Diplomacy and Tech Trading

Immaculate

Immaculate

unerring
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
7,623
I don't know much about the leader personalities in FFH, but Valledia doesn't trade her techs even at friendly. They are red-lined and the mouse-over says something like "we just don't like you enough". Really? Really? Because our nobles just got married and we donated a huge wedding gift... doesn't that count for anything? Your divination tech looks so tasty... and don't you want to learn deception; its all the rage.

Okay, so obviously each personality determines how likely a particular leader is to trade. Where can i get that info or can one of the mod-monkeys hanging around here post it?

Its worth knowing just so i can plan who is worth sucking up to and who i can let go hang. Is Valledia the new Toku?

i.
 
This is quite a common thing. I've had like 4 Friendly civs in one game who didn't wanna trade techs. And oftentimes, the AI jus ain't interested in your techs. Therefore, they red theirs out so you won't ask.
 
Each leader has different dispositions to trading.

On average, good leaders are most likley to trade, evils, then neutrals. There is no Mansa Musa or Tokugawa in FfH, but some leaders don't like to trade in my experience-

Amelanchier
Valledia
Sandalphon
Faeryl Viconia
Rebryn Arbandi

The actual information on weights to trade is found in the XML, though I don't know where.

Basically, for good trading, suck up to good civs.
 
It's all in Civ4LeaderHEadInfos.xml

Valledia is:

<TechRefuseAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_FRIENDLY</TechRefuseAttitudeThreshold>


I think that means you need to be better than friendly with her before she'll trade techs.
 
Based on what Dr. Stalker has posted, i looked up the leaders' tech trade likelyhoods.

Sabathiel's tech refuse threshold is 'annoyed'.
Capria is 'annoyed'. So is Decius.

Varn its 'annoyed'.

Ethne and Einion its 'annoyed'.

Basium its 'annoyed'.

Garrim its 'annoyed'.
Same for Beeri.

Kardith lords its 'none'. Does that make him the mansu of the game?

Amelanchier and Arendel its 'annoyed'. Thessa its 'cautious'.

Arturus its 'annoyed'. Kandros its 'annoyed'.

Sandalaphon its cautious.

Falamar its 'furious'. I've also observed that he usually makes a good tech trading partner. Hanna its 'annoyed'.

Cassiel its 'annoyed'.

Koun, its 'annoyed'.

Tasunuke, its 'furious'. I didn't realize that he should be such a good tech trader. Rhoanna its 'annoyed'.

Valledia its 'friendly'. So basically, she'll never trade with you. How can you get above friendly? Dain its the same. These poor amurites are destined to be backwater civs in every game?

Charadon its 'furious'. If he could ever manage to learn how to tech, he would likely be willing to trade it i take it. Mahala its 'annoyed'.

Keelyn its 'furious'. Perpentech its 'furious'. I guess the Baseraph are just more likely to be willing to trade a tech.

Jonas, its 'annoyed'; same for Sheelba.

Faeryl, its 'annoyed'.

Alexis, its 'annoyed'. My own experience is that she's a pretty good tech trader though. Maybe just because he techs fast. Same for Flauros.

Tebryn its 'cautious', so he would need to be at pleased to trade with you. Its the same for Os-Gabella.

Hyborem, its 'annoyed'.

Auric, its 'annoyed'.


So, based on these findings, the best tech trader (none) is:
Kuriotes (he gets the Mansu Mansa award!).

This is followed by (furious):
Falamar
and Tasunuke
and Charadon
and the Balseraph leaders.

The next category is made up of (annoyed) and consists of most leader.
too many to list.

Those in the second worst category (cautious)
Thessa
Sandalophan
Tebryn
and Os-Gabella.

The worst, as we knew, are (worse then Toku?):
the Amurite leaders.

Hope this is of some use to someone when they are choosing what side to take in a 3rd party war (ie... always beat up on the Amurites when asked by a popular civ)
 
Immaculate said:
Hope this is of some use to someone when they are choosing what side to take in a 3rd party war (ie... always beat up on the Amurites when asked by a popular civ)
Click to expand...

