SGFN-05: India Stomps the World

TheOverseer714

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I have decided to do the actual game on its own thread, since I can't rename the brainstorming thread. This will be the set-up page.

India is always the "peacenik" tribe in most games, until they backstab you at the worst possible moment. For this game, I want India to be an out and out war-monger, to be an in the face, kick your backside kind of civilization. The intended Victory condition will be either Domination or Conquest, though all VCs will be enabled. (Have to give the AI a chance to beat us) We will play a modified Non-Oscillating War(NOW) variant, which means we fight each civilization we contact to extinction, in order of contact, before moving on to our next enemy.

Current Roster:

1: TheOverseer714=> waiting longer
2: Optional=> sometime soon
3: ThinkTank=> someday next month
4: Jorgo Mono=> just played
5: Anaxagoras=>up
6: Northen Wolf=>on deck
7: Rodent=> warming up
8: akk47=> waiting
 
Rules for this variant: Blatant Rip-off from GMA-02, thanks to GmaHarriet. There was no way I could make these any more concise, and they are all great guidelines for any game of Civ3.

We will play as the Indians in a variant on the Non-Oscillating War. The basic framework is taken from Arathorn’s War Academy article, though I have edited out the parts that will not apply to this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arathorn: “Comprehensive Guide to Variants”
Non-Oscillating War (NOW): . . . . [edited]. . . .As each is eliminated, the next must be declared on before the end of the turn. Other wars are allowed, and alliances are encouraged. Sandbagging or not finishing off a defeated foe simply to not go to war with the next one on the list is illegal.. . . . [edited]

We will change this variant as follows:
The growth of our empire dictates the beginning of our War to end all wars. When we get 5 cities built, we must immediately declare war on our first opponent. This will be determined by order of contact, i.e., the first civ we meet will be that opponent.

Once a civ is targeted for elimination, we may not have peace with them. They must be eliminated. At all times after the beginning of the first war, we must have at least one civ targeted for elimination. Other wars with “non-targeted” civs are allowed. Once one Target Civ is eliminated, the next civ we contacted after the first civ becomes the new Target Civ and war must be declared by the end of the turn. Rinse and repeat until we win.

Timelines: 48 to grab, 144 after that to play. (7 days total) I expect it will move more quickly than that, but that guarantees weekend days in everyone’s turnsets.

Turnsets: The first player’s turnset will be 20 turns and 10 for each player’s set thereafter. If turns become longer in the later game we may go to smaller sets.

Other rules of SGFN05:

Rule #1 of SGFN05: We're all friends here. We will learn as much from our mistakes as from our successes. Criticism of your turnset or questioning your decisions is not a personal attack. Don't use it as one, don't take it as one. This is also a Democracy, any major decisions like non targeted war declarations by us, Rights of Passage, Mutual Protection Pacts and what techs we pursue should be voted on by the team. This is not to say that you have no say so, on the contrary. What powers you do have are mostly the same as solo games, just nothing that will turn us onto a damaging path that the rest of the team would not agree to. Use your common sense.

Rule #2: Detailed logs. We can't spot mistakes unless we can see what's been done. Granted, we can't all be CommandoBob, but the whole team needs to be able to make sense of your turnset. (NOTE: CB, you've become famous for your logs. )

Rule #3: There are no stupid questions. If you're in the middle of your turnset and either: (a) realize that you're in over your head; or (b) have hit a crossroads that needs a group decision, stop and ask. Discussion is greatly encouraged.

Rule #4: When in doubt on cheats, exploits or bugs, consult. If you can find someone online to ask, great. In the absence of that, I like to use GOTM rules as a guide. They are always accessible, even if no other team members are online. If they need modification or if we decide not to use one of those rules, I'll put it in the informational post once a decision has been reached. GOTM rules can be found here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/rules.php

Rule #5: Have fun. I hope everyone enjoys this one and learns lots.

And Bede’s rules - I don't expect any conflict between Bede's rules and the GOTM, but if there is one, please follow Bede's rules:

Rule #6: No false peace treaties. Pointy stick research is a long and honorable tradition but breaking a peace treaty secured with technology and installment payments before the treaty has run its course will not be allowed. Any treaty secured by gold per turn or resources on our side must be honored for the full twenty turns.

Rule #7: "The trading reputation is golden" say LKendter, and so it is. That means no deliberate act on the player's part that will cause the premature end of any deal involving gold per turn or resources from our side. Losing the "Trade Rep" has consequences that will affect the entire course of the game, and not for the better. Being unable, ever again, to buy tech for gold per turn or resources, or supplying resources for a lump sum payment, changes the dynamics of the game so much that what had been a game of building, diplomacy and warfare, becomes a game of war or rumors of war, unending. I can play that sort of game, at Deity, and win, but I don't like to; it takes way too many options off the table.

