NO-1: Tree huggers of the world unite

NO-1

Difficulty = Monarch (or maybe emperor, depends on team)
map = Fractal
climate: Arid
World size: Standard
civ = up for discussion or perhaps just random
speed = Normal

Variant:
you may never chop a forest and as soon as the forest preserve improvement is unlocked all our forests must be made into preserves.
Tiles adjacent to forests cannot be improved unless it has a resource (or it is impossible for forests to spread there, i.e flood plains), in order to allow the forest to spread.
You may build cities on forests, you may chop jungles.

Roster:
NoChildren
Tatran
Quechua
Refar

This sounds very hard. You'll have almost no tile improvements and can't hurry production via chopping. Also, as far as I know, roads lessen the chance of a forest spread so these should be built with care.

NoChildren said:

you may never chop a forest and as soon as the national park improvement is unlocked all our forests must be made into national parks.

Click to expand...

You probabely mean that all forests must be turned into forest preserves after scientific method has been discovered? National park is a national wonder unlocked by biology.

I'll definitely lurk this one, I can't play as I'm already in enought other SGs

Can you chop jungle Because the rules only say forest

Refar said:

Can you chop jungle Because the rules only say forest

Click to expand...

yes, you may chop jungle. as far as i know there grow no trees there

mystyfly said:

This sounds very hard. You'll have almost no tile improvements and can't hurry production via chopping. Also, as far as I know, roads lessen the chance of a forest spread so these should be built with care.


You probabely mean that all forests must be turned into forest preserves after scientific method has been discovered? National park is a national wonder unlocked by biology.

I'll definitely lurk this one, I can't play as I'm already in enought other SGs

Click to expand...

you're correct, of course i meant preserves...

and yes i suspect this will be really hard, i kind of hope we start near a big jungle or get lucky with some flood plains. it will be very hard to get any commerce otherwise

I wouldn't mind to set game speed to Epic.

The leader should at least have the Fin trait.
I think Willem van Oranje is the best choice.
Extra hammers (dikes) from watertiles and no monuments are needed.

i usually play standard, but i'm fine with epic... financial might be a good idea, it might be too hard otherwise

lurker: Why fin? You can't build cottages, and if trees are covering the plains tiles or grassland with river, you don't get Fin's bonus. The only reason you want Fin is to play in archipelago type of map, which defeats the variant anyway. IMHO, I would think Philo is best and go specialist happy.

Cottages can be built and the forest preserves give 1 extra commerce.

I'd be interested if you'll have a SG noob. Stepping up the difficulty would be fine by me if others are comfortable.

I wish I could see the map before picking the leader, but financial would be nice for water tiles if we're poor on land. A resourceless UU is a plus, and imperialistic would help avoid losing key city sites (which could be a disaster with these rules). Mansa, Victoria, or Suleiman (if we go philo, I wouldn't count on having a lot of food though) would be my choices - but I'd be open to others, I've never played Willem actually.

edit- rereading the rules, we can improve resources and floodplains next to forest, meaning we are more flexible than I thought. Really any leader is fine by me.

You're in Quechua.
financial might be good for those few tiles we will be able to cottage. i think you're right about philosophical that we won't have very much food so it will be hard to run very many specialists. but i think that either financial or philosophical trait is the way to go.

Lurker comment: I checked and
Fin+Environmentalism+forest preserve+national park+River happy+ Levee= 1F+2H+4C per river square.

It's not a whole lot, so I wish you all luck

Nictel said:

Lurker comment: I checked and
Fin+Environmentalism+forest preserve+national park+River happy+ Levee= 1F+2H+4C per river square.

It's not a whole lot, so I wish you all luck

Click to expand...

Oh come on, by the time Forest Preserve is enabled there will be a lot of nicely land cleaned off by the AI, so how much/few yield a Forest Preserve gives is really not the problem here.

The breaking point will be somewhere much earlier, where that nice clean land will need to be taken from a AI's cold death hands, without chopping a army / having a solid economy.