LOL! Ain't it the truth?
 
So there are no leaders that will refuse at pleased, but trade at friendly?
 
The Amurites will. They're tech horders.
 
That's wat we are sayin. The Thresholds are wat you have to be above to trade techs with for a certain civ. Since there is nothin above Friendly, the Amurites WON'T trade with you. Ever. The only way to get their techs is by permanent alliance.
 
I think they have to have better than there threshold attitude towards you in order to trade. That means that the Amurite Leaders would have to have better than Friendly (which does not exist) in order to trade, and that no one will trade at friendly who won't trade at pleased.

I find such hording annoying, so I'll probably reduce their thresholds by at least one.
 
Am I the only one who has turned off tech trading permanently ? It's too much against my play style (I turtle, so am quite late meeting other civs), and at the higher difficulty levels I like (with large or huge maps and a lot of civs) mean that I'm hopelessly backward by the time I do meet them... Plus, I don't like the micromanagement of regularly checking all civs to see if they have something to trade :(

Although it's good to know that I am still better at it than the Amurite AI.
 
I personally like the 'No Tech Brokering' option, and use it exclusively in my FfH games. For those who don't know, it means that any civs can only trade techs that they have researched themselves. It helps prevent a tech dogpile if you are at war with a couple different camps, and I like being able to trade a tech away knowing that the rest of the civs won't all have it in a turn or two.
 
What annoys me more is the "we fear you becoming too advanced." I do not think I have ever seen that in vanilla BtS. I usually trade for any of the techs not directly on my path.
 
Halancar said:
Am I the only one who has turned off tech trading permanently ? It's too much against my play style (I turtle, so am quite late meeting other civs), and at the higher difficulty levels I like (with large or huge maps and a lot of civs) mean that I'm hopelessly backward by the time I do meet them... Plus, I don't like the micromanagement of regularly checking all civs to see if they have something to trade :(

Although it's good to know that I am still better at it than the Amurite AI.
Click to expand...
No, I do it too, for the same reasons that you state above. Also, I hate it when the AIs trade the tech among themselves before you get a chance to do so.
 
I tend to use No Tech Brokering to stop the all the AIs from sharing everything with each other, but I never turn off tech trading altogether.
 
What annoys me more is the "we fear you becoming too advanced." I do not think I have ever seen that in vanilla BtS.
Click to expand...

It's in there, though I've only managed to see it on the highest difficulties.
 
People here seem to advocate slowing the trade rate. Is this is a popular sentiment?

Also, have people experimented with 'secret codes' to try and slow the tech rate and to formalize particular diplomatic 'cliques'?
 
The problem isn't so much that teching is too fast, as that the AI tends to share its techs much more freely with each other than with humans, leading the human to fall way behind.

The other reason is that it is not fun for you units to become obsolete as soon as they are built. FfH isn't nearly as bad about that as vanilla, but it can still be annoying. I've found that this is best addressed not by slowing the tech rate, but by increasing the minimum city yields. That lets you get things going much faster in the early game, but doesn't do as much once the pace picks up. It is also much better when playing games that start in latter ages.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Lord Lakely
TIMELINE: A Civilization concept by Lord Lakely
6 7 8
Replies
144
Views
5K
Ryansinbela
Ryansinbela
AcaMetis
Nobles' Club 383: Isabella of Spain
Replies
10
Views
710
Nick723
N
gavenkoa
Reasons for AI not trading, like WDWTSTTTJY / WFYABTA & the ways to avoid trade blockade.
Replies
3
Views
606
gavenkoa
gavenkoa
T
I Modified Growth Rates, And Playing Like Civ III Suits Civ 7
Replies
0
Views
415
tman2000
T
AcaMetis
Nobles' Club 378: Shaka of the Zulu
Replies
14
Views
1K
pmarc
P
Back
Top Bottom