Relics

I've posted this idea several times before, but I thought I would bring it out in the open. Essentially it replaces the current systems of shrines with relics. They would have the same effect as shrines, but you could put them in any city with a "cathedral". The real fun would be in the middle ages, when crusaders show up.They could take relics to any other city with a cathedral, creating awesome capture the flag gameplay. If you wanted you could even commit a bit of Simony. The only relics I have any ideas for are the Ark of the Covenant for Judaism, and the Crown of Thorns for Christianity (although they'll probably go with the Holy Grail, if only for the sake of obscure Monty Python references, because NOBODY EXPECTS THE OBSCURE MONTY PYTHON REFERENCES! ) Any constructive criticisms or ideas for other religions are welcome.
Edit: On the other hand, maybe it would be better as a random event. That way, if you're a devoutly Taoist civ, and the evil empire next door is Jewish, and you just happen to stumble upon the Ark of the Covenant, you can expect some crusaders at you're door step. Of course, this would mean we would have to hind something else for our prophets to do.

Holy Grail all the WAY!! maybe a dan brown version though.

Bump! Come on, I want to hear what you people think of this!

Good Idea. I like it. Would it just be a generic "relic" for each religion or would each religion have it's own?

Edit: Nevermind the question, I reread the OP.

Edit again: I like the Ark idea and I think the Grail is better for christianity. Those are the only two religions I really know a lot about though so I'm not much help on the other major religions.

For Islam, it is the Kaaba. The Black Stone that they circle around in prayer.

Taoism Tao te Ching one of the scriptures of Taoism

The reason I chose the Crown of Thorns was because it has a very interesting history. Plus, there is a tangible relic of the Crown, whereas the Grail is more of legendary object. Of course, if the Firaxians actually like seeing juvenile humour on the CfC, then they could go with the Holy Prepuce. (Wiki it if you like, I'm not in the mood to explain.)

Heh, that one was in Medieval II Total War. Its effect was: "Increases the chance of having children".

Total War had some other Christian relics too (like the holy grail) and possibly some islamic ones as well, but I don't remember.

I'd like a system like in the Vikings mod where treasure would appear somewhere on the map and whoever brings it home gets some gold.

I like the relics idea, but there should be more then one. I think maybe 4-6 for each religion.

Also, for religions, there should be various degrees of "religiousness". You already see this with pious A.I., for example, how much having a different(or the same) religion affects diplomacy between the two nations.

I think it should be based on a 0-5 scale that you can choose when you start a game, and is determined for the A.I. based on that leader's personality. The scale should be as follows:

0: No religious influence. Basically, these leaders don't care what your state religion is, for good or for bad. Religious civics weakened slightly (around 25%). Paganism civic boosts culture slightly. Free Religion gives extra research.

1-2: Slight religious influence. Will only get a +/- 1 or at most, +/-2 in the case of conflicting holycities. Religious civics normal. Will not declare war only because of a different religion.

3-4: Very religious. Will get between +/- 2 and +/- 4 for religious diplomacy. Gains extra benefits from religious civics, but penalties for having Paganism.

5: Extremely Religious. Will often wage war to try and convert other civilizations. Severe penalties for having Paganism or Free Religion. effects of other religious civics increased by almost 50%.

^So long as Persia isn't going to declare holy war on the Inca 800 years before they can actually reach them, It could work well if properly implemented. (Although number 5 may be a tad much.) On a different note, I've realized a little flaw in my idea: Where I you going to put the Relics before you get Cathedrals? Perhaps any religious building could work, but you might get a hefty bonus for using cathedrals.

One thing to consider, many people consider their holy artifacts as just that, sacred items that should not appear in a game or if so, done correctly.

warpstorm said:

One thing to consider, many people consider their holy artifacts as just that, sacred items that should not appear in a game or if so, done correctly.

Click to expand...

Honestly, that was one of the reasons I came up with this in the first place. I felt that the shrines were not properly implemented, for example it was prophesied that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. In Civ 4, his nativity is more likely to take place in some random Incan city. Anyhow, poll added, sorry for the bump.

There was something similar in Alpha Centauri. Alien Artifacts I think they were called. You could connect them to labrtatories in your cities. They were cool. I support the idea of relics if they are similar.

Randomnerd10 said:

Edit: On the other hand, maybe it would be better as a random event.

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Some of us don;t want random events under any circumstances.

That way, if you're a devoutly Taoist civ, and the evil empire next door is Jewish, and you just happen to stumble upon the Ark of the Covenant, you can expect some crusaders at you're door step.

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When are you envisioning the things becoming visible, then ? It makes sense to me that relics should only become visible once you get the appropriate religion, so if you are a devourt Taoist civ who has not discovered Judaism, you might not be able to see what the neighbouring civ is actually after.

good point, at least one of your cities should have that religion

I think this is quite a good idea, but not fantastic, I voted for "it's ok"

^What specifically would you improve?

Maybe you could make a capturable (like a settler) barb unit (replaces warrior) that is invisible except to certain units (like a submarine) and can build these special shrines (like a prophet).

Why not have both a "relic" concept and a "holy ground" concept?

1. Relic: this drives the pilgrimage revenue associated with the present "shrine" of each of the religions.

2. Holy Ground: this should be a modifier or multiplier important to the members of a religion. For example, Jerusalem for all the monotheists; Mecca for Muslims; and so on.

Relics can be transported, but holy ground cannot. If an enemy is approaching, a defender should be able to move sacred relics out and move them to another city. That other city will continue to generate the GPT that the other city did when the relic was there. BUT: because the relic is not on holy ground, there should be perhaps a -1 happy modifier in cities with the religion in question, saying "Our sacred relics are not in their rightful place!" This anger would go away when their kingdom is at war with the occupier of the sacred ground. This way a civ would still be motivated to hang onto holy ground, but not to the devastating cost of losing it the way a shrine loss works in present civ.

TBH we also need a "unique religion" concept such that slow-teching civs aren't guaranteed to be atheist the entire game. For example:

1. Druidism for the Celts
2. Lutheranism for the Germans
3. Church of England for the English
4. Huguenots for the French
...and so on.

Skallagrimson said:

TBH we also need a "unique religion" concept such that slow-teching civs aren't guaranteed to be atheist the entire game. For example:

1. Druidism for the Celts
2. Lutheranism for the Germans
3. Church of England for the English
4. Huguenots for the French
...and so on.

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aaagh no no no no no.

OK, let me be a bit more constructive here. If founding a religion is going to be a drastic advantage, what I would prefer is more religions, and to make it more difficult to found more than one of them, which could probably be done with, say, tech-tree rearrangements,

I'm also inclined to wonder about relics, in the Christian sense at least, being things you infrequently spontaneously generate every now and again in a random location. And would probably most likely then want to move somewhere more useful.