Without A Kiss I: Sitting Bull

ViaArete

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Without A Kiss I: Sitting Bull

Welcome to "Without A Kiss." This (hopefully) ongoing series is intended to help the many players out there seeking to make the jump from Noble to Prince. Because the central objective is making the jump (get it? frogs jump; we'll be making the jump to Prince without a kiss... Okay, I'll admit it, titles aren't my strong suit...) to a higher difficulty, the intention is to play games with increasing levels of difficulty. Although most settings will be left as default, map type will be predetermined, and leader choices will be somewhat selective.

I'll be playing through all games and posting updates as regularly as possible. Everyone else (particularly those joining me in the jump) are welcome and encouraged to play along. As usual, please use spoiler tags liberally. Lurkers' and higher-levels players' advice is always beneficial, and greatly appreciated.

With that modest introduction, let's get on with the game.

The leader (chosen randomly this time around) is Sitting Bull:
Spoiler :

SittingBullScreen.gif


SB is PHI/PRO and his UU and UB are

Dog Soldier:
Spoiler :

DogSoldier.gif


and

Totem Pole:
Spoiler :

TotemPole.gif


The settings for the game are as follows:
Bts 3.17 w/Solver's Patch and BUG Mod.
Map Type: Pangea
Difficulty Setting: Prince
Speed: Epic

All Victory conditions and other settings are left at default.

Without further adieu, the start:
Spoiler :

Start.jpg


My thoughts:
Spoiler :
Settle in place. Initial build order: Warrior -> Worker while researching AH for the piggies. After that Mining -> BW; Road -> Pottery. Depending on what we see in the fog in the coming turns, AH may be abandoned more quickly in hopes of spotting copper so we can start getting the Dog Soldiers out. Remember this is Pangea, so we have military access to pretty much anyone we desire :D

Oh, I'll probably move the Warrior 1E.


Okay. That's that. Good luck to those of you who choose to Shadow; thanks in advance to advisers. Depending on the success of this thread, I'm hoping this is the first in a series of glorious victories :cool:.

Round I: Through Bronzeworking.

Round II: Through 950 B.C.
Round III: Through 1180 A.D.
 

Attachments

Nice title ;) Actually why I clicked on this thread. Not the greatest start, only two visible resources and only one food resource.
I agree with your assessment, settle in place followed by AH.
 
Alternate series names:

"Leapfrog"
"We don't need no stinking kisses"
"Warts and all"
"Ribbet"
"Kermit's Revenge"
"Tastes like chicken"
"Amorous Amphibians"

Comments

Settling in place is good. Riverside, coastal, food, gold. All good.

Dog Warriors don't need copper, just the bronze working tech. The resourceless bit is handy. Just be aware that Dog Warriors are not great on offense against the AI, which typically defends cities with archers. However, if you can catch the Prince level AI with warriors in their cities (which sometimes happens), your Dog Warriors will crush them. So at Prince, yeah, a Dog Warrior rush could work.

Techwise, the Wheel is not a huge priority -- you really don't need to connect your sheep yet and the gold will be connected via the river. I suggest you take Mining, Bronze Working, Hunting, and Archery. Stonehenge is very handy for the Native Americans and it's pretty easy to chop out, especially on Prince. You may want to do it before you settle city #2 though.
 
People kind of complained about it before in NC so I'll ask before doing so: do you mind if players PARTICIPATE in this series at higher levels? I love playing along with forum games, even ones that aren't part of a series (outside of games where I fine-tune my opening decision tree), because it guarantees me at least one other approach in the same game I played. I've learned so much this way, even from games that were submitted at lower difficulties.

If you're fine with it, I can tune the difficulty for myself to emperor and spoiler along, similar to my noble's club appearances (lately anyway, I was actually making this jump at the inception of noble's club myself ;) ).

By the way, that looks like a delicious start. Nothing like the ability to expand extra recklessly due to a power commerce tile, coupled with the fact that you can skip archers because doggies own EVERYTHING barb-related until horse archers, and are resourceless...

My advice before playing this is to expand extra aggressively (you'll be able to afford some extra) - tech AH then to bronze. Go with what you need from there but as usual you'll want pottery and writing quickly and the ability to skip archers early and work a power commerce tile should let you do so.

It might not be the best start ever but I'd take it over many. If the OP clears an emperor level submission here I'll give it a run-through in the next few days!

Note: If you see another commerce resource to settle, this = runaway expansion.

Edit: I like the title. It sounds kind of emo and funny, and I like things like that. It will be interesting when WOAK - izzy or cathy comes out!
 
Settle in place and start building a worker. Research Mining, and mine/work that gold ASAP. That is one nasty start.
 
Instead of playing at higher levels, why not just show them what an emperor game looks like at lower levels.

You could also go 1 NW.

So far, you're near the north, on the eastern end of the big island, and there are two minor outstretches of land to your east that probably don't extend very far (so you can settle them later). You have low food so far (plains/hill sheep are the lowest special food source in the game), a high production capital, with some cottage potential. It's a bad SE capital, but it can churn out stuff.