Unfortunately the game does not recognize the difference between random events and player actions when considering the impact of a broken trade route. So volcanic eruptions can destroy a road and break a deal, barbarian galleys appearing on a coastline can break a trade route, war not involving the two principals in a deal can break a trade route, and the demise of one of the parties to a deal can break a trade route. So when considering a resources or gold per turn deal for cold cash, World Maps, or technology, look around carefully and make sure those risks are minimal

Rule #8: RoP rape is not a permitted tactic, nor will the use of RoP's or scouts to deny a resource to an opponent by parking a unit on it before it can be roaded.

Rule #9: No worker automation, ever, and limit the use of go-to orders to situations that are detailed in the notes to the save. It is really annoying to press enter on the first turn of a set and have little figures scampering all over the landscape. It is even more annoying to chase them down and turn them off.
 
As the game has progressed, we met everyone and thus created this:

Hit list:
1. Germany
2. Babylon
3. Greeks
4. Aztecs
5. Portuguese
6. Iroquois
7. Vikings


As of this time, Germany and Babylon are gone and the Greeks and Portuguese are well on their way.
 
I have finished the first turn-set, and things went very well, we have our first contact and a second city. Here is the turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-Flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Open the save, look things over.

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Move the settler 1 west, confirming a second cow and finding game also. Food everywhere! Move worker north to cow to explore.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 1, 3950 BC: Move worker to second cow, and lo, we have another cow!
Delhi settled. =>warrior. Choose Writing, set tech slider to 20%.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 2, 3900 BC: Start watering the cow.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 3, 3850 BC: :sleep:

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 4, 3800 BC: :sleep:

IBT: Delhi Warrior=>Warrior.

Turn 5, 3750 BC: First warrior sent SE to begin exploring.

IBT: Worker01 finishes irrigating cow.

Turn 6, 3700 BC: Move warrior01 SE of Delhi, finds another cow. Worker01 begins road.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 7, 3650 BC: Move Warrior01 east and finds 2 Ivory tiles and a goody hut on a river! So far, this map is pretty.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 8, 3600 BC: Move Warrior01 north to begin a spiral.

IBT: Worker01 finishes road.

Turn 9, 3550 BC: Move worker01 to Irrigate the next cow.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 10, 3500 BC: Warrior01 tops mountain and sees…another cow. Fortune has blessed us, that’s 7 cows in the vicinity of our capital.

IBT: Delhi Warrior=>Settler.

Turn 11, 3450 BC: Move Warrior03 south to scout that direction.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 12, 3400 BC: Scout warriors find nothing of note.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 13, 3350 BC: Warrior03 steps onto a mountain and finds Wheat and another goody hut.

IBT: Worker finishes watering cow.

Turn 14, 3300 BC: Scout warriors find nothing of note. Begin road on cow tile.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 15, 3250 BC: Warrior03 finds Spices and a coast south of our capital. Raise lux to 10% to prevent riots at Delhi.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 16, 3200 BC: Warrior03 finds 2 more Spices.

IBT: Delhi Settler=>Warrior.

Turn 17, 3150 BC: Where to put the settler? I choose to send it northwest, to get more cows worked. Next settler can get the Ivory. Warrior01 finds a coast, Warrior03 finds a 4th Spices tile .

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 18, 3100 BC: Scout warriors find nothing of note.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 19, 3050 BC: Meet target number 1, Germany. They are up Bronze Working, Masonry, Pottery, and Warrior Code, we are up Ceremonial Burial. No trades possible at this time. Moving the settler into position reveals a goody hut.

IBT: :sleep:

Turn 20, 300 BC: Bombay settled=>warrior.
Settling popped the goody hut and gave us Warrior Code!
Spoiler :


It also almost doubled our income.
I trade Ceremonial Burial, 80 gold, and 4 gpt for Pottery. This will be our only deal with them ever, as within 30-40 turns, we will have to declare war on them.

Cities:12
Delhi: Size 1, growth in 1, Granary in 17 turns.
Bombay: Size 1, growth in 10, Warrior in 4 turns.

Civilian units:
Workers 1

Military units:
Warriors 3

Contacts: 3
Germany-Target #1-Peace(We must declare war when 3 more cities are settled).

Research
Writing, 31 turns at +3gpt

Sliders
9/1/0


Here is a picture of our immediate area:

The save:
 
I had a ook at the save. Wow, that is a lot of food bonuses (though also a lot of plains). And 2 luxes to be grabbed. I think we nee a dotmap, I'll post one later. Like this start!
 
That's a promising opening set, Overseer!
Thinktank, thanks for that dotmap. Looks Ok that. I would probably play it safe and take the red dot first, to secure the Ivory. An AI settler can come out of nowhere. Or in this case an AI warrior could get lucky with that hut, popping a settler or a town. That would take the Ivory away from us.
 
