confuses any capital with Athens and cannot keep confusion straight.

picking up animal husbandry was a coup I never really begrudge hunting as a starting tech as that initial scout makes up for the lack of utility.

seems to me we need to take out America sooner or later though prolly not with an axe rush. America isn;t too close such that might as well rex before wiping FDR out. GG for no early UU's

Tech wise we need most of the worker techs as we have a nice spread of recources.

wheel for roads, masonry for marble fishing for fish.
a military tech prolly BW since that enables the whip as well as the chop. Though our archers are great...

I'd go BW next tho archery not a bad idea soonish since we are going to have perma barbs from the east and a defense doesn;t need a pillagable resource.

First town screams 2 north of marble as it has coastal fish (love), freshwater and it's 3 plains can be farmed. Lot of hills there such that it is going to be a kraftwork with minimal effort. Marble for oracle is just a bonus to be honest.

later on 2 east of dear is a clear winner picking up another coastal fish minimal tundra. Is coastal, has fresh water and snags that stray flood plain with minimal overlap to capital. hammer weak but well capital and marble town are hammer heavy so no problem.

Cheers!
-Liq

It will take a couple of hours, before i can play... (It's 8:00 in the moring here, must work first )

Killing Rosie sounds good. A pity he's a bit out of reach for a rush right now . I can't stay his complacent mug.

2N of marble will not have fresh water - a games oddity imo - the tiles cornering a rivers delta do have water, but those cornering the source do not...
Still not a bad spot.

The deer site is good as well, but i would prefer settling towards Rosie first - depending on what's in the fog, of course - if there is just a lot of desert, we will - generously - let him have it, but seeing the jungle around his capital i expect the area to be green and juicy.

I would prefer to cottage the FP's and just farm the corn - the site is good enought on food as it is.

ahh a shame about the river.

As for deer, that's a total back burner filler town. That it eats up all the usable tiles so perfectly is why I mentioned it.

yeah rex towards FDR. 2 north of marble does that well enough.

Feel free to go 30 turns as it's a ton of hitting enter.

as for farming the FP's mass settlers whiped was my reasoning.

Cheers!
-Liq

i would like to joi nthis SG! im currently struggling at monarch difficulty in my SP games.