I would play BTW, if there are still slots. Just finished another SG

awesome Refar. i will start a game as soon as we are agreed on difficulty level.
i think we might be able to pull this off on emperor, but it will be very tough though.
as for a leader i don't really have a preference, but i think we should go with one with either fin or phi.
how does everybody feel about gamespeed? should we go with epic as Tatran suggested?

i've also realized that the ai cities we will take with the forest cleared will be what wins this one for us


ps. i would gladly accept one or perhaps even two more players. i feel a roster of 5-6 is pretty reasonable

Rule clarification :
Forests need to grow everywhere when possible + they can only be chopped when there's a resource underneath it.
Exceptions are camps, a fur or deer camp must have a forest first.
Btw, I've never seen forests on an ivory tile.
Tiles adjacent to a forest tile (horizontal and/or vertical) must stay unimproved.
When there's an improvement it needs to be destroyed. (IIRC, you can't pillage your own roads).

Tatran said:

When there's an improvement it needs to be destroyed. (IIRC, you can't pillage your own roads).

Click to expand...

Yes.

I am fine with epic and any leader. I can handle myself on emperor, prefer palying on monarch most of the time tho.

A Religion + Prophet at some point - must not be, but i think could even be the very early one - might come in handy for boosting the early economy. Spreading it widely would give us both - some - safety from diplo and gold from shrine.

a shrine would sure be nice, if were going for an early one i we have to start with mysticism, this limits us to the following leaders:
Pacal II: Mysticism, Mining. Financial, Expansive
Charlemagne: Mysticism, Hunting. Imperialistic, Protective
Justinian I: The Wheel, Mysticism. Imperialistic, Spiritual
Saladin: Mysticism, The Wheel. Protective, Spiritual
Montezuma: Mysticism, Hunting. Aggressive, Spiritual
Boudica: Mysticism, Hunting. Agressive, Charismatic
Brennus: : Mysticism, Hunting. Spiritual, Charismatic
Huayna Capac: Agriculture, Mysticism. Financial, Industrious
Gandhi: Mysticism, Mining. Spiritual, Industrious
Asoka: Mysticism, Mining. Organized, Spiritual
Wang Kon: Mysticism, Mining. Financial, Protective
Isabella: Fishing, Mysticism. Expansive, Spiritual

in my opinion everyone with protective has to go. I'm not planning on defending

i kind of like huyana, if we start with agriculture our first worker can build some farms while we are are aiming for an early religion. He is also financial, which might help us.

i wouldn't mind playing with willem either as Tatran suggested, but then we might have to shoot for a later religion. but a beeline for CoL with oracle should be pretty easy if we commit to it.

regarding level, i'm still undecided. perhaps monarch will be hard enough (how do you feel about this Quechua and Tatran?).

i thought about forest spreading as well, that might get very hard in the end. especially when we have built preserves everywhere. perhaps we shouldn't be forced to pillage improvements next to tiles where the forest has spread.

improvements next to forests in conquered lands must be pillaged as soon ass we can spare troops though!

The first time I see there's no Creative leader who starts with Mysticism.

I prefer a leader/civ to help our weak economy, Org, Fin or Cre.
The Dutch are the best once we've reached the industrial era.

Monarch level is fine with me.

Tatran said:

The first time I see there's no Creative leader who starts with Mysticism.

I prefer a leader/civ to help our weak economy, Org, Fin or Cre.
The Dutch are the best once we've reached the industrial era.

Monarch level is fine with me.

Click to expand...

yeah, i know! it's crazy, just realized that as well when i made that list.

if no one objects i will start a game sometime tomorrow, either morning or lunch at monarch level with Willem, i do like those dike's.
and i think we should aim for founding Confucianism via the oracle so we get an early religion as Refar suggested.

Monarch is cool if everyone prefers that to emperor.

I don't want to commit to an oracle strategy right away, let's roll a start first.

Some clarifications:
Can we build roads on forest?
Can we build roads next to forest? (trade network issues here)
If forest spreads next to our improvements do we self-pillage?