Your warrior wants to move in a southwesterly direction (aside from looking for some early huts).

Leveraging protective/dog soldiers: you can choke very easily. If you want to stall enemy settling, declare and fortify your archer/dog soldier right next to their capital, then proceed as normal.

Leveraging gold: you can get a semi-expensive tech (iron working, horse riding) in a reasonable amount of time. More likely, you'll use it to support aggressive expansion.
 
Stonehenge is very handy for the Native Americans and it's pretty easy to chop out, especially on Prince. You may want to do it before you settle city #2 though.

On Monarch I would agree. On Prince, settling a second city first will only mildly reduce your chances of snagging the Henge, and it really helps your expansion to get an early start.

It does partly depend on how good you are at wonderwhoring though -- I'm assuming you know the basics of chop-powering and of managing overflow from any whipping you may have to do. A little micromanagement really speeds up the build (and since you just have one city, it's not painful).
 
Do you mind if I post a shadow game in spoilers? (I won't change the level, so it'll be a romp, but probably still fun - and hopefully educational.. - to read.)
 
Note: First round will be coming out soon.

Dog Warriors don't need copper, just the bronze working tech.

Thanks for the heads up. I believe this is my first SB game.

do you mind if players PARTICIPATE in this series at higher levels?

You (and anyone else) are absolutely welcome to participate and post shadow games (use spoilers please).

By the way, that looks like a delicious start.
&
That is one nasty start.

Paulus got this one right... More anon.
Edit: Maybe not... The start is complicated, but I'm no longer ready to commit to it being awfully problematic

Do you mind if I post a shadow game in spoilers? (I won't change the level, so it'll be a romp, but probably still fun - and hopefully educational.. - to read.)

Please do.
 
I played a quick start to a shadow game here, to turn 45 (2875 BC) and BW:
Spoiler Bronze Working and 2875 BC :

A few things about the start that caught my eye:
Low food capital, lots of empty plains/grass, possible strategic resource.
Gold is obviously excellent, we'll power on through the early techs.
Far north, which means we'll need to settle our first cities south to block, also, we might find silver, but likely no gems, and very few calendar resources.

Settled in place and started a worker after seeing that wheat tile, started tech on mining. After the worker I built 3 warriors (first scouted the north and is almost back home, second went south and west) and have a place-holding dog soldier and writing as the placeholder tech until I start again.
The hut in the north popped for 60:gold: and I swung the warrior back around to the south. He popped another hut down there for experience and took Woodsman II. I hope to keep him alive to use as a Woods III Medic III super healer with a GG.
The early religions fell on turns 11 (Buddhism) and 24 (Hindu), and I met both founders.
Huayna Capac, the Buddhist on turn 20, he's in the SE (really the only option :lol:) but I don't see his borders as of yet.
and Ragnar, the Hindu on turn 26, his capital is directly east of ours. There is a land connection to in from both N and S but the north is blocked off by a mountain.

The good news here, is that we'll be able to stir up some trouble between the two of them easily (since we'll have a tech lead, it won't be hard to bribe one or the other.)

Once our worker popped out, he farmed the wheat tile, then mined gold, and finally pastured the sheep. I was thinking of pursuing early IW and a swords rush due to the gold tile and the proximity of Ragnar, but his capital from what we can see, looks pretty mediocre (I still haven't decided).

Only other thing of interest here is meeting Augustus on turn 41, he's far to the east but he appears to block a peninsula off from us, until OB.

Some summary screens:
Known world west:
Civ4ScreenShot0018-1.jpg

Known world east:
Civ4ScreenShot0019-2.jpg

Capital:
Civ4ScreenShot0020-1.jpg


You can see Ragnar's and Augustus' land if you look and the colored resource bubbles.

A save, if anyone is interested:
 

Attachments

I also would like to see TMIT and others who play above prince handle this map. I too made the jump to prince and have advanced by learning from their actions.
 
"Amorous Amphibians"

Amphibious elephants?!

I might play this one. Dog Soldiers don't need resources, eh? Time for some aggressive city settling and rushing before archers.

I have BTS 3.17 patched with Solver's latest patch, but no BUG Mod. I get a runtime error (ie: wrong version) when I try to play this save. :l
 
Here's Round I through BW. I'm actually more optimistic about our start now that I've had the time to sleep on it.

Note: I'm going to use spoilers for now, but I'll be taking them out once others have had a chance to play.

Spoiler :

Initial tech path was what I'd planned: AH, Mining -> BW. Currently researching IW in hopes of revealing some iron nearby (hopefully in the capital's fat cross ;))
Worker actions: Pastured the sheep (sorry about the mistake in the first post; they're not pigs) first then mined the gold. Finished the mine 1 turn before BW finished, so I was able to start chopping immediately after research completed (good timing).