Here is a proposed roster, we will almost certainly juggle it around as more information becomes available, so don't be upset as to the order, it will certainly change:

1: TheOverseer714=> just played
2: Optional=> up
3: ThinkTank=> on deck
4: Jorgo Mono=>warming up
5: Anaxagoras=> waiting
6: Northen Wolf=> waiting longer
7: Rodent=> waiting even longer
8: akk47=>we'll get here eventually
9: Doug Lefelhocz=> someday this month
 
Black seems a bit distant to me, if it is 1 tile closer, it can share Bombay and yellow dots cows for quick growth as needed. The rest all look fine. I think build the warrior in Bombay, then a barracks and then archers for a long time. It can be our armory city. If we follow ThinkTank's order of settlement (which I agree with, maybe swapping yellow and red), green dot is our war city. Build that and we go after Germany.
 
I'm newbie but:

* Move black dot one tile nearer (south-west???) to Bombay, defense bonus is not that important.

*Move white tile one left (west?), it would then be connected with Delhi(1 turn movement), be on same side of river and would get river bonus (aqua. thingy).

Rest of the dots seem fine to me.

And blue dot should be next settler target, to 'secure' spice.

Just an opinion. If those ideas are bad/not acceptable, why?
 
Spoiler :
2950BC: warrior03 NE (I'm sending him back home in a loop, and won't be mentioning him anymore hereafter).
warrior01 East.
2900BC: warrior01 East.
IBT: Barbarian pops up on mountain just west of Ivory.
Nineveh pops up just north of warrior01.
2850BC: Trade with Hammurabi: we give Alphabet, we get Bronze Working and 10 gold. That's all he's got.
warrior01 East.
IBT: Barbarian disappears again south, in the fog of war.
2800BC: warrior01 NE.
Bombay finishes warrior, builds a worker next. Warrior stays put.
2750BC: warrior01 East onto hill.
2710BC: warrior01 SE.
Delhi reaches pop3; lux slider put at 10%.
2670BC: warrior01 East, finds salt water coast.
Bombay finishes worker, builds a barracks next.
2630BC: warrior01 SE.
2590BC: warrior01 South.
Delhi finishes granary, builds settler next.
2550BC: warrior01 South.

I've finished my first ever turnset in an SG, Yo!
Most noteworthy things that happened this set: We met Hammurabi! He'll be next on the list.
Notes for my successor: Beware there was a Barbarian warrior popping up earlier on south, on the mountain just next to the Ivory.
Delhi could have a settler in 3 turns; I was gonna put the new citizen on the irrigated floodplains, accepting the desease risk. I'm not a good at calculating ahead with settler factories; if you want to change the build, please feel free to do so.

About the black dot: Yes, I would probably also put that 1 tile closer. And yes, putting the blue dot on the river somehow.
It looks like my successor gets to decide whether to go for yellow or red first!
 
Wow, that was a fast couple of turnsets! Love the start, though. Play order looks fine, Overseer. Play in the first sets looks fine, too. My only comment would be that, per the other thread, the trade of Alphabet may have been premature. I only saw one trade logged. Did we trade it around, or only to Hammurabi? Do the Germans have it, yet? Goody-hutting WC is great news!

I need to check the save itself to comment on the dot map. I expect I will favor an adjustment or two, but I'll get into more detail on that when I check the save details tonight.

What a start!
 
I only saw one trade logged. Did we trade it around, or only to Hammurabi?
The Germans already had Alphabet when Overseer met them. I did remember you having a preference for waiting with the trade until at least one other civ had it. As the Germans already had it, and it didn't look likely that we were gonna meet more civs soon, I traded.
I could have been a bit more explanatory here.
 
The Germans already had Alphabet when Overseer met them.

Ah, you're right. I didn't read carefully enough, and I haven't actually opened the save yet. We got what we could for it, and we beat the Germans to the punch. Excellent. Good call on your part, and sorry I wasn't paying attention.

The more I look at the pictures of the start, the more amazing it is. A boatload of food and two luxes within shouting distance. As long as we are efficient tacticians, this has the potential to be a very good game.
 
I think the Ivory could be hooked up easier, so that should be our first luxury hooked up. I think next settler should go for yellow, we need productive cities up ASAP, and even though red gets us the Ivory, it will be slow growing. We also need some more workers, so at some point we might time a worker from Bombay to finish with the food box full(on growth) to not lose too many citizens. With all the food we have around, we need a worker factory also, to get this beautiful land productive. Looks good, nice turns Optional:thumbsup:
 
The trap that lies open for us, with so much food around, is that we'll grow, grow, grow, but that our military can't keep up.
With that Ivory, I expect one of our cities will start on a prebuild for the Statue of Zeus soon. With a couple of other cities building settlers and workers at the same time, where is our military gonna come from?
Bombay will produce military units soon, but I think we need at least one other town doing the same thing.
I don't see us being ready to send a stack of archers direction Germany when we have to declare war; we will probably have to let them come first. That's Ok, but we need to be sure we've got some Sauerkraut for them.

Question: Will we buy an embassy in Berlin the turn before we plump down our 5th town, to get more info about them?
 
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