Noteworthy events:
3950 BC: Goodie Hut popped Sailing
3700 BC: Buddhism founded (later found out this was HC)
3650 BC: Found Ragnar to our East -- land access atm blocked by a peak... Not sure if this is to our advantage yet or not.
3575 BC: Reached Pop 2; switched from Warrior to Worker.
3300 BC: Found HC Empire to the south and discovered he founded Buddhism, also encountered Suleiman's Warrior.
3225 BC: Hinduism founded (later found out this was Ragnar)
2975 BC: 3rd Warrior finished (was interrupted by the Worker). Begin building a settler.
2950 BC: Pastured the sheep; began mining gold.
2750 BC: Found Suleiman to the SE, converted to Slavery.
2725 BC: Began researching IW, found Monty's warrior near Suleiman's empire.

Here's the world thus far:
Resources:
ThroughBWResources.jpg

Culture:
ThroughBWCulture.jpg


As you can see, I'm in great danger of being choked into my crappy little spot at the NW of the world. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot desirable land that I see, so this might wind up being some aggressive, military expansion (assuming we can get some iron *crosses fingers*). However, I'm not totally comfortable banking on that resource, so the Settler that I'm working in Cahokia is probably going to be settled shortly after its completion, though I haven't given a whole lot of thought as to where that's going to be, as yet (the best spot, in my view, will capture the horses and jumbos so we can get some warmongering going. The marble is a nice added bonus.)

Speaking of our fine Capital, here's its city screen:
ThroughBWCahokia.jpg


Six hills and a few grassland/river tiles. There's probably a hidden resource somewhere in there, as well. I'm guessing that Cahokia's going to be primarily a production city, but there's a good possibility that it'll be production/commerce hybrid (if it's feasible, I'd like to get Colossus so those ocean tiles are worth something, but I doubt I'll have time to waste on that.)

My plan going ahead:
- Expand! First objective is simply to ensure that I don't get trapped.
- Take out one of these neighboring civs; likely either Ragnar (Edit: This was before I caught my mistake that Ragnar founded Hinduism. It may change the strategy moving forward) or Sulley, with preference given to Sulley. While I'm sort of concerned about the militaristic/aggressive attitudes of my neighbors, I'm more concerned that Sulley's going to block me in with tendency to expand really quickly.
- Work those angry neighbors to my advantage. There's a strong chance I'm going to Buddhism spread to my lands. Hopefully, I can get HC distracted with Monty so I can take the Buddhist holy city and buddy up to remaining, unconverted neighbors.

Mitigating factors:
- Access to Iron
- Spread of religions
- City-Building sites


This looks like it's going to be a real interesting game. I look forward to what your thoughts are, and to see how your game's going should you choose to shadow.
 
I uninstalled BTS and reinstalled it with just Solver's 0.19 patch and it worked fine.

Spoiler :
holy crap look at the neighbors D:
 
@ Jerrymander:

Unless you've got predisposed feelings against it, BUG Mod is worthwhile. Unaffected gameplay + better looking + useful info all over the place.
 
@ Jerrymander:

Unless you've got predisposed feelings against it, BUG Mod is worthwhile. Unaffected gameplay + better looking + useful info all over the place.

I think it's pretty ugly, to be honest. :P
Too many buttons, makes the interface looked cluttered to me. I'd rather take the inefficiency hit. I used to use it.
 
Round II Mini-Update (Approx. 900 BC). Screens and more analysis to come when I'm done with work.

What appeared to be a somewhat woeful start has turned out pretty well. I've played through roughly 900BC and things are getting starting to pick up pace - here are notable events:

Spoiler :


-Settled Poverty Point 1N of Rice.
-IW revealed Iron in Poverty Point's BFC and just outside capital's fat cross.
-This, of course, meant it was time to go to war. I targeted Sulley since I didn't really want to deal with being blocked in, nor his expanding empire. Captured Istanbul and his 2nd city to the north, razed a city to the south, and then signed a peace treaty. I assume he's only got one city left atm, but I only barely managed victory and my army is pretty decimated. I'll likely finish him off before I go in search of my next victim.
-Converted to Buddhism thanks to HC's missionary.



Looking ahead:

Spoiler :

After I finish mopping up Sulley, I'll turn my attention to HC, I think. Though he's currently an ally, the following reasons play into my decision:
-He's basically boxed in by me. I'd rather fight him that way, than have him try to bust out.
-He's the only other Buddhist on the map so far (but I think I've spotted his missionaries spreading it out more), so I'm not likely to take hard diplo hits.
-He's got a Holy City that I'd love to shrine ;)

I'm currently researching Math and will go straight to construction so I can bring some cats into the HC war. I have enough health resources, and happiness isn't a problem yet (I also have an extra iron that could be traded away, if necessary, and a couple of Wine and banana tiles that will be possible to work soon.)


Like I said, more to come (in a few hours). In the meantime, enjoy. If you'd like to take a look at the game right away, I've attached the save.

View attachment WAKI SB 2.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
Is this a large map, because that would kill my laptop.
 
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